RangersFanOwnership Model

[RangersForMe3 31]

You have just answered my question, and why this idea like the many others will run into serious difficulties from the start. Unless we can prove without a doubt, they can get a return on their investment. "WE" need to find somebody though, to get this type of idea off the ground or it will fail.

See this is where you're are wrong, I am interested in a viable model that works, with a serious backer from the start to help set it up. That's why I wish you luck trying to find a way, but until that day is here. As I said it's sadly not a viable model at this time.

Like many idea's you get constructive criticism, it's not a lack of support. It's just valid questions that need addressed. So this type of idea, can become more than a idea.

Ok, but how many times do you need to keep saying the same old thing

WE KNOW WE NEED A BACKER IT'S THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE IN THE OP FFS.

Like i said, if you dont like it, dont waste your time repeating yourself.

[bufforbero 128]

Signed up to the saverangers.com scheme and am all for your scheme too mate. I just wish we could get a move on because at the moment it's just so much talk.

Something! ANYTHING! I'm not even interested in getting anything back in return. It's like a member of your family needing help, you do what is needed.

If we try and fail, at least we tried. Better to fight and die, than walk meekly into the grave.

[RangersForMe3 31]

I did read the OP.

the club costs £4m per month to run. The idea that you could get 400,000 fans contributing £10 a month is not very likely im afraid to say.

the club can make a £10m deficit because it has running costs of £45m per year and semi-guaranteed income of £35m per year. How do you propose to reduce the outgoings by £10m per year without losing the income (ie, take £10m of wages and you could be battling with the likes of Hearts and Motherwell for Euro places which will have a knock on effect on attendances)

Ok so it may not be 10 a season, this was an idea mooted in the past but accept under your model its unlikely.

No, it wont be null and void under administration. It would be under liquidation though.

Ok, here we go again

What is it with the negativity of this place? and i thought FF

Why are posters continuining in a thread they are not supporting, isnt that a bit of a waste of time

Why would we need 400,000 when you said yourself the shortfall is at most 10m? thats 100,000

Jesus, i sometimes wish i hadnt bothered, you people really get me down.

Want everything doen for you by some superior guy and only to happy to take pot shots at the people who are offering ideas

Like i said to the other poster, if you are just going to pour scorn on cant you please go and find other threads more aligned to your interests, all you are doing is hampering people who are trying to at least do something.

[Falcoholic 1,348]

It's taken me a while to read the whole of this thread but I finally managed it in my lunch hour

I'm in. Where do I sign?

I can't see any holes in the OP's idea but then I'm not business minded. I'm sure someone with a proper business head will be able to point you in the right direction and assist with any blind spots.

I'll dig out oor Craig's phone number and I'll PM it to ya. He's in Monaco on his hols at the mo and doesn't know when he'll be back but he says he doesn't mind looking after the dough for ya.

[aghalee_hero 1]

Would do the £100 up front and £10 a month but 500k, is that realistic?

[RangersForMe3 31]

Signed up to the saverangers.com scheme and am all for your scheme too mate. I just wish we could get a move on because at the moment it's just so much talk.

Something! ANYTHING! I'm not even interested in getting anything back in return. It's like a member of your family needing help, you do what is needed.

If we try and fail, at least we tried. Better to fight and die, than walk meekly into the grave.

Whether you want anything back or not mate i admire your support, but do you really think MD and the RST are really going to do anything?

They will use the backing of the saverangers campaign to snuggle themselves into position to get on the board.

This is about fan ownership, theirs so far seems to be about Fan representation and we all know who that will be (Mr FF)

Not for me thanks, MD will be a disastr for the fans on the board at Rangers

I said it previously and i will say it again i would rather have SDM on board than MD and i hate SDM WITH A PASSION

[MrSifter 181]

I've not read through the thread but wouldn't the most likely scenario be 5000 bears each investing £5000?

When you start talking high volume and low investment it becomes more problematic.

[disgruntled_bear 157]

Ok, but how many times do you need to keep saying the same old thing

WE KNOW WE NEED A BACKER IT'S THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE IN THE OP FFS.

Like i said, if you dont like it, dont waste your time repeating yourself.

You keep on fobbing off some serious flaws in the plan. Like I said, how are you going to secure a backer to get this idea of the ground? It's not a hard question. If you have no idea then fair enough.

This ain't all black and white, but. If you can't take constructive criticism at this stage. How are you going to convince these investors in this type of idea.

If I'm coming across highly critical, then it's not meant to come across like that. As I've said I'm interested in a viable working model for our club. Hence why I'm asking these questions. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't be commenting.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Ok, here we go again

What is it with the negativity of this place? and i thought FF

Why are posters continuining in a thread they are not supporting, isnt that a bit of a waste of time

Why would we need 400,000 when you said yourself the shortfall is at most 10m? thats 100,000

Jesus, i sometimes wish i hadnt bothered, you people really get me down.

Want everything doen for you by some superior guy and only to happy to take pot shots at the people who are offering ideas

Like i said to the other poster, if you are just going to pour scorn on cant you please go and find other threads more aligned to your interests, all you are doing is hampering people who are trying to at least do something.

You are now displaying traits of both our previous regimes im afraid. As i said to you before, forewarned and forearmed is better than heading into battle without your armour and protection on.

I congratulated you on your idea and effort, but if you are not willing to engage in any form of debate as to the things you should be considering in advance, then your effort will fail miserably.

And as for not contributing......I will decide on that, thank you.

[bufforbero 128]

Whether you want anything back or not mate i admire your support, but do you really think MD and the RST are really going to do anything?

They will use the backing of the saverangers campaign to snuggle themselves into position to get on the board.

This is about fan ownership, theirs so far seems to be about Fan representation and we all know who that will be (Mr FF)

Not for me thanks, MD will be a disastr for the fans on the board at Rangers

I said it previously and i will say it again i would rather have SDM on board than MD and i hate SDM WITH A PASSION

I hear you brother and don't disagree.

Like every other fan, I have been through all the rollercoaster emotions. It's like sinking into a pool of quicksand, at present I'd grab anybodies hand.

I'm no financial genius and the only support I can offer is through my wallet and in my trust. It may be misplaced, but just watching all this unfold without action is heartbreaking.

I hope someone picks up your idea and runs with it. I've been advocating a monthly DD scheme for a while.

If I see DF QC doon Cowden High St i'll try and railroad him.

[Hoodster 162]

Alex

Keep positive mate. Some people live to find ways of not doing anything. You on the other hand are actively trying to introduce something positive to the club.

I have been self Employed and also had my own company. If I listened to everyone telling me it would not work or don't do this or that, I would never had moved my arse off the couch. The people that succeed are the people who actually do it.

Some of the negative points are just bourne out of not reading the OP properly. Some points are justified and you may need to convince people about them.

I have sent emails to friends in Scotland, England and the United States for you. It is not much but I will do my best to spread the word.

Keep going and good luck.

[tartansmokie 36]

Brilliant idea, hope it takes off. I liuve in West Yorkshire so if there is anything I can do down here regarding leaflet distribution, etc just let me know

[RangersForMe3 31]

You keep on fobbing off some serious flaws in the plan. Like I said, how are you going to secure a backer to get this idea of the ground? It's not a hard question. If you have no idea then fair enough.

This ain't all black and white, but. If you can't take constructive criticism at this stage. How are you going to convince these investors in this type of idea.

If I'm coming across highly critical, then it's not meant to come across like that. As I've said I'm interested in a viable working model for our club. Hence why I'm asking these questions. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't be commenting.

Firstly let apologise, my anger was with krissg910 whose only contributions to thread are to continually plug his own idea and put mine down,he has had plentyof time all of a sudden he is all over my thread with his own plan like some kind of spoilt child.

I did not mean that to come accross to you, although i did think you were being overly critical but all valid points are welcome i just want to keep the overly negative away.

The transparency is there, it is clearly a plan yet people are shooting it down as set in stone, designed for ideas, input

and brainstorming.

Things do get taken out of context onlibe, so sorry if i was being defensive, the other poster had got to me that is.

hopefully you'll accept my apologies and continue to add ideas here

[disgruntled_bear 157]

Firstly let apologise, my anger was with krissg910 whose only contributions to thread are to continually plug his own idea and put mine down,he has had plentyof time all of a sudden he is all over my thread with his own plan like some kind of spoilt child.

I did not mean that to come accross to you, although i did think you were being overly critical but all valid points are welcome i just want to keep the overly negative away.

The transparency is there, it is clearly a plan yet people are shooting it down as set in stone, designed for ideas, input

and brainstorming.

Things do get taken out of context onlibe, so sorry if i was being defensive, the other poster had got to me that is.

hipefully you'll accept my apologies and continue to add ideas here

It's cool, hopefully we can all get on the same page and make a plan like this work.

[RangersForMe3 31]

It's taken me a while to read the whole of this thread but I finally managed it in my lunch hour

I'm in. Where do I sign?

I can't see any holes in the OP's idea but then I'm not business minded. I'm sure someone with a proper business head will be able to point you in the right direction and assist with any blind spots.

I'll dig out oor Craig's phone number and I'll PM it to ya. He's in Monaco on his hols at the mo and doesn't know when he'll be back but he says he doesn't mind looking after the dough for ya.

Thanks for the support mate, it is great needed and appreciated

[RangersForMe3 31]

Would do the £100 up front and £10 a month but 500k, is that realistic?

Nobody knows my friend, but there had to be figures mentioned, so as not to frighten anyone away we went for the lower end.

It's all about the vehicle to drive it the numbers will take care of themselves either way

[RangersForMe3 31]

I've not read through the thread but wouldn't the most likely scenario be 5000 bears each investing £5000?

When you start talking high volume and low investment it becomes more problematic.

That idea has been mooted on FF as the "quick" solution, although one of the main pro posters did admit the idea was mooted about 2 years ago first and they still havent got anywhere near 5000 bears with 5k spare.

I would support it 100% if it happened, but its more unlikely than this IMO.

[krissg910 110]

Firstly let apologise, my anger was with krissg910 whose only contributions to thread are to continually plug his own idea and put mine down,he has had plentyof time all of a sudden he is all over my thread with his own plan like some kind of spoilt child.

I did not mean that to come accross to you, although i did think you were being overly critical but all valid points are welcome i just want to keep the overly negative away.

The transparency is there, it is clearly a plan yet people are shooting it down as set in stone, designed for ideas, input

and brainstorming.

Things do get taken out of context onlibe, so sorry if i was being defensive, the other poster had got to me that is.

hipefully you'll accept my apologies and continue to add ideas here

ive never put your idea down m8, infact if you look at my posts i have said i would sign up to you plan no problem and also praised your idea.

the only thing i have critisised about your plan is the funding plan as i think 500,000 members is far to optimistic.. as for posting the plan i had been working on, i just worked on it as something to pass the time, i have no way of putting it into play. therefor posted it for you to read and see if it would maybe help or give your more ideas to work into your own plan.

if you are not willing to change your plan at all then your no better than a dictator just as whyte and murray

[RangersForMe3 31]

You are now displaying traits of both our previous regimes im afraid. As i said to you before, forewarned and forearmed is better than heading into battle without your armour and protection on.

I congratulated you on your idea and effort, but if you are not willing to engage in any form of debate as to the things you should be considering in advance, then your effort will fail miserably.

And as for not contributing......I will decide on that, thank you.

Everything is transparent and out in the open upfront, so that knocks out the first bit IMO.

I am willing to take on ideas, as i have done from people on the thread already, i am not and under no circumstances going to tolerate and reply to any crticism that is not needed or fair (not saying that you were in any way)

I was a little wound up ealier due to another poster trying to continually railroad his idea in and put mine out, why he doesnt just make his own thread i have no idea, or why he never bothered to make one before is beyond me.

Anyway if you feel that i came across as someone who didnt want to debate with you then i am sorry for tht as that is exactly what i want.

Ideas, opinions, suggestion all positive or at the very worst contructive.

I have since calmed down so please accept my apologies and hopefully you will carry on adding contrsuctive issues that will take it forward

[RangersForMe3 31]

I hear you brother and don't disagree.

Like every other fan, I have been through all the rollercoaster emotions. It's like sinking into a pool of quicksand, at present I'd grab anybodies hand.

I'm no financial genius and the only support I can offer is through my wallet and in my trust. It may be misplaced, but just watching all this unfold without action is heartbreaking.

I hope someone picks up your idea and runs with it. I've been advocating a monthly DD scheme for a while.

If I see DF QC doon Cowden High St i'll try and railroad him.

You may not need to look for him, that is currently being undertaken as we speak.

[RangersForMe3 31]

Alex

Keep positive mate. Some people live to find ways of not doing anything. You on the other hand are actively trying to introduce something positive to the club.

I have been self Employed and also had my own company. If I listened to everyone telling me it would not work or don't do this or that, I would never had moved my arse off the couch. The people that succeed are the people who actually do it.

Some of the negative points are just bourne out of not reading the OP properly. Some points are justified and you may need to convince people about them.

I have sent emails to friends in Scotland, England and the United States for you. It is not much but I will do my best to spread the word.

Keep going and good luck.

You may think it isnt much, but every little helps as Tesco say.

I certainly learnt a quick lesson there and have apologised to the 2 poster who i feel deserve it and will continue on, currently i think in a small tiny part of 2 websites we have garnered around 1,000 people who would commit to it so far.

So on we go that is without advertising it, setting the other plans in place to get it out and also against some heavy opposition.

So there is the desire for it to happen.

As for the people of influence and wealth, well some have been approached and others are about too.

[MrSifter 181]

That idea has been mooted on FF as the "quick" solution, although one of the main pro posters did admit the idea was mooted about 2 years ago first and they still havent got anywhere near 5000 bears with 5k spare.

I would support it 100% if it happened, but its more unlikely than this IMO.

Has a serious scheme ever been proposed or launched?

I just think it'd be easier if it was set at 5,000 people with a minimum £5,000 target subscription. It doesn't have to be capped in terms of numbers.

I think your number of 500,000 is way beyond optimistic. 100,000 would be optimistic and likely nearer 50,000 if you were lucky.

In an ideal world we'd have 100,000 joining for £500 each and then annual subs after that of £50 or so but I just don't see it happening at that level of numbers. It's very easy to over estimate how much Rangers really mean to people. Especially to people like us who spend our time obsessing about the club. For the majority I think it's more of a casual thing in their life.

[RangersForMe3 31]

ive never put your idea down m8, infact if you look at my posts i have said i would sign up to you plan no problem and also praised your idea.

the only thing i have critisised about your plan is the funding plan as i think 500,000 members is far to optimistic.. as for posting the plan i had been working on, i just worked on it as something to pass the time, i have no way of putting it into play. therefor posted it for you to read and see if it would maybe help or give your more ideas to work into your own plan.

if you are not willing to change your plan at all then your no better than a dictator just as whyte and murray

Look read the posts, the 500,000 is expressed as 250,000 buying 2 and the number 500,000 is a figure plucked IT IS NOT SET IN STONE.

and what you did, is more than once try and force your views on this thread, there was no need for you to put your whole thing up, that was both childish and not helpful.

if you want to get your idea some weight, make your own thread, nobody stopped you.

I have not once said that anything is set in stone and repeatedly said that the numbers are insignificant at this early stage as they will take care of themselves, you have chosen to ignore this to feed your petty agenda.

This is a thread to try and unite the fans in a clear model that has ALL points out upfront.

I cant for the life of me understand why you keep adding your bit in when i told you via PM we would look at your ideas, just because i didnt want an immediate meeting i felt wouldnt get anyone anywhere you left it at that.

All ideas are welcome, flooding the tread with your own "plan" is not.

[krissg910 110]

Look read the posts, the 500,000 is expressed as 250,000 buying 2 and the number 500,000 is a figure plucked IT IS NOT SET IN STONE.

and what you did, is more than once try and force your views on this thread, there was no need for you to put your whole thing up, that was both childish and not helpful.

if you want to get your idea some weight, make your own thread, nobody stopped you.

I have not once said that anything is set in stone and repeatedly said that the numbers are insignificant at this early stage as they will take care of themselves, you have chosen to ignore this to feed your petty agenda.

This is a thread to try and unite the fans in a clear model that has ALL points out upfront.

I cant for the life of me understand why you keep adding your bit in when i told you via PM we would look at your ideas, just because i didnt want an immediate meeting i felt wouldnt get anyone anywhere you left it at that.

All ideas are welcome, flooding the tread with your own "plan" is not.

fair enough m8 and i apologise for posting the full plan. but like i said mine was only down as something to pass the time. i was not trying to hijack your thread or get support for the plan i posted.

good luck and i hope it works as the idea is a very good one

[TheLawMan 6,240]

The only way this scheme would work would be for to have a huge name who pumped who had capital available(or the means to have it available) but didnt take majority holding. You would need a circa £15m overdraft as income is volatile across the year meaning you will find yourselves overdrawn in certain months, especially if the fans income is dripping inwardly.

At best, i reckon 40,000 at £20 per month would make up the £10m shortfall per year, though dont understimate just how difficult it would be to get 40,000 agreeing to £20 per month, not withstanding anything like redundancies or people falling on bad times(how do you replace their £20 per month when they cant afford it)

Start looking at that kind of model and you would get somewhere......but there has to be a 30-49% guy or guys who have access to the right people and investment.