TBB committee

[tannerall 25,935]

Original Billy Boy's Commitee members went through the initiation ceremony with Big V , then agreed to a vow of secrecy to save further embarrassment.

[NamibianBear 1,851]

I completely agree as to the reason we sing or used to sing it. I'm just saying, if this really went to court, you could argue that a club that represents all that is British, and the person apparently causing offence being British is merely proudly singing of a time when our own government fought off a militia who tried to overthrow our government. Surely a judge would agree that it's not for the police officers who enforce this ridiculous law to decide in which context an individual chooses to sing this.

Surely if someone is offended, they're entitled to take it to the police or court. However, with this law our government is getting offended on behalf of other people.

Perfect example is of the scum fan found not guilty.

"But Sheriff Richard Davidson ruled during the trial last week that police officers could not give "opinion" evidence that the song was linked to proscribed terrorist organisations, and then described the new anti-sectarianism legislation McLeish was tried under as "horribly drafted".

Full link:- http://www.bbc.co.uk...entral-22097356

Again, I agree with you entirely but......

The law states you may not encite violence (and/or offence) through any racial, sectarian or other means.

That is up to a court to decide (or throw out in the case you mentioned) but if they find you guilty of causing offence then there is not a whole lot (I am suggesting?) that you could do about it?

Singing about the glorification of the concentration camps set up (by the British) in South Africa would not be exactly PC now either would it?

The main problem, as far as I see it, it that we sing the song to piss "them" off. We don't really care about the words as such, just as long as we get a reaction. Bringing the song back is all about that. Football fans the world over will do anything to get one up on the other team

[kplfishtank 4,662]

Let us remember no one has ever seen the letter from UEFA.

That is probably because it doesn't exist.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

im sure a few well respected fans said they seen it, and of them i would trust them.

[thehost 11,061]

Big Mark seen it

even mr dingwall admits he only saw the back of the paper that baldy was flashing about

no fecker saw it

[thehost 11,061]

im sure a few well respected fans said they seen it, and of them i would trust them.

nope

only the back

the blank bit

[kplfishtank 4,662]

nope

only the back

the blank bit

would the club still have it? maybe it needs an airing to get clarification

[Bad Robot 21,458]

Where is V or is there anyone else who was on the committee that can give us in update ?

[thehost 11,061]

would the club still have it? maybe it needs an airing to get clarification

I started a thread on FF they deleted it.

I started a thread here no one confirmed the saw the front.

Ive asked loads of folks, people like jaaz etc

suck himself

not had one person yet confirm they saw the front

anyone who was there, and have answered me, have always said the same baldy bain talked about a letter picked up a piece of paper, waved it about and all they ever saw was the back of it.

[kplfishtank 4,662]

I started a thread on FF they deleted it.

I started a thread here no one confirmed the saw the front.

Ive asked loads of folks, people like jaaz etc

suck himself

not had one person yet confirm they saw the front

anyone who was there, and have answered me, have always said the same baldy bain talked about a letter picked up a piece of paper, waved it about and all they ever saw was the back of it.

cheers for clearing that up, i just assumed that they seen it.

[thehost 11,061]

cheers for clearing that up, i just assumed that they seen it.

Don't worry mate the best bit is this

When I harp on about it, as I simply don't believe it, they now have the perfect answer.

They would queue up on FF to tell me that it doesn't matter now anyway since the new legislation came in and ergo TBB would automatically fall foul.

Using FF, since inception, it became clear must be around 6/7 years ago that it existed for one reason and one reason only.

It was plainly in cahoots with the club to act as a pressure cooker, allowing a place for folk to vent their spleen before be deleted and carry on with the new editorial agenda.

[TheQueensEleven 1,355]

Again, I agree with you entirely but......

The law states you may not encite violence (and/or offence) through any racial, sectarian or other means.

That is up to a court to decide (or throw out in the case you mentioned) but if they find you guilty of causing offence then there is not a whole lot (I am suggesting?) that you could do about it?

Singing about the glorification of the concentration camps set up (by the British) in South Africa would not be exactly PC now either would it?

The main problem, as far as I see it, it that we sing the song to piss "them" off. We don't really care about the words as such, just as long as we get a reaction. Bringing the song back is all about that. Football fans the world over will do anything to get one up on the other team

Well evidently singing pro IRA songs is PC in Britain. comparing the use of Fenian to singing about concentration camps is just ridiculous. the Fenian Brotherhood attacked our government, therefore we defended ourselves and asserted our dominance. Concentration camps were an act of defence.

My point still stands, it happened with a rangers fan who called Willo Flood a Fenian... The judge basically said there's no proof the use of that phrase would incite public disorder and therefore he wasn't charged via this ridiculous law. Although he as found guilty of lesser charges.

[islandblue 366]

I am sure I read on here and on McMurdos Blog that the Police accepted if the fenian word was changed they would have no problem with the song.Im sure it was a woman cop from the Anti Sectarian lot that was quoted

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,894]

The Police, FoCUS and PF were spoken to

Basically the police were not happy at the phrase "Billy Boys" either since it celebrates the criminal Billy Fullarton.

They also basically said that the entire song would need to be changed and I actually found the original lyrics used in the 1920s to the tune of Marching Through Georgia that Rangers fans used to sing that would probably comply with the current laws.

If we were to take those to the Police and Crown Office etc then that should be OK

BUT.

If this song was brought back, there would be no guarantee that some idiots would not sing the offensive lyrics which could lead to fines etc. I think this is the main reason why there was the blanket ban on TBB in the first place.

The 1920s lyrics by the way were the following, that changed over time to TBB:

Hullo, Hullo We are the Rangers Boys Hullo, Hullo You'll know us by our noise We're down to our knees to see our team At Ibrox or away For we are The Glasgow Rangers Boys

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,894]

I am sure I read on here and on McMurdos Blog that the Police accepted if the fenian word was changed they would have no problem with the song.Im sure it was a woman cop from the Anti Sectarian lot that was quoted

There was more to it than that, they also didn't like the glorification of a criminal.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Needs a good slap, I know a few who are a bit stuck in their ways but to claim Many of our fans are idiots is out of order

It's true though. We have a big fanbase. A percentage of them are idiots. A small percentage of a huge crowd is still allot of folk.

The idiots that continue to sing sectarian crap damage our club.

[Bad Robot 21,458]

BNB surely it's down to the crown office rather than the police to interpret the law?

[tannerall 25,935]

Bill McMurdo was elected by some of this forum's members for the TBB committee, I'm sure he would be more than willing to come on here and discuss it.

[Blue Nosed Babe 20,894]

BNB surely it's down to the crown office rather than the police to interpret the law?

The Police enforce it

The Crown use it to prosecute if they think it has been breached

The Courts interpret and apply it to the situation they are presented with in evidence

If they fuck it up the Appeal Court can look at the law in greater detail to determine if the Court of first instance has fucked it up.

That is actually how it works.

See my new topic on the Latest developments using this new law since the Appeal court have now given us their first decision on a 2012 Act case.

[islandblue 366]

There was more to it than that, they also didn't like the glorification of a criminal.

Im sure there are lines in most football songs that the Police 'Dont Like' but that is irrelevant.Its not up to them to like or dislike .What I thought was sought was whether they accept if we change the Fenian word they can't arrest anyone.

[Copland bear 7,966]

What is this supposedly committee doing? Have they actually spoke with the club, the sfa and the police? What was their response? Change the words to up to our knees in Celtic scum and move forward. I for one want to know what they have done, so if someone from the committee please answer the questions above.

[Gooseman 889]

Surely feinian is a political term, we're the feinian brotherhood not separatists? Could not same be levied against the snp and in particular Alec Salmon, and their I'll thought out independence campaign?

[islandblue 366]

Does anyone from the committee still post here?If so an update would be apprecisted

[StrongbowLoyal. 36]

.

[JCDBigBear 10,836]

Reference "The Billy Boys" song, the committee has been in discussion with the Procurator Fiscal's office and the Police FoCUS group. After some positive responses from both these parties who had initially (albeit tentatively) made encouraging noises which led us to believe that changes to the lyrics would be relatively minimal, we have now received written communication which put an entirely different complexion on the matter. It appears that subsequent to our last discussion with FoCUS. higher authorities have formed a different opinion. This is the general text from the most recent communication:

"It is our understanding that ‘The Billy Boys’ refers to a criminal gang from the Bridgeton area of Glasgow and we can advise that any song sung which relates to criminal activity such as that gang engaged in cannot be given police approval.

Informal discussions have been undertaken with the Football Liaison Procurator Fiscal for the West of Scotland and he has indicated that there is currently no certainty that singing any particular version of ‘The Billy Boys’ can be guaranteed to avoid criminal charges. However, consultation with Crown Office Policy Unit will be required to obtain a formal position from Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service.

We have also now spoken with a representative of the SFA and can advise that the SFA have said that this song has been banned by UEFA so discussions would need to be had with them before the song is brought back into the game.

Even with the changed lyrics, individuals could possibly be encouraged to sing the offensive lyrics which as a result could cause complaints and arrests and such complaints could in turn result in sanctions being imposed on the club. It is therefore essential that the group seek a view from the club on the desirability of this or other songs.

As I advised at the meeting on Friday FoCUS will support the group with guidance on the criminal law, the Lord Advocate’s Guidelines on the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012 and the types of behaviour which has resulted in prosecution."

During our recent meeting with FoCUS it was made plain to us that "up to our knees in Fenian blood" was unacceptable. It now transpires that "Billy" would now require to be replaced as well. It also appears likely that being "up to our knees in any blood" will be looked upon negatively.

[StrongbowLoyal. 36]

Back when supporting your team was not a crime