RangersFanOwnership Model

[TheLawMan 6,240]

You still need someone to match the donations and take a 30-49% stake. Thats the crucial part. Thats the only way it will work. All your efforts should be focussed on that right now.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Never going to Happen... the Largest Club membership scheme in the world is Benfica and the only have about 320,000. So right away all your calcs will be nonsense.

Whats the point in that? Then its effectively a share scheme with none of the securities of being floated on the stock markets. A fan membership scheme would be better where everyone gets a membership and EQUAL voting rights. Who's to say a really rich guy like Murray couldn't come in again under various Pseudonyms and screw us over again.

Clubs with fan membershio schemes can register supporters clubs, but basically, they are just administrative entities to collectively apply for tickets for members to ensure tickets together etc. Why would you need anything else? Why give supporters clubs extra say? That would allow say a David Murry to start creating various clubs and gain even more voting rights.

Now that's just nonsense. Apart from the Scottish expats, who would support us? There's only 5 million people in Scotland, so to say there are 'millions' of Rangers fans out there willingto plough money like that into the club is just ridiculous.

Absolutley ridiculous price. Average price abroad is only about £40-£60. Why pay double for what we're getting. Thats why we're in the position we're in, inflating what we actually have here in Scottish football anyway.

I can' be bothered going through the rest, but if it's anything like the start then it's not going to work like this.

I do agree a fan ownership/membership model IS the way forward, but not the model that you have proposed.

First year of a fan membership/ownership model, we;d be lucky to get 40,000 people joining up, it takes time to implement these schemes, and its just time we don't have.

We need someone with a ton of cash to come in who's willing to put the money upfront, giving us time to go through the details and allow a transition where the fans would buy him/them out to a stage where they would own a max of 35-40% of the club (this would ensure that they needed quite a large number of people to support them, should they want to implement something ridiculous.

A big down point of fan membership/ownership is that the fans would elect members to the board, and they are entrusting these people to do the job to the best of their abilities. It doesn't mean that they have to run everything past the fans, as they are elected representatives and will be able to do what they want provided they have approval by the board. Just think of politicians, they get into government and basically do what they want.

[RangersForMe3 31]

Great first post mate!

I'd definitely be in, it's a well thought out plan. Hope you get it up and running and in the frame

Thanks mate, we need as many of the fans onboard and to spread the word, momentum will quickly gain.

[RangersForMe3 31]

Alex, I replied back on Thursday night on your original post.

The idea is great in principle but in my opinion it needs "tweaked" here and there. I still can't see 500k fans contributing, nor can I see some paying in 2 or 3 times more than others. The only way that would work would be as shareholders. Having 2 votes instead of 1 matters little if there are half a million votes. At least with shares you can sell them.

I think the £100 would need to be increased to at least double. I also think that you need to get a meeting in place ASAP to get the plan ironed out.

I also believe that having multiple Trustees such as Walter Smith, Souness, Findlay, etc would be preferable.

Initially, the idea may require some interim financial backing from a big player or players.

I also have some concerns about who would go on the Board from the fans. To be blunt, most fans don't have the experience to run such an organisation and petty jealousy can be a problem. (see the response to the RST for details)

Still like to help try to get this off the ground but we need to move quickly.

I am sure i replied back to every post, as i always try to do mate, sorry if i didn't, it wasn't intentional if i didn't.

The numbers dont really matter, nobody knows for sure how many fans we can get to sign up for membership, we all have opinions on it and they all differ, some say it can be achived, some say it can't, nobody knows until we try.

The point on doubling it is just going to alienate fans IMO, if they want to spend £200 why not just buy 2?

Due to demographics it will be hard to just get a meeting organised, hopefully at the next home game we can arrange one, but the problem is that not all fans can make every game.

We have been offered a venue in East Kilbride F.O.C for meetings, so that is another option, but again demographics and spare time for everyone make it hard to get a meeting together.

Am looking at the possibility of having an online meeting on a temporay MSN thing where we can all be invted in to one single chat and have the meeting online, that way opinions can be met with nthe highest number of fans attending.

It is quite clear in the first Step that the idea hinges on multiple people heading it, we have made that clear from the start it is the main important factor, and we are trying hard to get access to these type of people to show them the model, but it isnt easy to get connections with them, but we are making some progress as we speak.

We are aware of the backing we may well need from wealthy fans, but we are addressing that situation hopefully at the game today we can get the idea discussed with a wealthy fan, there is also the possibility that donations can be made if the worst comes to the worst if 200 people chipped in £2 a week or whatever figures the costs per week ran at, at this stage things like this would be discussed at the meeting.

As for fans on the board, ideally that is the vision, but any fan wishing to be put forward for the board would have to present their credentials and reasons why they believe they are the right man for the job and then let the members vote for which they think is the best options based on credentials and experience of being able to do the job.

There is a possibility that some of the lesser known wealthy fans may be the options.

At this stage as long as the person has the right ideal (that he see's Rangers in the way i do) and he has the ability to do the job, they would have my vote, but they would need many many votes to get that far, and be multi successful in various projects and businesses they have been involved.

Anyone with petty agendas and self interest would be quickly dismissed with no support, which is one reason why this works.

There will be no one man in charge, it will be a joint thing, which is why the voting system will work, if we screew up it will be the majority who have screwed up too and not just one guy pushing his beliefs.

This is for the fans by the fans

And i would like to make it abundantly clear from the off I HAVE NO INTEREST IN BEING ON THE BOARD OR HAVING ANY RUNNING OF THE CLUB.

I want no limelight, i am just happy plugging away in the dark making this a success, let the people who are the best for the job do what they do best.

All help is welcomed mate, we need it, nobody knows more than us that we need to move fast, but it isnt as easy as that, firstly we need to make inroads into getting access to the people we need to see this, we are doing that but it isnt easy to get to these people and i have asked repeatedly for help from ADMIN/NARSA/UB/TBO etc on this thread.

We cant do it on our own, but we have a base model that over 90% of the people who have seen it want to support it.

I keep saying it

The time is now

[RangersForMe3 31]

I am now out in the Winchburgh area near Edinburgh, and if I can help with any Regional Stuff like Leaflet Distribution and lease with any other like minded Bears out here just let me know mate .

If this is going to work we need to get together in our Regions, and get cracking with Leaflet Distribution and the Likes .I will spread this out to any Rangers minded people I know out here .There are a few.

Just give me a PM update at any time .I don't do Facebook or Twitter .

Yes mate one idea we have had is regional meetings/leaders to get the word out, it sprang up from having people spread the word to the bears around them overseas.

All help will be appreciated and most certainly needed mate

[RangersForMe3 31]

Hi Alex,

Just a few questions/points if you don't mind.

1) Don't take this the wrong way, but who can vouch for you? We don't want another Craig Whyte or worse

I am not trying to buy the club, i dont have any money, i am simply trying to get the fans onboard with a transparent and even plan.

2) You'll need to get website/twitter/(iPhone app?) up within days at the latest given there are 13 days left.

Already in hand, it's not like we hadnt thought about this, but the time is insignificant if we dont get the fans backing

3) Are you only using word of mouth? I'm guessing you don't have any advertising budget. Maybe a banner at the match today?

No there is no budget, i cant afford to buy a banner on my own,word of mouth for now, baring in mind the thread is about 36hrs old

4) There is a huge danger of this and the RST effort just diluting each other and resulting in failure. Divide and conquer and all that. How can you avoid this?

The last thing we want is to divide the fans, but we are talking about fan ownership, we believe the RST are just posturing for a place on the board for MD and using fan representation, i cannot say how bad that would be for Rangers, if people want to put money into that rahter than this then they will be thanks for wanting to help the club, not alienated

5) How do you plan to return the money without some of it for admin costs?

I am no financial expert but i am assuming that the fund would acrue interest and would be looking at that interest to be able to cover any costs incurred, or the proposal i made in the post above your one.

6) Is there any way this could work with the involvement of Paul Whyte etc to guarantee the figure is reached?

If you mean Paul Murray, it is already an avenue we have started to go down with regards to having him on board, if we can get in touch with him then we would like to etch something out ASAP, with a restructuring back to the original model on completion of ownership, i have emailed D&P asking for contact with Paul Murray, Ally McCoist and Walter Smith to show them the model and the support it has so far which is over 90% of the fans that have seen it.

Having said all that, I'm most likely in. Good work.

Questions always welcomed mate, hopefully that covers what we are trying to do bud

[RangersForMe3 31]

Never going to Happen... the Largest Club membership scheme in the world is Benfica and the only have about 320,000. So right away all your calcs will be nonsense.

Whats the point in that? Then its effectively a share scheme with none of the securities of being floated on the stock markets. A fan membership scheme would be better where everyone gets a membership and EQUAL voting rights. Who's to say a really rich guy like Murray couldn't come in again under various Pseudonyms and screw us over again.

Clubs with fan membershio schemes can register supporters clubs, but basically, they are just administrative entities to collectively apply for tickets for members to ensure tickets together etc. Why would you need anything else? Why give supporters clubs extra say? That would allow say a David Murry to start creating various clubs and gain even more voting rights.

Now that's just nonsense. Apart from the Scottish expats, who would support us? There's only 5 million people in Scotland, so to say there are 'millions' of Rangers fans out there willingto plough money like that into the club is just ridiculous.

Absolutley ridiculous price. Average price abroad is only about £40-£60. Why pay double for what we're getting. Thats why we're in the position we're in, inflating what we actually have here in Scottish football anyway.

I can' be bothered going through the rest, but if it's anything like the start then it's not going to work like this.

I do agree a fan ownership/membership model IS the way forward, but not the model that you have proposed.

First year of a fan membership/ownership model, we;d be lucky to get 40,000 people joining up, it takes time to implement these schemes, and its just time we don't have.

We need someone with a ton of cash to come in who's willing to put the money upfront, giving us time to go through the details and allow a transition where the fans would buy him/them out to a stage where they would own a max of 35-40% of the club (this would ensure that they needed quite a large number of people to support them, should they want to implement something ridiculous.

A big down point of fan membership/ownership is that the fans would elect members to the board, and they are entrusting these people to do the job to the best of their abilities. It doesn't mean that they have to run everything past the fans, as they are elected representatives and will be able to do what they want provided they have approval by the board. Just think of politicians, they get into government and basically do what they want.

Nobody said they have to run everything by the fans, that is ridiculous

As for the rest, thanks for your input, it has been received and noted.

I look forward to seeing what you are doing to try and help and then we can all be as disrespectful as you are.

[RangersForMe3 31]

You still need someone to match the donations and take a 30-49% stake. Thats the crucial part. Thats the only way it will work. All your efforts should be focussed on that right now.

Repeatedly said what we are trying to do.

It isnt as simple as it seems, these people are busy and you need to get contacts that know them.

It is ok to say we need this and we need that, we know we do, we have said we do

We are trying to get this to happen, once the first door opens, then the rest become easier.

We are hopeful of speaking to a wealthy fan at the game today (not Paul Murray)

If anyone knows Paul Murray we want to put some ideas to him.

[southcoastbear 1,639]

Membership is definately the way to go for me. Gives ongoing finance in addition to initial cash injection far better than buying shares which has an as yet uustipulated administartive cost

in the saverangers scheme.

[RangersForMe3 31]

Membership is definately the way to go for me. Gives ongoing finance in addition to initial cash injection far better than buying shares which has an as yet uustipulated administartive cost

in the saverangers scheme.

We certainly feel there will be a financial benefit as well as the numurous TV appearances that give certain people the motivation to run the saverangers campaign.

There is nothing to suggest that saverangers is about fan ownership, it all points to fan representation on the board and we all know who that "rep" will be.

This is where our concept is different, we are not interested in the spotlight, that naturally would come with success, but this is what we hope will be the remit of the figureheads, if say it was Walter Smith etc then they would be the ones to convey the fans ideas to the media, it would also cut out expenses too.

TBF, this is was Dingwall has so many people at his beck and call because they all want to be famous.

We wont be interested in media engagements and the like, we just want our club back.

[The Monk 3,208]

With Fan ownership, I know this is one of the least of our worries. But do we decide potential transfer budgets by the money we put in and vote on topics such as who to sign, who deserves a new contract, how much the new contract should be etc. Or will this be down to any major investor who controls the 51% or so stake.

[RangersForMe3 31]

With Fan ownership, I know this is one of the least of our worries. But do we decide potential transfer budgets by the money we put in and vote on topics such as who to sign, who deserves a new contract, how much the new contract should be etc. Or will this be down to any major investor who controls the 51% or so stake.

It would be our belief that the members that are putting their money in should decide the set transfer budget for spending on players, but the rest of how it is spent should be down to the manager and Chief Executive.

The manager should have full control of signing targets, its the Chief Executives job to get the deals done.

It should be down to the manager who deserves a contract and the worth, the Chief Executive is there to liaise with the manager on the value of the players.

Bearing in mind ultimately they will need to do whats right or they will not be voted for again and new Chief Exec could mean new manager.

[The Monk 3,208]

It would be our belief that the members that are putting their money in should decide the set transfer budget for spending on players, but the rest of how it is spent should be down to the manager and Chief Executive.

The manager should have full control of signing targets, its the Chief Executives job to get the deals done.

It should be down to the manager who deserves a contract and the worth, the Chief Executive is there to liaise with the manager on the value of the players.

Bearing in mind ultimately they will need to do whats right or they will not be voted for again and new Chief Exec could mean new manager.

Cheers, think that would be great if say our team needs drastic improvement we have the power to finance a change to the problem.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

Yes Alex Fan membership with a vote for a representative sucj as Goughie ,Walter Mr Souness and DF would be fantastic .All these men love the Club and all of them have an affinity witj us the Fans.

Its simmilar to the German Model and actually works well over there if we could get this going with one of the big names above it would be great.

[lau03143 84]

Nobody said they have to run everything by the fans, that is ridiculous

As for the rest, thanks for your input, it has been received and noted.

I look forward to seeing what you are doing to try and help and then we can all be as disrespectful as you are.

I'm not being disrespectful at all.

If you can't take the critisim from someone on a message board, how are you even going to be able to take the idea forward. Don't take it personally.

You'd get the arse ripped out of you if you put that proposal forward to a businessman as your first point about 500,000 members is quite frankly just rubbish. So the rest of what you say just won't add up, no matter how much you want it to.

Like I said, I do agree with you that a fan membership model for the club is the way forward.

[stefmartin16 121]

I'm in. Remember we don't need 200000 members to take this forward. We have a lot of working class bears who would pay the £100 and £10 per month myself included, we also have some very rich fans who might want to buy 10 of these packages in return for ten votes etc.

[andymcg1986 259]

what about aproaching the guy from sale sharks that is interested?? he could be the figure head within it!! he said when he buys rangers he just wants success and to break even!! i also know he said that he wanted to do it alone outwith the blue knights but this could be something that would interest him

[RangersForMe3 31]

I'm not being disrespectful at all.

If you can't take the critisim from someone on a message board, how are you even going to be able to take the idea forward. Don't take it personally.

You'd get the arse ripped out of you if you put that proposal forward to a businessman as your first point about 500,000 members is quite frankly just rubbish. So the rest of what you say just won't add up, no matter how much you want it to.

Like I said, I do agree with you that a fan membership model for the club is the way forward.

I haven't taken anything to heart, your wording suggest resentment.

But again i will repeat the figures are just that a set of numbers THEY ARE NOT SET IN STONE.

you have one opinion and it is different to mine and a lot of others, luckiky we dont need you to move forward.

And you are right you are just a person on a message, so it makes no difference what you think.

That that fellow fans are actively trying to atleast do something and you cant even be civil, if you dont like it thats fine not everyone will, thats your choice.

It not behaviour i woukd expect from a fellow bear.

Luckily all the peoplemessaging offering support help and ideas are at least giving it a go and we can say well it didnt work but by f*ck we gave it our best shot.

Like i said i await your solution ideas and we can then pick apart your idea.

I will keep a look out for what you are doing to help.

Thanks for your feedback, always appreciated

[RangersForMe3 31]

I'm in. Remember we don't need 200000 members to take this forward. We have a lot of working class bears who would pay the £100 and £10 per month myself included, we also have some very rich fans who might want to buy 10 of these packages in return for ten votes etc.

Yes i expect hardly anybody to purchase just 1 most will do 2 or 3 at least.

We will also be looking at doing regional fund raisers too.

we may look at doing block votes for purchases over £1000, these are ideas we will discuss.

If ideas are deemed improvements by the majority we will happily consider anything.

[RangersForMe3 31]

what about aproaching the guy from sale sharks that is interested?? he could be the figure head within it!! he said when he buys rangers he just wants success and to break even!! i also know he said that he wanted to do it alone outwith the blue knights but this could be something that would interest him

Yes we will consider doing this with a view to building the members fund to a certain limit and then him handing over ownership to the fans for a set price reasonable to both parties.

great idea mate thank you

[RangersForMe3 31]

I am delighted to announce that a websie has been successfully purchased and we will aim to get that website fully up and running ASAP.

It will give it a great focal point to show people too.

There will be lots of info as often as possible including regular updates.

Anyone who donates/join will have their name and action registered.

Anyone who contributes in anyway will also be highlighted on the site.

We will be working on a printable template of the base model so you people can print it off for friends and family who do not have internet access.

The site will aim to be as transparent as possible to all members and encourage other bears to join us

Very exciting stuff

[WVB 2,560]

Nobody said they have to run everything by the fans, that is ridiculous

As for the rest, thanks for your input, it has been received and noted.

I look forward to seeing what you are doing to try and help and then we can all be as disrespectful as you are.

I'm not being disrespectful at all.

If you can't take the critisim from someone on a message board, how are you even going to be able to take the idea forward. Don't take it personally.

You'd get the arse ripped out of you if you put that proposal forward to a businessman as your first point about 500,000 members is quite frankly just rubbish. So the rest of what you say just won't add up, no matter how much you want it to.

Like I said, I do agree with you that a fan membership model for the club is the way forward.

Disrespectful AND ignorant would have been more accurate. You say you're not being disrespectful then go on to say his first point "is quite frankly just rubbish". Maybe you've been drinking, that might explain it.

To the OP........excellent work so far, if there's money needed I'd much rather stick a grand your way than 50p towards the fat t-shirt salesmans ego trip.

[WVB 2,560]

...and your 100% sure you're not Craig Whyte, right?

[topgoalie 637]

to be honest with you mate mentioned to a few on our bus today,and 90% of them did not have a clue what i was talking about,including my best mate,believe it or not most of the 'older' supporters are not interested in the internet,i for one as you know is all for this but in what other avenue can we get these old style supporters interested ???

[Ger for life 199]

I am delighted to announce that a websie has been successfully purchased and we will aim to get that website fully up and running ASAP.

It will give it a great focal point to show people too.

There will be lots of info as often as possible including regular updates.

Anyone who donates/join will have their name and action registered.

Anyone who contributes in anyway will also be highlighted on the site.

We will be working on a printable template of the base model so you people can print it off for friends and family who do not have internet access.

The site will aim to be as transparent as possible to all members and encourage other bears to join us

Very exciting stuff

Alex, as you know I'm well up for this and good on you for not only your plan but your responses to fellow posters. Can you update us with any progress made so far in terms of obtaining a high profile figure to front this campaign?