Bakbear

Brilliant... thanks,, radio is better than nothing

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/sol/newsid_63...9395&news=1 There you go. You need Real Player. Please note: this match is only available to listeners in the UK.

5 minutes to kick off and I cannae find the game anywhere in Dubai... I signed up for an online peer to peer thing and they are showing everything but the Rangers game... aaaggghh

The Billy Boys was banned entirely because of the line "up to our knees in fenian blood" we all wanted to come up with a different version of the song withhout this line but we were told that this was not allowed, the whole song had to go. Now the fact that other British clubs sing songs to the same tune doesn't seem to matter, Rangers are not allowed to. Then we have the Sash and Derry's walls... it started that we were to cut out the add-ons and now over the weekend it has developed that these songs themselves are deemed sectarian by the mhedia. The propaganda has started on these songs, if we do nothing it will be no time before there are calls for these SONGS to be banned too... thats the songs not the add-ons. As I said yesterday, we need to set our own house in order, on that we are all agreed. We need to stop the FTP and fenian references, no-one can argue. But at the same time we need to fight for our rights over the singing of our traditional songs. I mentioned yesterday that I would love to see the RST or any other supporters representation, engage in legal action to defend our club and demand equality with other clubs. Once our own house is in order we cannot go on accepting this disproportionate treatment. Murray is clearly not going to do this for us, so how can we as a fan base do this ourselves? As an exiled bear I would happily chip in to a fund to pay for legal representation if it was well organized and professional in its approach. How good would it be if every time a Galloway or a Traynor opened their mouth with Slanderous or litigious comments about Rangers a legal team was there to demand a retraction or take legal action. Of course it should be our Chairmans job but thats not happening. I think our in-fighting and turmoil are due to this lack of direction and our frustration at being unable to fight back Sorry if this is bit of a rant but I just feel this is getting ridiculous

A couple of points Bak bear which probably wont clarify matters too much... There is no law in Scotland which outlaws the singing of The Billy Boys - thats been a UEFA and club dictum - there is a law in Scotland which makes sectarian or religious hatred an aggravation of the original offence. ie - you could not be charged with signing the Billy Boys - you would be charged with a Breach of the Peace an element of which contained religious hatred. Interestingly Im informed that a no. of Procurator Fiscal depts in Scotland have not proceeded with charges against Bears singing the Billy Boys at games - the feeling being that as this is a political term - it would fall on definition. The prosecutor in Scotland has to prove every part of the charge beyond all reasonable doubt - there seems to be an opinion that proving beyond reasonable doubt that a term which is political in its conception...would not be accepted as a religious expression. However I think we have to take stock here and stop excusing the unexcusable. It would appear from all reasonable sources that we are to be reported - NOT for singing The Sash or Derrys Walls...but for add ons to songs such as "FTP" and a song which contains the term "fenian bastards" No Rangers fan worth their salt should need to know that these songs are not acceptable - and no law or definitive list should be required to instruct fans how to behave as true ambassadors of this great club Thanks DA, I agree with your entire post, there is no condoning the FTP brigade, the reasoning for my questions is that, as the club don't seem to be interested in defending the legitmate songs maybe as a support we could look at doing so through the RST and some legal representation. That was why I asked if there were any lawyers with vested interests posting here... your comments regarding the legality of these songs are interesting and I really think someone needs to stand up and defend our rights I do not for a minute excuse the inexcusable but as mentioned there are 2 issues, getting our own house in order and then defending our right to sing songs that are non-sectarian. I do not attend games as I live overseas, however I find it hugely frustrating that several British clubs sing some form of the "Hello, Hello" anthem (not sure they are all TBB) and we are the only ones who, it seems, are not allowed to sing it in ANY form. Its not a clear cut situation obviously, but I just think it would be great if a group of fans, took the "powers that be" (UEFA or SPL/SFA or whomsoever) to court and challenge their right to ban us from certain songs which are not illegal. I would also like to see parity between us and every other club in world football, not just Celtic. From my exile it looks like all the focus is on Rangers with NO criticism of Celtic or anyone else

I have a few queries... First - Are there any lawyers that post on here, i would be interested in a qualified legal viewpoint of this whole scenario Second - What is the RST's view on this chanting at yesterdays game, ... Frankie? Third - I thought that as part of the Follow with pride campaign there was a list of acceptable songs issued? Where can we access this list? Also is this list approved by SPL. Does the SPL have a similiar list for all SPL clubs? Fourth - The report is being made by the SPL representative at the game, so Setanta coverage is irrelevant but will a similiar representative be attending the Celtic game and be equally as attentive to the chanting from the crowd armed with the afore mentioned list of what is acceptable or not? Anyway you look at this we are being both unfairly singled out AND we have issues to sort out

Gawd - you're not doing things by halves today are ye! I told you I hate him that much! I've never felt this way about any other Gers player before! Why do you hate him so much....

Exceptional run by Burkey and nice pass to Novo. Can't believe how much space Nacho had - good to see he made the most of it with belter of a shot. I couldn't care less if this was only a friendly, I love it when we win and watching that video I realise I love the sound of Ibrox when we score.... bring on the new season

Not overly concerned about an early pre-season friendly... however, we are all aware of the lack of creativity in our midfield and it seems this was highlighted again yesterday. Not based on this friendly but generally I am concerned that we lack a cutting edge and the imagination to breakdown any well organized defence

Is this other striker not Robbie Fowler? The report today said that Fowler had 8 offers to consider and the insinuation was that one of these offers was from Rangers???

I don't think we need to bother with him, especially the way the whole thing has been handled with Kilmarnock, we would look like idiots if we went back in for him after saying we were done negotiating. Stick to our guns and forget him. If he stays at Kilmarnock we can get him for cheaper next year and he will still be a young player who supprts Rangers

I agree with this except Buffel, i think he is limited to upfront or behind the front two, too lightweight for anywhere else. I am struggling for a suggested replacement though, maybe Burke or Novo? But i tend to agree with other posters, Where does McCulloch fit in? at over 2 million quid he must be considered a starter. Maybe he will play McCulloch on the left and Beasley on the right????? Also do we really need to bother with Naismith anymore?

There is going to be a mixed response. For the life of me I just can't imagine the thought process that would lead a bear to ask that. Thats a fair point for you not being able to imagine why that would be asked, however is it not equally as fair a query to make as yours? Let me state that at no time did i even post my own views on the topic. The whole point of such a site is to discuss different views and queries from our many varied perspectives. Some people pass judgement on people due to legitimate posts before they even think about what is being asked. If you check the wording of the original post you will realise the deliberate choice of phrase was to draw out fans defence of Rangers by using logical and factual based arguments to prove we are superior. Instead a lot have chosen to be offended at such a democratic approach. I guarantee many readers of this forum are afraid to put forward their views for fear of running foul of the "forum elitists" on here and Fish (while not being smart enough for the tag "forum elitist") usually tries to end most threads by posting stupid and normally insulting remarks. Your question is a fair and reasonable one and should be answered fairly and reasonably by those willing to indulge in the spirit of what the forum stands for. Personally, I don't think any Rangers fans would ever see Celtic as a bigger club. No matter what they do in terms of trophies or titles or whatever, they will always be Scotlands second team. I would imagine that many neutral supporters would see it this way too. :pipegreen: Good first point, interesting second point.... its all very well saying that we, as Rangers supporters, will never concede that Celtic are bigger than us, however the day that we lose the justification for declaring ourselves the most succesful team in Scotland on the field will be a black day. I truely hope I never live to see them overtaking our haul of trophies and titles. Off the field, in recent years they have been more clever than us, they are tapping markets like Japan, USA and Poland that we are not. They are also winning the battle of image in the media and somehow succeeding in making us look like the bigots while they are perceived as lily white. The worst is that our top management seem content to let us be walked all over. Perception is everything, the truth doesn't seem to matter anymore. If we are not careful and start being more imaginitive in our marketing and our commercial dealings as well as standing up for ourselves then our image and reputation and therefore our postion as biggest in Scotland will start to suffer. The question may be a strange one, but is it not just another persepective on our current situation....? it may even be indicitave of how worried some of our fans are at the way the club is being run? Would we still refuse to acknowledge the danger if we suffer another couple of trophyless seasons???

As one who grow up in the NIAR era and as someone who has worked abroad now for 7 years, I backed David Murray to the hilt and trusted him to take us in the right direction.... that is until the latter half of the Eck reign when I started to question what was going on with bargain basement signings and pathetic efforts in the transfer market... SDM made a bit of a rally by appointing a foreign coach whom I thought at the time would turn it around for us but it was quickly apparent that the rot at Rangers was too much for PLG. Since that fiasco, my confidence in the chairman has eroded and now completely disappeared. I am tired of his smoke and mirrors approach. I am a convert to the Fish's view, my head has been extracted from the sand pit, I have absolutely no confidence in SDM as the Chairman of Rangers and while I know there is no Knight in Shining armour galloping over the horizon, I do know that we cannot carry on with him at the helm

I think it is shocking that we have spent nothing.... we had such high hopes a few days ago and then we penny pinch In fact, I am becoming more convinced that we deliberatley offer insulting sums of money in the knowledge that we will fail and then can spend nothing while saying "we tried"

But even if we sign another player who is able to almost win a miatch on their own is Ferguson going to allow them to dictate our play? I wouldn't look for another player to dictate play necessarily, I was excited about Faubert, I felt he was exactly what we are looking for. Someone to open up the opposition. Having Fergie pull the strings is great but if he is having an off day or is out for whatever reason, thomson and hemdani could hold their own in midfield with A.N.Other opening up the defence. Its that creativity, inventiveness and flair that we are missing, with or without Fergie... Its been said many many times before and there is no point in dreaming but we need a Laudrup....

Fair enough, I personally think we are still woefully short of creativity and of match winners...

.... and if Ferguson gets injured or suspended or just has an off day? We are far too dependant on Ferguson

I have to agree with Fish here, how often have they (Murray and Bain) played this game before? Offer a sum of money that is well below the players value then when they amazingly fail to land the player they can say "ah but we tried". They have been getting away with it for years Easy to say yes we must have 10 million available to spend because we have offered this much.... offering 10 million and spending it are not the same... why not offer 20 million for Ronaldhino???? Barca will turn it down anyway so we don't actually need 20 million but think of the attention it would generate.... We have spent hee haw money so far.. none, nothing, zero... not a single penny.... thats bad.

Sorry to be controversial but I think the Hibs keeper needs to take a good look at himself over the goals he has let Charlie Adam score. If my memory serves correctly then Adam has put 4 free kicks in against Hibs. Assuming that the keeper was the same both times?? A bit of perspective on the "dead ball specialist" thing. Adam has potential but he is far too fat and he is SLLLLOOOOWWWWW. I have said it before and I will say it again, Kris Boyd and Charlie Adam are an embarrasment to the clubs coaching staff. How professional footballers can be unfit is beyond me and Walter Smith needs to get it sorted.... FFS being fit is the very minimum you would expect them to do for their wages. The fact that they are young players just makes it all the more outrageous. Christ when i was 20 years old I was fitter than Charlie Adam

Where does McMillan play, I thought he was center half but he was in the box to win the penalty?

What was the starting line-up and formation of the Under -19's last night? I am interested where all these youngsters natural positions are and where they would fit into the 1st team. Did we play 4-4-2, 4-5-1 or what? where do Furman, Shinnie, Lennon, Fleck etc play and What about Loy when he is fit, where does he play?

Whats the best part of Ibrox to have a season ticket in, who on here considers themselves as having the best possible seat?

Exactly mate 60 million should be considered a steal really! And then they will own the debts of the club as well no???

Well, in fairness it depends on the context of his comments.... If it is in reference to the footballing year then any manager that takes Scotland to the top of a group containing the world cup finalists and the world champions, beating the Champions in the process, is worthy of a manager of the year award, IMO... However if Barry purely meant that Walter should be manager of the year for entirely SPL performance, (thus comparing a 4 month period to a 8 month period) then yes its a ridiculous statement...