Euro Squad for Next Year

[OrangeRab 2,875]

14 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

If we replace a squad player who is foreign trained, with a squad player who is domestically trained, then it frees up a slot for another player to come in who is more of an essential player.

Right now in my squad in the OP, Colak is the only recognised striker, and he was intended to be our backup.

We could go into next season in Europe with Colak as our only striker.

Or we could sell Colak and go into Europe with his replacement as our only striker.

If we however replace Colak as our backup striker with someone like Nisbet or Shankland and then use the slot that becomes available to bring in a new first choice striker, increasing the squad depth and improving our striking quality.

 

But that’s just because you haven’t done your 17 right/optimised.
 

For example, at the moment you have Tillman, Cantwell, Lawrence, Dowell, Lowry all playing for arguably one position?

You could easily just not include Dowell and then you have a slot for a striker. (Or if Tillman doesn’t sign).

Or you could easily drop Lundstrum. As you have Cifuentes, Raskin, Jack and then Lawrence, Cantwell, Tillman, Lowry as back up.

 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, OrangeRab said:

But that’s just because you haven’t done your 17 right/optimised.
 

For example, at the moment you have Tillman, Cantwell, Lawrence, Dowell, Lowry all playing for arguably one position?

You could easily just not include Dowell and then you have a slot for a striker. (Or if Tillman doesn’t sign).

Or you could easily drop Lundstrum. As you have Cifuentes, Raskin, Jack and then Lawrence, Cantwell, Tillman, Lowry as back up.

 

Aye, that will help out recruitment no end.

Come to Scotland to play on Livi's pitch made up of roll ends from Carpet Right on a wet and miserable snowy day in late summer, but don't worry, we will fuck you right out of the Euro squad so you won't have to worry about playing away against Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and AC Milan.

[OrangeRab 2,875]

3 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Aye, that will help out recruitment no end.

Come to Scotland to play on Livi's pitch made up of roll ends from Carpet Right on a wet and miserable snowy day in late summer, but don't worry, we will fuck you right out of the Euro squad so you won't have to worry about playing away against Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and AC Milan.

That doesn’t make any sense. If we’re signing someone as a starter or good enough to be in our top 17 then they’re going to be in the squad. If they’re not in our top 17 players anyways they wouldn’t get in.

You’re making up this weird concept that somehow if we sign another Scottish player it allows us to somehow sign another foreign player. It doesn’t make any sense.

If we’re signing a foreign striker. Of course they’re going to be in the squad. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, OrangeRab said:

That doesn’t make any sense. If we’re signing someone as a starter or good enough to be in our top 17 then they’re going to be in the squad. If they’re not in our top 17 players anyways they wouldn’t get in.

You’re making up this weird concept that somehow if we sign another Scottish player it allows us to somehow sign another foreign player. It doesn’t make any sense.

 

You literally just suggested that we signed Dowell and should consider leaving him out of the squad.

How exactly is it me not making sense?

Do you genuinely think we have signed him with the intention of not registering him for Europe?

[GersInCanada 7,775]

For me it's too soon to be looking at a Euro squad. Lots more to leave and a few others to come in. Have a better idea come pre season.

[OrangeRab 2,875]

Just now, mitre_mouldmaster said:

You literally just suggested that we signed Dowell and should consider leaving him out of the squad.

How exactly is it me not making sense?

Do you genuinely think we have signed him with the intention of not registering him for Europe?

No. I’m just giving an example that you somehow think we can’t sign a striker. But then you’ve listed 6 players for one position and then about 7 players that can cover cm. Of course we can just drop one and have space for a striker. Signing a Scottish player doesn’t change the fact we can only have 17 non quota players

[theiconicman 2,998]

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

They don’t. That’s very true. Not exactly a great way to keep your players happy. 

Great way to move them on though, pretty much the only way to be fair - unless you want to demote them to train with the reserves

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,768]

1 hour ago, GA1972 said:

It’s better to go with a trimmed squad than signing complete shite just for the sake of filling Euro squad slots. We’ve missed the boat on guys like Ferguson, Hickey, Doig that would’ve been good enough. Shite like Nisbet and Shankland aren’t going to have any impact in a European game 

 

No its not better to go with a trimmed euro squad as this season showed injuries can scupper that 

So if we stick with mitres list above and only 3 players meeting the quota instead of 8, one of which is a keeper, thats a squad of 20, if jack and souttar get injured that leaves 18, not including youth, of they 18, 3 will likely be keepers, 2 defo, so all of a sudden our trimmed squad is now sitting at 15 or 16, for europe that's brutally low

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

7 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

No its not better to go with a trimmed euro squad as this season showed injuries can scupper that 

So if we stick with mitres list above and only 3 players meeting the quota instead of 8, one of which is a keeper, thats a squad of 20, if jack and souttar get injured that leaves 18, not including youth, of they 18, 3 will likely be keepers, 2 defo, so all of a sudden our trimmed squad is now sitting at 15 or 16, for europe that's brutally low

Only need to register 2 keepers to be fair. If both get injured you can add a 3rd.

[OrangeRab 2,875]

5 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

No its not better to go with a trimmed euro squad as this season showed injuries can scupper that 

So if we stick with mitres list above and only 3 players meeting the quota instead of 8, one of which is a keeper, thats a squad of 20, if jack and souttar get injured that leaves 18, not including youth, of they 18, 3 will likely be keepers, 2 defo, so all of a sudden our trimmed squad is now sitting at 15 or 16, for europe that's brutally low

It’s not really. It’s a squad of 23 that have played first team football. You have a back up Gk.

2 back up full backs. (And then a 3rd back up in Devine)

You have 2 back up CB. We will probably end up dropping one of the 7 guys in Mitre’s list that can play in the middle for a striker we sign.

Who else is it you want to sign that’s going to be 3rd choice for any position? 

Waste a years wages and a transfer fee on someone just in case you get ridiculously unlucky with injuries. And who is going to sit on the bench for the whole year

 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

5 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

It’s not really. It’s a squad of 23 that have played first team football. You have a back up Gk.

2 back up full backs. (And then a 3rd back up in Devine)

You have 2 back up CB. We will probably end up dropping one of the 7 guys in Mitre’s list that can play in the middle for a striker we sign.

Who else is it you want to sign that’s going to be 3rd choice for any position? 

Waste a years wages and a transfer fee on someone just in case you get ridiculously unlucky with injuries. And who is going to sit on the bench for the whole year

 

Remember, we are going into next seasons comps with 3 less players available than we did this year as it stands. (counting McGregor, Arfield and Wright as leaving).

The is the equivalent with us picking up 3 long term injuries.

All we need is for two players from our squad to be out injured and this would be the equivalent of this season having 5 players out injured in the squad.

Are we really confident that Souttar is going to have no injury issues this year?

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,768]

12 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

It’s not really. It’s a squad of 23 that have played first team football. You have a back up Gk.

2 back up full backs. (And then a 3rd back up in Devine)

You have 2 back up CB. We will probably end up dropping one of the 7 guys in Mitre’s list that can play in the middle for a striker we sign.

Who else is it you want to sign that’s going to be 3rd choice for any position? 

Waste a years wages and a transfer fee on someone just in case you get ridiculously unlucky with injuries. And who is going to sit on the bench for the whole year

 

Who's talking about wasting a years worth of wages, you dont think someone like nisbet would be an asset to the club, someone like max johnston from motherwell (probs out our range now) spend a year backing up tav to take over from him following season while getting say most of the home games etc 

Ita not like we're thinking "wait a year and we'll have a class of '24 coming out the academy" our young players haven't been deemed good enough to play dead rubber league games unless absolutely needed, so ita not like our euro quota is a one year issue, this time next season we'll probably be even worse as jacks contract comes to an end

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,768]

7 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Remember, we are going into next seasons comps with 3 less players available than we did this year as it stands. (counting McGregor, Arfield and Wright as leaving).

The is the equivalent with us picking up 3 long term injuries.

All we need is for two players from our squad to be out injured and this would be the equivalent of this season having 5 players out injured in the squad.

Are we really confident that Souttar is going to have no injury issues this year?

When souttar almost heedered the post last night i expected him to have done himself for 6 months lol

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

1 minute ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Who's talking about wasting a years worth of wages, you dont think someone like nisbet would be an asset to the club, someone like max johnston from motherwell (probs out our range now) spend a year backing up tav to take over from him following season while getting say most of the home games etc 

Ita not like we're thinking "wait a year and we'll have a class of '24 coming out the academy" our young players haven't been deemed good enough to play dead rubber league games unless absolutely needed, so ita not like our euro quota is a one year issue, this time next season we'll probably be even worse as jacks contract comes to an end

Next year will hopefully see Lovelace and Rice being able to step up and play their part as squad players to be fair.

Year after that, hopefully the boy that we signed from the London Academy.

Issue is that if they turn out to be too fucking good, they will just get pinched by an English team.

We have to develop 'mediocre' youth for our plan to work! 

[BookWorm 4,183]

Enough quality in there to win the Europa or conference.

[OrangeRab 2,875]

4 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Who's talking about wasting a years worth of wages, you dont think someone like nisbet would be an asset to the club, someone like max johnston from motherwell (probs out our range now) spend a year backing up tav to take over from him following season while getting say most of the home games etc 

Ita not like we're thinking "wait a year and we'll have a class of '24 coming out the academy" our young players haven't been deemed good enough to play dead rubber league games unless absolutely needed, so ita not like our euro quota is a one year issue, this time next season we'll probably be even worse as jacks contract comes to an end

Yeh I’d take Johnston in a heartbeat because he’s a good player and would improve us over the next 5 years.

But (taking this from the other thread). We had Kelly, Naismith, Fleck, Shankland suggested. Just to pad the numbers and get to this magical “25”. When none of them would play. Doesn’t make any sense to me

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,768]

2 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

Yeh I’d take Johnston in a heartbeat because he’s a good player and would improve us over the next 5 years.

But (taking this from the other thread). We had Kelly, Naismith, Fleck, Shankland suggested. Just to pad the numbers and get to this magical “25”. When none of them would play. Doesn’t make any sense to me

Arguably fleck and shankland would, especial Shankland if he replaced colak, obviously we'd still sign a top class striker but as a backup shankland domestically (like nisbet) would probably still do a job and for europe it gives us a bit more first team experience instead of praying our first choice striker stays fit and suspension free

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, OrangeRab said:

Yeh I’d take Johnston in a heartbeat because he’s a good player and would improve us over the next 5 years.

But (taking this from the other thread). We had Kelly, Naismith, Fleck, Shankland suggested. Just to pad the numbers and get to this magical “25”. When none of them would play. Doesn’t make any sense to me

Johnston would be great if it were not for the fact we would have both Tav and by the sounds of it, Sterling who would be ahead of him in the pecking order.

Adding him to the squad boosts the numbers, but does not really add much in terms of depth as the position is well covered.

I actually agree with you about the 'optimising the squad' you said earlier, even if your actual example was fever-dream stuff!

I think Cefuentes and Jack both offer the kinda combative midfielder role, so Lundstrum would be one i would look to move on or not register. At the same time, Lundstrum can provide emergency cover a CB, which could be useful should Souttar get injured. 

[theiconicman 2,998]

By the way, fuck Europe - qualify and job is done.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,768]

6 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Next year will hopefully see Lovelace and Rice being able to step up and play their part as squad players to be fair.

Year after that, hopefully the boy that we signed from the London Academy.

Issue is that if they turn out to be too fucking good, they will just get pinched by an English team.

We have to develop 'mediocre' youth for our plan to work! 

Cant see it, not in a years time when after the games the current ones have had, we still don't trust them

King, devine and lowry, you wouldn't have them anywhere near a European game the now if you had a choice

So in a years time i really cant see rice and lovelace improving that much that the 24/25 season we think "get these boys in europe" 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,768]

Just now, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Johnston would be great if it were not for the fact we would have both Tav and by the sounds of it, Sterling who would be ahead of him in the pecking order.

Adding him to the squad boosts the numbers, but does not really add much in terms of depth as the position is well covered.

I actually agree with you about the 'optimising the squad' you said earlier, even if your actual example was fever-dream stuff!

I think Cefuentes and Jack both offer the kinda combative midfielder role, so Lundstrum would be one i would look to move on or not register. At the same time, Lundstrum can provide emergency cover a CB, which could be useful should Souttar get injured. 

Sterling could maybe be the backup left back, but in all honesty if its a choice between sterling and johnston, you'd like to think we'd choose johnston given his potential and how it helps the squad 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

2 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Cant see it, not in a years time when after the games the current ones have had, we still don't trust them

King, devine and lowry, you wouldn't have them anywhere near a European game the now if you had a choice

So in a years time i really cant see rice and lovelace improving that much that the 24/25 season we think "get these boys in europe" 

Ideally I agree, you wouldnt throw them into a euro game if you had much of a choice, but they are young lads, still developing physically.

At that age, a years extra development could be huge. They could also regress, but just got to be hopeful!

Im hopeful they might be of the standard by then that if you throw them on with 10 mins to go as one of our players has went down injured, that they at least have a chance to contribute.

The idea of us getting to the stage where we genuinely have a Euro squad of 17 players with youths who are nowhere near ready is genuinely terrifying.

 

[OrangeRab 2,875]

4 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Arguably fleck and shankland would, especial Shankland if he replaced colak, obviously we'd still sign a top class striker but as a backup shankland domestically (like nisbet) would probably still do a job and for europe it gives us a bit more first team experience instead of praying our first choice striker stays fit and suspension free

I don’t think fleck would improve us. I don’t see it with Shankland either. He has 15 goals in 46 games this season (exc pens). It’s hardly lights out stuff.

Nisbet would be good. But not worth forking out any reasonable fee.

Agreed we’ve done a brutal job at trying to capture the young talent that has left/is leaving the league. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

4 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Sterling could maybe be the backup left back, but in all honesty if its a choice between sterling and johnston, you'd like to think we'd choose johnston given his potential and how it helps the squad 

Yea would probably take Johnston instead of Sterling based purely on the home grown thing if honest.

Ive honestly not seen much about sterling outside of his quite impressive YouTube video. I did however see some comments saying he is great at rightback but an absolute bombscare at leftback. Hopefully they are wide of the mark.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,768]

1 minute ago, OrangeRab said:

I don’t think fleck would improve us. I don’t see it with Shankland either. He has 15 goals in 46 games this season (exc pens). It’s hardly lights out stuff.

Nisbet would be good. But not worth forking out any reasonable fee.

Agreed we’ve done a brutal job at trying to capture the young talent that has left/is leaving the league. 

If we replaced say lundstram with fleck, i doubt we'd notice much difference playing wise, however it means we then can still go and sign a better player than either fleck and Lundstram, but instead of having a youth inexperienced as back up, we'd have fleck