Our team isn't that good.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,856]

All this not SPL level is a cop out IMO.

Alexander, Cribari & McCulloch have all played in European competition. Shiels, Sandaza & Black were talked about as players of the year at established SPL clubs last year & Little is a full international. Throw in the talent of Templeton, Mckay & MacLeod and then you have the basis of a squad who for the most part should be good enough to compete at SPL level.

I didn't expect us to win yesterday, but we should have competed and we didn't. We were made to look like complete amateurs. Obviously playing against part time players every week is affecting the players sharpness because they looked a yard short in all areas.

I still think spending a rumoured 6 million pounds a year on player wages is shocking and tbh I don't see why we need to when we only have to negotiate our way through two borderline part time leagues & people don't have aspirations for us to punch above our weight in the cups.

[keithgersbear 3,225]

In a funny way, we probably would have been better to sign the shit from division 3 and when it came to the cups, they would be mentally perhaps more up for it and perhaps not get as embarrassed like we did. We have some utter shite in the squad. The back 4 is just awful. Why did we sign Emílson Cribari? He is awful.

[Chef 436]

it is relevant, for that reason.

you will need to go through the players wages with me, how things were sorted during players being tuped and what agreements were in place then, our need of players but also our need to stand by many who stayed and what legalities were involved with each. Then we may know what's a relevance and what is not so relevant in the grand scheme of WAGE BILL WAGE BILL

Position of circumstance

[keithgersbear 3,225]

All this not SPL level is a cop out IMO.

Alexander, Cribari & McCulloch have all played in European competition. Shiels, Sandaza & Black were talked about as players of the year at established SPL clubs last year & Little is a full international. Throw in the talent of Templeton, Mckay & MacLeod and then you have the basis of a squad who for the most part should be good enough to compete at SPL level.

I didn't expect us to win yesterday, but we should have competed and we didn't. We were made to look like complete amateurs. Obviously playing against part time players every week is affecting the players sharpness because they looked a yard short in all areas.

I still think spending a rumoured 6 million pounds a year on player wages is shocking and tbh I don't see why we need to when we only have to negotiate our way through two borderline part time leagues & people don't have aspirations for us to punch above our weight in the cups.

The team we had which won 3 in a row had the likes of Davie Weir, Madjid Bougherra, Papac, Naismith, Lafferty, Jelavic, Miller, Davis etc. Proper quality for the SPL. We are miles away from having a group of players like that. This squad is extremely average simply down to the division we play in.

Those sorts of players will not come to play for us until we are back in the top division.

[pcbear 10,923]

Charlie Green is watching the same fare as us, your call Chas.

[No.12 508]

I'm sick of all the wages talk.

You'd think with the amount Real Madrid, Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd pay in wages they never lose or play badly.

They would no doubt have a problem with paying all that after going into admin, losing almost an entire squad and starting back in the 4th tier of their domestic leagues.. and drawing with the worst team in the entire country. Just my opinion...

[djbroxybear 660]

Ally nor the Backroom staff seem to have the ability to get the best from this bunch yesterday was an opportunity to show we better than where we are in Div 3.. Players seem to look not up for games and going through motions with the players we have we should be winning Div 3 20 points + ffs... We are not looking fit and Ally seems to send out teams with no shape or urgency players played out of position etc we are going backwards not forwards Ally is not the right man to take us forward would you trust him with 10 million i wouldn't and everybody in club yesterday was saying the same thing..

Ally can win Div3 and with his credibility in tact and move upstairs within the club we need to bring in a new management team to take us forward next season no ifs or buts this is another john Greig scenario..

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,856]

The team we had which won 3 in a row had the likes of Davie Weir, Madjid Bougherra, Papac, Naismith, Lafferty, Jelavic, Miller, Davis etc. Proper quality for the SPL. We are miles away from having a group of players like that. This squad is extremely average simply down to the division we play in.

Those sorts of players will not come to play for us until we are back in the top division.

You are missing my point completely.

I'm not taking about our players as if they are good enough for us to win the SPL, or that the current lot hold a candle to a previous squad because they don't.

I'm talking about the guys we have being good enough to put on a competitive game against a mid table SPL side who, until yesterday, hadn't even won a home game since August and we didn't do that.

There was no fight, bottle or spirit and that's the bare minimum than I expect from any Rangers team.

Yesterday was an occasion for the Wallace's, Shiels', Black's & Sandaza's to early their spurs and McCoist to show his managerial ability by getting the players up for it, making us competitive & organised, even if it resulted in defeat and none of that happened yesterday.

[keithgersbear 3,225]

You are missing my point completely.

I'm not taking about our players as if they are good enough for us to win the SPL, or that the current lot hold a candle to a previous squad because they don't.

I'm talking about the guys we have being good enough to put on a competitive game against a mid table SPL side who, until yesterday, hadn't even won a home game since August and we didn't do that.

There was no fight, bottle or spirit and that's the bare minimum than I expect from any Rangers team.

Yesterday was an occasion for the Wallace's, Shiels', Black's & Sandaza's to early their spurs and McCoist to show his managerial ability by getting the players up for it, making us competitive & organised, even if it resulted in defeat and none of that happened yesterday.

What Dundee Utd did was basically show teams how to beat lower league teams which lack shape or discipline. We just got exposed and got beat by the better team. The August stat if anything shows just how bad we are.

[Jonnyjardine 20]

For some perspective.

ICT employ players on vastly inferior salaries than to Rangers.

ICT training facilities are vastly inferior to Rangers.

ICT play like a well organised, motivated team.

The motivation and organisation and PASSION of any team is 100 per cent down to the coach.

I doubt if they would have rolled over in a cup tie like Rangers did yesterday.

[minstral 5,375]

How much did United spend on their squad that beat us yesterday. I would bet that it would not be much more than our squad.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,856]

What Dundee Utd did was basically show teams how to beat lower league teams which lack shape or discipline. We just got exposed and got beat by the better team. The August stat if anything shows just how bad we are.

We aren't the stereotypical lower league club though. We are a full time football club filled with full time players who for the most part were playing at a reasonable level less than a year ago and should still be able to compete with the guys they were up against yesterday.

And as for the lack of discipline & organisation then do we point the finger at McCoist as the manager surely that's one of the first things he should be installing in any team that goes out on the park?

[keithgersbear 3,225]

We aren't the stereotypical lower league club though. We are a full time football club filled with full time players who for the most part were playing at a reasonable level less than a year ago and should still be able to compete with the guys they were up against yesterday.

And as for the lack of discipline & organisation then do we point the finger at McCoist as the manager surely that's one of the first things he should be installing in any team that goes out on the park?

Sure but we lack the players to compete with SPL squads consistently. Our squad is full of young players who are inexperienced. Ally isn't a good manager, we all know that.

[simplythebest 11,453]

What Dundee Utd did was basically show teams how to beat lower league teams which lack shape or discipline. We just got exposed and got beat by the better team. The August stat if anything shows just how bad we are.

Yes, and the moaning is because many believe, while we're not what we were, we shouldn't be that bad.

[Bertent 2,081]

The teams quality or lack there of is one part of the equation the other part is the failure to achieve the full potential of what talent they have and poor levels f fitness for afull time professional sportsman.

[He's blue he's white 717]

The teams quality or lack there of is one part of the equation the other part is the failure to achieve the full potential of what talent they have and poor levels f fitness for afull time professional sportsman.

On the money

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,856]

Sure but we lack the players to compete with SPL squads consistently. Our squad is full of young players who are inexperienced. Ally isn't a good manager, we all know that.

But Alexander, Wallace, Cribari, Black, Shiels, Templeton & Sandaza, who all started yesterday, aren't young & have been esthablaihed players in top leagues and should be good enough to compete in a one off game, yet every single one of them looked like players plucked from the juniors at a days notice.

Basically at the end of the day our senior players and our manager let us down yesterday and with it being the most important game of the season in some fans eyes the scrutiny in the aftermath was always going to be more intense than it would be if this was a "less important" game.

Some of the criticism is OTT but I think a lot of it is justified as these issues have been here all season and there aren't any signs of it getting any better.

[He's blue he's white 717]

But Alexander, Wallace, Cribari, Black, Shiels, Templeton & Sandaza, who all started yesterday, aren't young & have been esthablaihed players in top leagues and should be good enough to compete in a one off game, yet every single one of them looked like players plucked from the juniors at a days notice.

Basically at the end of the day our senior players and our manager let us down yesterday and with it being the most important game of the season in some fans eyes the scrutiny in the aftermath was always going to be more intense than it would be if this was a "less important" game.

Some of the criticism is OTT but I think a lot of it is justified as these issues have been here all season and there aren't any signs of it getting any better.

and part of last season

[ianb1547 3,767]

Were certainly not SPL level.

My big gripe is I'm reading rangers class comments over and over when the ones saying the players are not rangers class need to realise. we ain't at a level where they should be judged as what we are accustomed too.

Im one who has mentioned the lack of Rangers class Chef....but Im not on about their ability, or their previous SPL experience etc.

Im referring to their character, their discipline, their motivation and desire to wear the jersey.

If truth be told I can deal with being beaten by a better team on the day - as long as every one of our guys has done his all to compete and try to win.

That is Rangers Class. And it was sadly lacking yesterday (as it has been on a number of occasions this season).

[Chef 436]

Im one who has mentioned the lack of Rangers class Chef....but Im not on about their ability, or their previous SPL experience etc.

Im referring to their character, their discipline, their motivation and desire to wear the jersey.

If truth be told I can deal with being beaten by a better team on the day - as long as every one of our guys has done his all to compete and try to win.

That is Rangers Class. And it was sadly lacking yesterday (as it has been on a number of occasions this season).

without a doubt it was lacking and a big disappointment it is too, it's just when I read it all to often from the he is shite brigade I don't get it.

[jamess 3,429]

All the arguments about 'where we are' are fully valid and would explain it all if this game was months ago. But the basic fact is that we have made no improvement in over half a season. Something is dramatically wrong. A team that still looks like they were rounded up in the pub the night before. Something needs sorted - and I would be delighted if Ally was the man to do it. But I am increasingly worried he doesn't know what to do.

[Blue corn flakes 1,282]

was anyone really surprised about yesterdays result.

[fat malky 11]

if I turn up at work and don`t perform I get a Rocket from my Boss ,this lot have been swinging the lead all season and still no reaction from the management

[scarkev 3,540]

was anyone really surprised about yesterdays result.

I wasn't surprised by the result or the performance. I was disappointed by the character shown and also despite all season hearing excuse after excuse for why Black, Sheils etc have struggled to adapt to SFL3 it was obvious to see either that they lack desire to play for us or we are doing something wrong tactically/physically (based of performances with other teams).

The thing I dont get is if "our team isnt that good", which I would agree with, why do we have the 2nd biggest wage bill in Scottish football? Something is going wrong either on the training ground or in the players heads because we should be doing alot more. I think we missed a trick not going out and bringing in the best young players we could with of mixture of SFL experienced lads. We would be better off financially and have a much better chance of progressing with a younger squad.

[Moody Blue 9,395]

The ultimate brief was not just to win the 3rd division, it was to build this club back up to return to being the best in the country. We will not do this under McCoist or bringing back Walter. We MUST move forward. I don't want us to have to spend millions once we get back to the spl, if we set the proper foundations and playing football the right way then the team will develop until they get back to the top, then its just strengthening not a complete rebuild. We have to stop doing what we've done in the past, that's why we're here. Forget this if the mhanks spend £5 we'll spend £10, let them spend £10, we'll pay £5 and make much more money than them when we sell on the young, hungry players.

I just wish the McCoist lovers would open their eyes a bit, PLG was hounded out for far less than the shambles currently on show.