A Dinosaur rears his head.

[Resting in my account 231]

You don't have to be a Protestant or believe in God to be a loyalist

People keep bringing religion into it but IMO its never been about that

People who aren't loyalists love throwing in the line about religion fading so loyalism is a thing of the past too - that's wrong - loyalism is more valid than ever in this day and age

Exactly, being a Proud Unionist and Loyalist doesn't mean you have to be protestant. I'm not a Protestant but a Proud British Loyal Unionist.

The excuse if the handwringer about being an aethiest is futile

[bluenose48 974]

Great post D'Art again. I too am a dinosaur. I have supported our great club for around 55 years, albeit from the other side of the World.

Raised as a protestant, church on Sunday, BB etc and I am a royalist.

However if you were a first timer on here reading some of the posts on here, you would be forgiven for thinking that unless you were a card carrying member of the KKK you were not welcome as a supporter of Rangers.

I don't care what religion you are, whether you support the Tories or the SNP. I don't care if you want to sing songs about events that happened 400 years ago or don't.

If you support Rangers come what may, you'll do me.

[We Will Follow Rangers 13,386]

the idea of being labeled a dinosaur for expressing your cultural identity is a strange one, its been perpetuated for some time in Scotland, for me its symptomatic of intolerance and political expediency of those who would seek to damage our nation for their own ends. The media and social zeitgeist have made it seem somehow anti modern, anachronistic to believe in values like loyalty, pride in ones nation, of freedom of thought and of religious belief, of tolerance and a sense of honesty and fair play, for that is what it is to be British.

I'm immensely proud of that.

and I'm not a fucking dinosaur.

[BEARGER 339]

That is a blatant lie about the 50s. Religion was still a big part back then.

Think you have misread my post. I agree that religion was a bigger part back then, I was saying that it is not so important now.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I think he acknowledged that we have many supporters who don't hold all of those traditions and that there are some that may actually hold none.

However, a man would have to be blind and ignorant to ignore the obvious. In following Rangers you have to accept the complexion, colour, shape and form of what the club are and even if you are not part of that personally, you nonetheless have made a commitment to that rich heritage. The only alternative is that you somehow wish to change it.

That would truly be bizarre. It reminds me of the hypocrisy of so many who have come as immigrants to the UK for a better life, more freedoms and to embrace a cultural development that offers a greater human opportunity than the failing benighted countries that they often gladly left behind or escaped, but then wish to reshape our nation into the twisted ugly form of their previous shit hole.

If you have accepted who we are, why we are who we are, and that we are who we are and will not be changing, then why are you railing against a post that merely reaffirms our fine identity?

A Spaniard can support Barcelona with all of the cultural and nationalistic baggage that Barcelona carry, and yet be a Spaniard or even a foreigner who shares not one bit of that sentiment. However, I doubt such a supporter would come onto their forums and pour scorn or even cast doubts upon that identity or indeed its integrity, because that would entail a liberty too far.

I did Bilko - the problem with BP9 is that he only sees what he wants to see and then launches his accusations.

Furthermore I appreciate there are those who follow our club, and may I add, are as passionate as I am about her, yet who are not the slightest bit interested in being a Protestant, a Unionist etc. etc.

I appreciate all do not feel this way, but those who do will know exactly what I refer to.

Rangers are not a platform for these other views and never should be.

I believe the term to describe this affliction is blinded by hatred.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Is that last quote Bp9?

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Is that last quote Bp9?

They are the parts of the original article which he convienently chose to ignore.

[bawsburst 1,381]

Says it all the heart and soul of Ibrox epitomised by Our Sovereign Lady GSTQ !

[Carsons Army 4,146]

Fucking hell, this is the first time you've struck a chord with me TWB. If I'm brutally honest most of your typical one line cynicism leaves me cold.

I'm from what's being terms a PUL background. In my youth and beyond I've sang every song in the repertoire. But years of experience has a funny way of tempering ideals.

I've served in the forces, in peace and conflict - and some of the guys I trusted with my life were of Irish catholic extraction. They were and always will be friends.

I detest Celtic Football Club and what they represent. I think the Roman Catholic church is corrupt and continues to do a whole lot of damage in the world. But if I was asked: do I hate people because they happen to be catholic or celtic fans? then the answer would have to be no.

It's enough for me to be proud of who I am and where I came from. I don't need to hate people I don't know because of an accident of birth.

There are good and bad people in every demographic, there are people from our side who are unworthy of their heritage just as there are those from the other lot who are decent human beings.

Life is shades of grey for the most part.

I really cannot find anything in that post that any reasonable person would disagree with and I would like to think that most of my fellow Rangers fans would feel the exact same.

[MaddistonKnight 1,577]

You don't have to be a Protestant or believe in God to be a loyalist

People keep bringing religion into it but IMO its never been about that

People who aren't loyalists love throwing in the line about religion fading so loyalism is a thing of the past too - that's wrong - loyalism is more valid than ever in this day and age

This whole thread has gotten a bit fecked up at points. I am going to add to said fucked up ness!

My old dear is an RC, but rarely if ever sets foot inside the pineapple. She hates football, so is no Rangers fan. But she is fuckin' gung ho British from the tip of her toes to the top of her head, and loves the Queen.

Seems to me she has more in common with the majority of Rangers supporters than one or two of the contributors herein. But I suppose thats the point. It takes allsorts.

But to deny we are a club which has been built on good Protestant working class self reliance and loyalty to Britain and the Crown is a falsehood which is a libel. We did start out as four young men, and we have come a long way in many different ways. No matter your colour or creed, you can pull on the colours of Rangers and become a hero for generations of supporters. It may not have always been that way, but it is that way now and we are a better people for that. But we should never forget what went before us, the good and the bad, for it makes us what we are and what we will become.

Have your own Gods, opinions, politics, but don't ever try and take away, play down or deny that which this club has nurtured on and grown.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Yeah you make a good point not everyone or everything is black and white

[MaddistonKnight 1,577]

That's what I was getting at in some ways. Not everyone "fits the bill" so to speak as a Rangers supporter or as a Loyalist, but that does not take anything away from how the club has grown up. You can be anything you want to be and support Rangers, but denial or worse a dislike for the fabric of our great club seems to me at best bloody ridiculous.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

That's what I was getting at in some ways. Not everyone "fits the bill" so to speak as a Rangers supporter or as a Loyalist, but that does not take anything away from how the club has grown up. You can be anything you want to be and support Rangers, but denial or worse a dislike for the fabric of our great club seems to me at best bloody ridiculous

But your missing the point no one has ever said your not a Rangers fan if your not a loyalist - why do people keep mentioning this myth? My point has been your no better than a taig if you have a problem with the loyalist element at Ibrox and wants rid of it

[elephants stoned 2,994]

.

[MaddistonKnight 1,577]

My apologies, we are singing from the same hymnsheet, my words are not as silken as some others! My point about Rangers and Loyalism was meant to show that you can be, for example, a RC and be loyal to the Queen, and a Rangers supporter and anti-British, as we see on here often enough

I agree with you wholly. There are many rooms in my Father's house, and if you try to burn one down because you don't like it well, you can bring down the whole house.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

[mac4443 87]

I've often been referred to a “dinosaur” - mostly by the new breed of Rangers fans (though age does not seem to be a determination in this equation) who see our Protestant, Unionist, Loyalist and British identity as something... not exactly to be ashamed of.... but quite clearly something they would prefer not to be there. I of course would disagree, but then again as a Protestant, Unionist, Loyalist, British Rangers supporter I would wouldn't I ?

Furthermore I appreciate there are those who follow our club, and may I add, are as passionate as I am about her, yet who are not the slightest bit interested in being a Protestant, a Unionist etc. etc. Times change and so do attitudes and beliefs, often for the better. But for several generations, including my own, Rangers were not just a football club. They represented who we were, what we stood for and the things which we believed in. And it still does today, no matter how society moves on to other things.

No Rangers were not founded for overtly religious reasons, nor were they a bastion of Unionism, Presbyterianism or anything else for that matter, it was simply 4 boys with dream to form a football club for football reasons. But it would be foolhardy and erroneous to suggest that the characteristics and identity alluded to in the opening paragraph did not evolve over time and I would contend, if one was to examine our song repertoire,symbolism and flags, is still very prevalent today.

We are not just supporting a football club, but a set of beliefs, of standards, when we sing we do so with a passion which goes beyond sport, into the realms of a celebration of identity and culture. They are our club and we are their people. I appreciate all do not feel this way, but those who do will know exactly what I refer to.

On Wednesday 24th July, 2013, that celebration of a football club intertwined with the beliefs of its people erupted in spectacular fashion in Sheffield. The people of Sheffield heard what we are, saw what we believed in, and the things we considered important, those worth celebrating, defending and, perhaps most importantly, in the case of Lee Rigby, were most worthy of our utmost respect.

They watched, they tweeted and they stood in awe and admiration at the Rangers support. Remarkable how an audience how are not motivated by a hatred of the things many of us cherish, can be so complimentary rather than derogatory. It makes one wonder where the problem really lies ?

Rangers are not a platform for these other views and never should be. Nor should our expression of our Protestantism, our Unionism, our Loyalism or our British identity ever be done in a manner which brings shame upon our club or for that matter that which we seek to celebrate. There is a delicate balance at work weaving it all together, and I would remind those of similar beliefs to my own, there are people out there who are determined to destroy that fine balance and eradicate it forever.

The power and passion on display at Sheffield is the reason why. They are frightened of it. Its the same power and passion which rescued a football club against the odds , which broke world records last season and filled stadium after stadium. To the consternation of many, that power and passion is on the march once again, and it does not intend to stop.

As the many Owls fans testified post match – no other set of visiting supporters has ever come close to matching that power and passion.

Let us celebrate our club's identity and culture with responsibility, and in such a way which makes us as many new friends as we did in Sheffield.

from one dinosaur to another excellent article again D'art we dinosaurs have seen it and done it

[rossDas 1,071]

It is vital that every fan becomes immune to the shaming language that is continuously applied by troublemakers, both in the media and on this forum; they will then be unable to whittle away our numbers.

[Bertent 2,081]

My lack of belief does not diminish my level of support, nor does it erode my pride in my family identity nor the things I value. The Rangers are a part of that as they have been for three generations.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Long time on this site and dont usually post but the shite you have written has made me so angry.The Rangers support certainly do not have the same point of view as you ,we must protect our heritage against every one who is trying to destroy us.Actually thought it was somebody from the east end who had been writting this shite.

So you speak on behalf of THE Rangers support - excellent - now for me the club is enough I don't need any add ons to love and support the club for some that does not seem to be enough

[Bertent 2,081]

For some that seems to be a problem

So you speak on behalf of THE Rangers support - excellent - now for me the club is enough I don't need any add ons to love and support the club for some that does not seem to be enough

Does this make you a better person?

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

I know dozens of English Rangers supporters that are supporters of the club because we are a unionist club loyal to the crown and have loyalist song books

So if we are to welcome guys like BluePeter9 with no external supplements to support the club, which is fine, can Bp9 say the same about these English Rangers fans who would put a lot of normal Glasgow based Bears to shame when it comes to going to games and levels of support they give ?

I'm not saying they are better fans or more welcome than the next fan but I think it's a valid point

I'm guessing at least 2 people miss the point tho

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I think he acknowledged that we have many supporters who don't hold all of those traditions and that there are some that may actually hold none.

However, a man would have to be blind and ignorant to ignore the obvious. In following Rangers you have to accept the complexion, colour, shape and form of what the club are and even if you are not part of that personally, you nonetheless have made a commitment to that rich heritage. The only alternative is that you somehow wish to change it.

That would truly be bizarre. It reminds me of the hypocrisy of so many who have come as immigrants to the UK for a better life, more freedoms and to embrace a cultural development that offers a greater human opportunity than the failing benighted countries that they often gladly left behind or escaped, but then wish to reshape our nation into the twisted ugly form of their previous shit hole.

If you have accepted who we are, why we are who we are, and that we are who we are and will not be changing, then why are you railing against a post that merely reaffirms our fine identity?

A Spaniard can support Barcelona with all of the cultural and nationalistic baggage that Barcelona carry, and yet be a Spaniard or even a foreigner who shares not one bit of that sentiment. However, I doubt such a supporter would come onto their forums and pour scorn or even cast doubts upon that identity or indeed its integrity, because that would entail a liberty too far.

Who says I have to embrace all the heritage - their is much of the heritage I admire - our resilience, our depth of history, our sportsmanship , leadership , dignity but I reject, absolutely that I need to define my political or religious views because of the team I support. So yes I would change others out look - in the same way you wish me to embrace PUL I would wish you to divorce your politics and religion from wh you support - oh and I try to do so without the stupid name calling and vitriolic many stoop to

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Again for the millionth time no one says you have to like the PUL side of things to be a Rangers fan

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

For some that seems to be a problem

Does this make you a better person?

No but nor does it make me a worse person or less of a supporter