RangersFanOwnership Model

[RangersForMe3 31]

Excellent plan mate, and i dare say a full Ibrox tomorrow would be a great launching pad to get the word round,I have emailed all my Rangers mates and work colleagues

to spread your plan around great work, time to act is now.

The time is now mate definately, get the word spread in your part of the stand, and if everyone follows suit it will be gathering pace quickly, shame we dont have an info, but please, please tell as many people at the game tomorrow to come and view this thread and give it support.

The more fans we have on the4 board the easier it will be to get a figurehead to endorse it.

The fans will make it happen

[RangersForMe3 31]

It's a decent idea on paper but without major backers, that's all it is... Just talk!

Wish you all the best though in trying to set it up.

Holy f*ck, where does it start then? at the end?

Absolute waste of a post IMO (no real offence meant)

[Hoodster 162]

Leeds......

My point is that we can talk numbers for days on end but it means nothing. No-one knows how many will join a movement like this until there is an actual movement to join.

The key is therefore to get it started.

People are saying, 500k will not happens, it may be 250k max, but who knows??

Let me ask you this........ where does discussing numbers actually get us?

[RangersForMe3 31]

I agree with everything you have just said. My point is, the jump from 12k to 500k is a huge amount of people. I honestly dont think that 488k people didn't pledge because of the reasons you have stated. My opinion is that we could get about 200000 regular subscribers and the numbers should be built around a much lower minimum amount to allow breathing space.

I think your idea is fantastic btw and would love to see it off the ground, and any information you provide me/other fans with in terms of what we can do to help I am sure everyone would clambering to get involved. I just don't think those numbers are realistic.

The numbers are insignificant just now as i stated in a much earlier post, it is the vehicle in which to drive it is what this is about.

Only time will tell, but i feel having to keep stating the above is just wasting time, we should be all looking to pull together and tell as many people at Ibrox about it, ask them to visit the thread and give it their support now

[RangersForMe3 31]

Leeds......

My point is that we can talk numbers for days on end but it means nothing. No-one knows how many will join a movement like this until there is an actual movement to join.

The key is therefore to get it started.

People are saying, 500k will not happens, it may be 250k max, but who knows??

Let me ask you this........ where does discussing numbers actually get us?

Very well put mate, excellent.

I'm not on here asking for advice and ideas, this is a model that is ready to go.

I am asking the fans now to spread the word

[disgruntled_bear 157]

Holy f*ck, where does it start then? at the end?

Absolute waste of a post IMO (no real offence meant)

It starts when you have some serious backers, all you have right now is a Idea. It's not a dig at you, but you're trying to get some of our fans hopes up on a idea with nothing backing it up.

As I said I wish you all the best trying to get this up and running. But until then, it's no better than what the RST are trying to do (no offence)

[nachothelegend 1,932]

Have you taken this to VB too mate and an email to all the Associations and NARSA would get interest going.

We need a big name Walter IMO to get this off the ground .Only then once he or an othet is involved then this can and will spread.

Walter Smiths Blue and white Army can Mobilise.

The time is nowfor this.IMO

[nachothelegend 1,932]

Have you taken this to VB too mate and an email to all the Associations and NARSA would get interest going.

We need a big name Walter IMO to get this off the ground .Only then once he or an othet is involved then this can and will spread.

Walter Smiths Blue and white Army can Mobilise.

The time is nowfor this.IMO

[Leeds_Bear 8,112]

Leeds......

My point is that we can talk numbers for days on end but it means nothing. No-one knows how many will join a movement like this until there is an actual movement to join.

The key is therefore to get it started.

People are saying, 500k will not happens, it may be 250k max, but who knows??

Let me ask you this........ where does discussing numbers actually get us?

It gives us a realistic I base to launch from. If you say 500k and only 100k join then you have a lot of fans left dissolutioned and worried the idea will fall apart. If you set small realistic targets to begin with then you have a strong small base to fall back on. Numbers are extremely relevant, if you go to the people mentioned in the original thread and give them unrealistic figures then unfortunately I can't see them backing it.

I need to reiterate I am behind this 100% and think it can work.

[RangersForMe3 31]

It starts when you have some serious backers, all you have right now is a Idea. It's not a dig at you, but you're trying to get some of our fans hopes up on a idea with nothing backing it up.

As I said I wish you all the best trying to get this up and running. But until then, it's no better than what the RST are trying to do (no offence)

Ok, well do we get get backing without putting the idea out there?

And if you bothered to read the whole thread you will see numurous people are being contacted today with regards to backing.

But then why read the thing when you can just try and pour scorn on it.

All plans start with an idea FFS

There are 2 types of people

Those trying to make things happen

Those sitting at their PC belittling every idea that comes their way, doing nothing to help, just genrally being half arsed.

[Leeds_Bear 8,112]

The numbers are insignificant just now as i stated in a much earlier post, it is the vehicle in which to drive it is what this is about.

Only time will tell, but i feel having to keep stating the above is just wasting time, we should be all looking to pull together and tell as many people at Ibrox about it, ask them to visit the thread and give it their support now

I love the idea pal. I am trying to get my point across without criticising the idea, so if that's how it has come across my apologies. I was just stating my opinion on what I think the numbers will be. As have others in the thread. Honestly dont see the harm in that.

Edit. We could also do with having this plan listed on the RM bloggers pages and a separate HTML website. So people don't have to visit a forum and read it in a thread. Gives it a much more official feel aswell. 1and1.co.uk allows you to set up websites with whatever domain you wish. Would also give people a link to share via twitter and fbook.

[disgruntled_bear 157]

Ok, well do we get get backing without putting the idea out there?

And if you bothered to read the whole thread you will see numurous people are being contacted today with regards to backing.

But then why read the thing when you can just try and pour scorn on it.

All plans start with an idea FFS

There are 2 types of people

Those trying to make things happen

Those sitting at their PC belittling every idea that comes their way, doing nothing to help, just genrally being half arsed.

I have read the whole thread, hence why I've commented. These 2 types of people you're harking on about. Is people who live in a dream world, and people who are actually living in reality.

It's a simple enough question and some points that are getting discussed. If this is to work you need some serious backers. This is our problem, it's been our problem for a long time. You ain't the first to think of this type of plan before, and you won't be the last.

Until you have some working capital behind you from the start! this idea wont work, and I'm not talking about fans all chipping in. That further down the line in this approach, I'm talking about somebody, putting money in upfront to set it up. If you have the working capital right now, then fair enough, if not. Then what I'm pointing out is a fair enough point. It's just a idea, just like many others.

[Hoodster 162]

It gives us a realistic I base to launch from. If you say 500k and only 100k join then you have a lot of fans left dissolutioned and worried the idea will fall apart. If you set small realistic targets to begin with then you have a strong small base to fall back on. Numbers are extremely relevant, if you go to the people mentioned in the original thread and give them unrealistic figures then unfortunately I can't see them backing it.

I need to reiterate I am behind this 100% and think it can work. The OP said he was open to suggestions, that was my suggestion. Honestly don't see the harm in considering all roads and eventualities..

No problem Leeds, the main thing is we are both behind the plan. It needs someone to see it through and I hope the OP gets the fans backing, figurehead and legal team he needs. I truly believe the fans are wanting this and wanting a group we can trust. A group where we know that our money will be used for what it is meant for.

[RangersForMe3 31]

I love the idea pal. I am trying to get my point across without criticising the idea, so if that's how it has come across my apologies. I was just stating my opinion on what I think the numbers will be. As have others in the thread. Honestly dont see the harm in that.

Edit. We could also do with having this plan listed on the RM bloggers pages and a separate HTML website. So people don't have to visit a forum and read it in a thread. Gives it a much more official feel aswell. 1and1.co.uk allows you to set up websites with whatever domain you wish. Would also give people a link to share via twitter and fbook.

Earlier in the thread the posters Simplythebestest & Waldo both offered to build and host our website for free on their server, so we just need to build it asap and then we will make it known, as well as Twitter and Fb pages.

We will go all out and do everything we can to get it moving ASAP

[Leeds_Bear 8,112]

Earlier in the thread the posters Simplythebestest & Waldo both offered to build and host our website for free on their server, so we just need to build it asap and then we will make it known, as well as Twitter and Fb pages.

We will go all out and do everything we can to get it moving ASAP

didnt see that. This kind of idea will be slow moving to begin with, but once moving it will be a huge unstoppable force.

Do you need someone to monitor the twitter or fb?

[RangersForMe3 31]

I have read the whole thread, hence why I've commented. These 2 types of people you're harking on about. Is people who live in a dream world, and people who are actually living in reality.

It's a simple enough question and some points that are getting discussed. If this is to work you need some serious backers. This is our problem, it's been our problem for a long time. You ain't the first to think of this type of plan before, and you won't be the last.

Until you have some working capital behind you from the start! this idea wont work, and I'm not talking about fans all chipping in. That further down the line in this approach, I'm talking about somebody, putting money in upfront to set it up. If you have the working capital right now, then fair enough, if not. Then what I'm pointing out is a fair enough point. It's just a idea, just like many others.

And what businessman is going to come in and put his money into the club, spend all the hard work clearing it all up then giving a nice shiny model to the fans?

I am all ears.

I can accept that you are not in favour of it, i also accept your point of view that it wont work, that is entirely your right to think that, i dont really understand why you are inhabiting a thread you have no faith in and also spending time doing it with no real interest in it, except to add negativity to it.

I really dont understand, because if it was a thread i had no interest in then i would just keep away from it because i had no interest.

Leave us to have a go, it may fail, it may fail spectacularly but what we do not need are more obstacles and pointless opinions from people against it, we have enough on our plate.

I admire you coming on and giving us your feedback, i mean that sincerely, but there is no real point hanging around anymore.

We are trying to make something work, we need support not criticism.

Sincerely and i mean it, i do appreciate you taking the time to give your feedback.

[RangersForMe3 31]

didnt see that. This kind of idea will be slow moving to begin with, but once moving it will be a huge unstoppable force.

Do you need someone to monitor the twitter or fb?

We will need all the help we can get from everyone.

it might be that we will need a few people to run each site, so that people are not spending all their spare time doing this and not with their family.

The more the merrier, i will add your name to the list at the bottom of the OP

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Firstly, kudos for the idea and effort.

However:

Fans ownership will never work in Scotland for various reasons.

No banks will give a £15m overdraft facility anymore so who is going to fund that ?

What happens when the club makes a £10m loss. Who covers it and what liability do the fans have ?

Lets say you give everyone a £5 discount for every match ticket and 50,000 investors take you up on that for 10 games a season, then thats £2.5m revenue hole taken out of the club.

The merchandising is tied up to 2016 so no chance to do anything there.

Why would open all these strategic shops up suddenly turn a profit in an economic downturn when they werent doing so in a better climate ?

These are just some of the issues a fans ownership would bring up.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

And what businessman is going to come in and put his money into the club, spend all the hard work clearing it all up then giving a nice shiny model to the fans?

I am all ears.

I can accept that you are not in favour of it, i also accept your point of view that it wont work, that is entirely your right to think that, i dont really understand why you are inhabiting a thread you have no faith in and also spending time doing it with no real interest in it, except to add negativity to it.

I really dont understand, because if it was a thread i had no interest in then i would just keep away from it because i had no interest.

Leave us to have a go, it may fail, it may fail spectacularly but what we do not need are more obstacles and pointless opinions from people against it, we have enough on our plate.

I admire you coming on and giving us your feedback, i mean that sincerely, but there is no real point hanging around anymore.

We are trying to make something work, we need support not criticism.

Sincerely and i mean it, i do appreciate you taking the time to give your feedback.

Ive not read the exchanges above, but in order for something to work, you are better forewarned about all the pitfalls to enable you to think through them firstly.

Nodding dogs running with ideas without any challenges is EXACTLY how we have ended up in the mess under both our previous regimes.

[krissg910 110]

heres my plan. its a work in progress

fan ownership wont work without borrowing a large chunk of cash

Rangers buyrangers!

The clubwill no longer be owned by anyone, it will be owned by the ranger’s fans, fanswho buy a membership to the club.

Memberships

Will cost a payment of £100 for every seasonyou want to be a member. For this fee you will receive 1 vote and benefits yetdecided.

Your votewill be used to who has a place on the board (anyone can apply) There will be 6directors voted for and 3 who are employed (9 man board).

The 3 whoare employed by the club will need to be trained in certain fields that areneeded to run a club, for instance 1 will need to be an accountant.

You willalso vote on other matters for example- if an offer came in to buy the namingrights of the stadium, we had 2 sponsorship deals that were worth the samevalue. If safe standing was introduced where would it go ect ect.

Boardelections will be every 2^nd year as I think a person needs more than12months to make his mark on the position.

All board members will be accountable tomembers.

There willbe a members only website where votes will be held, members only news, forumect ect.

An agm withall vote holders invited once per year.

Funds

On controlof the club being acquired we will set to secure funds against ranger’s assetsto take care of all debt. The money borrowed against rangers assets will bepaid back via the membership income. This way rangers fans are buying the cluband the club will be controlled by the fans.

The aim isthat within 5-10yrs the money that is borrowed will be cleared. Rangers fanswill have bought rangers with it no longer being a club 1 single person canown.

A wage capwill be set on the squad with a much bigger emphasis put on producing our own.Total rehaul on youth setup creating a real football academy.

The clubwill be run on its own income/turnover with any profits being put into thesquad and youth development.

Once alldebt is sorted. Wage structures will be changed accordingly and all income frommembership will go towards the club for transfers/wages/upgrade/repairs ect.

Membershipwill be limited to 50 votes max/per person, so no one single person caninfluence club decisions.

I will takeon the merchandise running for the club, with much better range of club wearbeing available. All possible avenues of how this is made, by who and how it issold will be explored.

All vitallegal moves will be taken to make sure membership fees are used as stated.

Ifmembership targets (amount of members) are not met on a consistent basis votelimits will need to be changed accordingly.

For thefirst few years things will be tough and the main aim will be to change theclub to a successful business that supports itself.

[RangersForMe3 31]

Firstly, kudos for the idea and effort.

However:

Fans ownership will never work in Scotland for various reasons.

No banks will give a £15m overdraft facility anymore so who is going to fund that ?

What happens when the club makes a £10m loss. Who covers it and what liability do the fans have ?

Lets say you give everyone a £5 discount for every match ticket and 50,000 investors take you up on that for 10 games a season, then thats £2.5m revenue hole taken out of the club.

The merchandising is tied up to 2016 so no chance to do anything there.

Why would open all these strategic shops up suddenly turn a profit in an economic downturn when they werent doing so in a better climate ?

These are just some of the issues a fans ownership would bring up.

Did you read the OP?

Why would we need a 15m overdraft? the monthly money will cover the running costs of the club (at worst the deficit)

How can the club make a 10m loss, again it is all laid out to prevent that happening

Who said they would get 10 a season? who said it would be £5, it wont ever be 10 a season

Isnt that merchandising deal null and void under administration?

These are idea's I QUITE CLEARLY STATED THESE WERE JUST IDEA'S THE MEMBERS COULD VOTE ON IF THEY WANTED THEM

All ideas are open if the fans own the club and run it.

[RangersForMe3 31]

Ive not read the exchanges above, but in order for something to work, you are better forewarned about all the pitfalls to enable you to think through them firstly.

Nodding dogs running with ideas without any challenges is EXACTLY how we have ended up in the mess under both our previous regimes.

Well the ideas have been thought about and covered in the OP, you just never saw them.

People just looking for the negative way out are exactly why are support is so lethargical

[disgruntled_bear 157]

And what businessman is going to come in and put his money into the club, spend all the hard work clearing it all up then giving a nice shiny model to the fans?

I am all ears.

I can accept that you are not in favour of it, i also accept your point of view that it wont work, that is entirely your right to think that, i dont really understand why you are inhabiting a thread you have no faith in and also spending time doing it with no real interest in it, except to add negativity to it.

I really dont understand, because if it was a thread i had no interest in then i would just keep away from it because i had no interest.

Leave us to have a go, it may fail, it may fail spectacularly but what we do not need are more obstacles and pointless opinions from people against it, we have enough on our plate.

I admire you coming on and giving us your feedback, i mean that sincerely, but there is no real point hanging around anymore.

We are trying to make something work, we need support not criticism.

Sincerely and i mean it, i do appreciate you taking the time to give your feedback.

what businessman is going to come in and put his money into the club, spend all the hard work clearing it all up then giving a nice shiny model to the fans?

You have just answered my question, and why this idea like the many others will run into serious difficulties from the start. Unless we can prove without a doubt, they can get a return on their investment. "WE" need to find somebody though, to get this type of idea off the ground or it will fail.

See this is where you're are wrong, I am interested in a viable model that works, with a serious backer from the start to help set it up. That's why I wish you luck trying to find a way, but until that day is here. As I said it's sadly not a viable model at this time.

Like many idea's you get constructive criticism, it's not a lack of support. It's just valid questions that need addressed. So this type of idea, can become more than a idea.

[RangersForMe3 31]

heres my plan. its a work in progress

fan ownership wont work without borrowing a large chunk of cash

Rangers buyrangers!

The clubwill no longer be owned by anyone, it will be owned by the rangers fans, fanswho buy a membership to the club.

Memberships

Will cost a payment of £100 for every seasonyou want to be a member. For this fee you will receive 1 vote and benefits yetdecided.

Your votewill be used to who has a place on the board (anyone can apply) There will be 6directors voted for and 3 who are employed (9 man board).

The 3 whoare employed by the club will need to be trained in certain fields that areneeded to run a club, for instance 1 will need to be an accountant.

You willalso vote on other matters for example- if an offer came in to buy the namingrights of the stadium, we had 2 sponsorship deals that were worth the samevalue. If safe standing was introduced where would it go ect ect.

Boardelections will be every 2^nd year as I think a person needs more than12months to make his mark on the position.

All board members will be accountable tomembers.

There willbe a members only website where votes will be held, members only news, forumect ect.

An agm withall vote holders invited once per year.

Funds

On controlof the club being acquired we will set to secure funds against rangers assetsto take care of all debt. The money borrowed against rangers assets will bepaid back via the membership income. This way rangers fans are buying the cluband the club will be controlled by the fans.

The aim isthat within 5-10yrs the money that is borrowed will be cleared. Rangers fanswill have bought rangers with it no longer being a club 1 single person canown.

A wage capwill be set on the squad with a much bigger emphasis put on producing our own.Total rehaul on youth setup creating a real football academy.

The clubwill be run on its own income/turnover with any profits being put into thesquad and youth development.

Once alldebt is sorted. Wage structures will be changed accordingly and all income frommembership will go towards the club for transfers/wages/upgrade/repairs ect.

Membershipwill be limited to 50 votes max/per person, so no one single person caninfluence club decisions.

I will takeon the merchandise running for the club, with much better range of club wearbeing available. All possible avenues of how this is made, by who and how it issold will be explored.

All vitallegal moves will be taken to make sure membership fees are used as stated.

Ifmembership targets (amount of members) are not met on a consistent basis votelimits will need to be changed accordingly.

For thefirst few years things will be tough and the main aim will be to change theclub to a successful business that supports itself.

Listen you have tried to hijack this thread for your own idea, from day 1

IF YOU WANT TO TELL PEOPLE ABOUT YOUR IDEA MAKE A THREAD ON IT

Dont continually hijack mine ok.

All you are doing is causing unrest.

Like i said, use your own thread and keep out of mine, this isnt baout your idea and the fact nobody is listening to you.

Jesus what hope do we have when our own are more concerned about their own profile than anything else.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Did you read the OP?

Why would we need a 15m overdraft? the monthly money will cover the running costs of the club (at worst the deficit)

How can the club make a 10m loss, again it is all laid out to prevent that happening

Who said they would get 10 a season? who said it would be £5, it wont ever be 10 a season

Isnt that merchandising deal null and void under administration?

These are idea's I QUITE CLEARLY STATED THESE WERE JUST IDEA'S THE MEMBERS COULD VOTE ON IF THEY WANTED THEM

All ideas are open if the fans own the club and run it.

I did read the OP.

the club costs £4m per month to run. The idea that you could get 400,000 fans contributing £10 a month is not very likely im afraid to say.

the club can make a £10m deficit because it has running costs of £45m per year and semi-guaranteed income of £35m per year. How do you propose to reduce the outgoings by £10m per year without losing the income (ie, take £10m of wages and you could be battling with the likes of Hearts and Motherwell for Euro places which will have a knock on effect on attendances)

Ok so it may not be 10 a season, this was an idea mooted in the past but accept under your model its unlikely.

No, it wont be null and void under administration. It would be under liquidation though.