Is Clement getting an easy ride?

[J-Maestro 13,799]

1 minute ago, AGM_72 said:

As much as Tav's leadership is questioned quite a bit, first thing I thought when I saw the line up on Saturday was "who are the leaders in that team?" Butland is about the only one. 

I also think it's time for him to go but we are sorely lacking in strong characters still. 

That's why we are looking at guys like Jordan and McLean. Balogun will count towards that too.

[.Williamson. 87,116]

4 minutes ago, J-Maestro said:

Honestly with what I seen of Danilo last season, I don't think there is much between them. 

I don’t think he’s ever been given a decent run. He could well be shite too but we know for a fact Dessers is definitely shite, so I want to see someone else now. 

Danilo was banging them in for Feyenoord in their pre season last summer, so there’s obviously a finisher in there somewhere 

His one volley yesterday near the end of the game was better than anything Dessers did the entire time he was on 

[AGM_72 3,990]

Just now, J-Maestro said:

That's why we are looking at guys like Jordan and McLean. Balogun will count towards that too.

Is Jordan a strong character? He's experienced but I have no idea about his personality. Balogun is a fair shout but McLean seems to be nowhere near signing.  

[Laudrupsleftfoot 12,130]

11 minutes ago, J-Maestro said:

He'll be bailed out by better players?

Which manager would win the league with these ones?

Yes if we sign players like Whittaker, Sima and a genuinely good CB, number 6 and striker you’d have to be an utter mongo to not have that type of talent be competitive.

On your second point, take away the winning the league part, he doesn’t even really have the current players look like they can consistently win games of football. Bar a couple of individuals looking decent we have looked abysmal, and he’s persisting with long balls down the line or from a centre half/Barron to the wings. The number of passes between Barron and Lawrence or Diomande and Lawrence must be tiny.

I’ll caveat all of the above by saying I’ll think we’ll look a bit better when the league starts as the quality in the league isn’t great, but based on what we’ve seen so far there’s not much to suggest we’re going to beat the fenians consistently.

[steven33jackie 2,014]

7 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

We've spent 2m on a forward that's not to be considered for this squad, leaving us with Dessers and an unfit Danilo. How can we blame Clement? You'll soon see if Shankland hits early form scoring goals (maybe against us) he could be scoring for us whilst Dessers does Dessers stuff.

So just maintain the current player trading model and spend money on a 30 year old with no sell on value. Would that not just be repeating what we have already done. 

[J-Maestro 13,799]

Just now, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

Yes if we sign players like Whittaker, Sima and a genuinely good CB, number 6 and striker you’d have to be an utter mongo to not have that type of talent be competitive.

On your second point, take away the winning the league part, he doesn’t even really have the current players look like they can consistently win games of football. Bar a couple of individuals looking decent we have looked utterly abysmal, and he’s persisting with long balls down the line or from a centre half/Barron to the wings. The number of passes between Barron and Lawrence or Diomande and Lawrence must be tiny.

I’ll caveat all of the above by saying I’ll think we’ll look a bit better when the league starts as the quality in the league isn’t great, but based on what we’ve seen so far there’s not much to suggest we’re going to beat the fenians consistently.

My point is bailed out is a pretty ridiculous term to use, he needs better players as our squad is shite. That implies he's a shite manager and would only win cause of the players.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,508]

1 minute ago, J-Maestro said:

My point is bailed out is a pretty ridiculous term to use, he needs better players as our squad is shite. That implies he's a shite manager and would only win cause of the players.

Mate where id go with this is, he done absolutely unreal to get us top, but Dundee, Motherwell at home, county away, that's on him and an absolute disgrace.

 

Motherwell in isolation those type of games happen but the other two, nah he's got to get the best team on the pitch and not fanny about thinking he can drop players to rest them for other games. We aren't good enough 

I'm genuinely feeling nothing for the coming season and i think it's obvious with me on here that I'm one of the most positive season after season but this coming one, I feel nothing 

[Laudrupsleftfoot 12,130]

1 minute ago, J-Maestro said:

My point is bailed out is a pretty ridiculous term to use, he needs better players as our squad is shite. That implies he's a shite manager and would only win cause of the players.

The jury’s out on how good a manager he is.

Said it repeatedly but he speaks very well and has a number of traits that all our great managers have had.

Equally he’s not improving players, hasn’t been producing results for months and doesn’t seem able or willing to change his approach. They’re not signs of a great manager.

[MayboleLoyal_atb 4,010]

He’s got to take his share of the blame for end of last season aswell. Ross county we were getting over run in middle of the park all first half for then not to move Sterling in there at half time always sticks with me. Went onto lose 2 goals that came from running right through the middle and the rest is history…

[Laudrupsleftfoot 12,130]

If he has learnt anything by the way it has to be that you can’t ping a long ball to Matondo and expect him to control it.

If anything has to instruct the midfield to actively avoid doing it.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,247]

3 minutes ago, steven33jackie said:

So just maintain the current player trading model and spend money on a 30 year old with no sell on value. Would that not just be repeating what we have already done. 

Depends if you want to achieve anything at all this season. It's certainly not a wholesale trading model, but for a proven goal scorer imo it's one we should go for.

Dessers, Danillo, Igamane (not to be considered) v Shankland, Danillo, Dessers. Which group scores more in your opinion, and by how many?

If you go for the first grouping, add in the likely loss of Tavs goals, then you're writing off a season on the hope at some point down the line the punt on Igamane wwors out.

I'd take the spend on Shankland for goals which he's demonstrated he can deliver, not on pretty much every other position including a Maclean type signing.

[J-Maestro 13,799]

3 minutes ago, RFC55 said:

Mate where id go with this is, he done absolutely unreal to get us top, but Dundee, Motherwell at home, county away, that's on him and an absolute disgrace.

 

Motherwell in isolation those type of games happen but the other two, nah he's got to get the best team on the pitch and not fanny about thinking he can drop players to rest them for other games. We aren't good enough 

I'm genuinely feeling nothing for the coming season and i think it's obvious with me on here that I'm one of the most positive season after season but this coming one, I feel nothing 

If we don't get some players in it's going to be an absolute shitshow. Lack of fitness work in pre-season will have cause a lot of the need to chop and change though.

1 minute ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

The jury’s out on how good a manager he is.

Said it repeatedly but he speaks very well and has a number of traits that all our great managers have had.

Equally he’s not improving players, hasn’t been producing results for months and doesn’t seem able or willing to change his approach. They’re not signs of a great manager.

At this point he's the 4th manager not able to get a tune out of these same players. No manager is going to turn some of these guys in to nothing. Unless these players are out the door and better players are in we're fucked no matter who is in charge.

[J-Maestro 13,799]

Just now, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Depends if you want to achieve anything at all this season. It's certainly not a wholesale trading model, but for a proven goal scorer imo it's one we should go for.

Dessers, Danillo, Igamane (not to be considered) v Shankland, Danillo, Dessers. Which group scores more in your opinion, and by how many?

If you go for the first grouping, add in the likely loss of Tavs goals, then you're writing off a season on the hope at some point down the line the punt on Igamane wwors out.

I'd take the spend on Shankland for goals which he's demonstrated he can deliver, not on pretty much every other position including a Maclean type signing.

Igamane and Shankland don't have the same costs though, Shankland will cost more in fee and wages. Unless we move on Dessers or Danilo then we won't get in another striker.

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,508]

4 minutes ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

If he has learnt anything by the way it has to be that you can’t ping a long ball to Matondo and expect him to control it.

If anything has to instruct the midfield to actively avoid doing it.

Long diagonals to mcausland as well 

[Swagger 8,894]

Need to cut Clement a bit of slack but you have to ask why the fuck Matondo keeps appearing. If Lammers is binned to the B team then so should this cunt. One of the worst players ever to appear for us and getting paid a ridiculous wage to do so. 

Diabolical 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,247]

24 minutes ago, J-Maestro said:

Igamane and Shankland don't have the same costs though, Shankland will cost more in fee and wages. Unless we move on Dessers or Danilo then we won't get in another striker.

Shankland will cost max a million more than we've spent on Igamane. We spent half of that on Jefte.

We've probably saved 6 figures pw from those leaving. The difference between Shankland salary and Igamane probably won't even be 10k pw. 

We've prioritised several future potentially decent players including a left back over a credible centre forward leaving us with Dessers, Danilo and a guy not to be included in the squad 

[J-Maestro 13,799]

1 minute ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Shankland will cost max a million more than we've spent on Igamane.

We've probably saved 6 figures pw from those leaving. The difference between Shankland salary and Igamane probably won't even be 10k pw.

We've prioritised several future potentials plus a left back over a credible centre forward leaving us with Dessers, Danilo and a guy not to be included in the squad 

Shankland will be looking for the biggest contract of his career, Igamane won't be on much at all.

I think it would be more difference than 10k but 10k a week over 4 years is still £2m, we need more out the door before anyone comes in. Everyone has been saying our wage bill is out of control but now can't understand when we're trying to work to a better budget. I think going forward we will see a one in one out policy.

[DeanMK 5,211]

1 hour ago, Leftpegcoopz11 said:

That yesterday was chronic to watch. We should at least be able to implement some recognisible system/style of play even though a lot of these players are pish. 

Can hardly string 3 passes together, the manager has to take some responsibility for that. 

It was a pre-season friendly against a top club so I wouldn't be over analyzing things too much, however you've just said it yourself, a lot of these players ARE pish. Truly woeful footballers. 

Until we manage to get rid of them and replace them with (hopefully) better players, I'm not sure how much criticism can be levied towards Clement.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,247]

7 minutes ago, J-Maestro said:

Shankland will be looking for the biggest contract of his career, Igamane won't be on much at all.

I think it would be more difference than 10k but 10k a week over 4 years is still £2m, we need more out the door before anyone comes in. Everyone has been saying our wage bill is out of control but now can't understand when we're trying to work to a better budget. I think going forward we will see a one in one out policy.

Shankland is probs on max 5k pw. He'd be doing great to turn that into 20. Igamane is likely on 10k pw with us as even our younger 1st team youths like King etc are said to be 5-10k plus.  There's little in it between the 2, less so if you didn't sign both him and Jefte and brought in only Shankland.

Out if interest, gut feeling, how many goals do you reckon Dessers, Danilo and Igamane will get us this season?

[J-Maestro 13,799]

1 minute ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Shankland is probs on max 5k pw. He'd be doing great to turn that into 20. Igamane is likely on 10k pw with us as even our youths are said to be 5-10k plus.  There's little in it between the 2, less so if you didn't sign both him and Jefte and brought in only Shankland.

Out if interest, gut feeling, how many goals do you reckon Dessers, Danilo and Igamane will get us this season?

Mate I want Dessers replaced, but I reckon about 40+. 20+ from Dessers or Danilo, 15+ from who plays less and 5+ from Igamane.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,247]

6 minutes ago, J-Maestro said:

Mate I want Dessers replaced, but I reckon about 40+. 20+ from Dessers or Danilo, 15+ from who plays less and 5+ from Igamane.

Shankland averages around 30 goals for hearts a season. We've potentially got a player available to score half the goals all our forwards score for a million quid and a maybe 10 grand a week if we hadn't signed Igamane. If we'd prioritised him instead of Igamane and Jefte then 500k and a few grand a week.

We're likely losing Tav and his goals so we'll need much more to come from our CFs.  It makes no fucking sense gambling on the future whilst stacking the deck against the present.

[J-Maestro 13,799]

3 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Shankland averages around 30 goals for hearts a season. We've potentially got a player available to score half the goals all our forwards score for a million quid and a maybe 10 grand a week if we hadn't signed Igamane. If we'd prioritised him instead of Igamane and Jefte then 500k and a few grand a week.

We're likely losing Tav and his goals so we'll need much more to come from our CFs.  It makes no fucking sense gambling on the future whilst stacking the deck against the present.

I want Shankland, but we don't know anything for certain one what Igamane costed and if it's even all up front.

We 100% need to move on Dessers first though, we can't go in to next season with him or Danilo on a huge packet as 3rd choice.

[AustinGio 97]

My main issue with Clemente is that I don't see what he's trying to do. I don't see a plan, a shape, a strategy. 

 

I see fuck all. Granted the players he's been working with are sub standard and obviously needed moved on. But there should still be progress in an identity. 

 

He's been in the door now for over 6 months and I've no idea how he likes his teams to set up and play fitba. 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,247]

10 minutes ago, J-Maestro said:

I want Shankland, but we don't know anything for certain one what Igamane costed and if it's even all up front.

We 100% need to move on Dessers first though, we can't go in to next season with him or Danilo on a huge packet as 3rd choice.

And yet we currently have 3 forwards, with Dessers no 1, Danillo unfit, and Igamane not in the picture. That's what is certain amongst it all right here, right now. According to our manager.

If that's how we go until next transfer window that's on Clement and Koppen as they had money to spend that (likely) could have got Shankland but prioritised others.

[MacBoyd 6,010]

2 hours ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

We've spent 2m on a forward that's not to be considered for this squad, leaving us with Dessers and an unfit Danilo. How can we blame Clement? You'll soon see if Shankland hits early form scoring goals (maybe against us) he could be scoring for us whilst Dessers does Dessers stuff.

How can we not when you read your first sentence?