scarkev 3,540 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 It's solid enough for this level, yes.Yes it is but then again these are part time teams who don't have the time or resources to do slit of tactical based training! A full time team could work on a variety of ways to exploit this tactic.....I appreciate where you are coming from in the sense it is a means to an end but IMO is just another example if the short termisim we have employed since our demotion! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willygers4life 1,031 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 It's solid enough for this level, yes.Exactly I thought ally was building to the future, but it ain't is it, it is the here and now, so basically it seems like the philosophy needs to change every year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisburnranger 36 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Statistically, the teams who use this tactic (and there are many around Europe who do) concede fewer goals from set pieces. The players line up along the six yard line because that is the danger area. Crowding that area reduces the chances of a free header for the opposition. Like a man marking system, it requires all players to concentrate and not switch off.From an attacking point of view, the idea is that the players move forward as a unit. Clearances from the penalty area tend to be picked up by the defenders even when you leave players up. Your biggest and strongest players are in the box defending the set piece, and the players you leave up are usually smaller and therefore not as effective at holding the ball up. Most goals that are scored on the counter attack from set pieces start with a clearance being picked up within 30 yards of your own goal and involve attacking at pace with numbers, not one or two players holding the ball up and waiting for support Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingWilBEARy 4,319 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Exactly I thought ally was building to the future, but it ain't is it, it is the here and now, so basically it seems like the philosophy needs to change every year.It's hard to try and build for the future when you're trying to operate under a transfer embargo from the bottom two tiers of Scottish football. We will undoubtedly need to strengthen our defence in the next 18 months however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willygers4life 1,031 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 It's hard to try and build for the future when you're trying to operate under a transfer embargo from the bottom two tiers of Scottish football. We will undoubtedly need to strengthen our defence in the next 18 months however.Fair point but then he could generally have built his defence this year and left jig up front, played faure and mohsni as first choice cb pairing, with mcausland at RB, but due to signing player ally had to play them so he didn't look stupid at signing players and not play them, not having a dig at ally but things could have been different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
legalbeagle 3,734 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 The problem with defensive tactics is that debating them is always entirely hypothetical. How many goals would we have conceded from corners if we didn't play like this? Also, when we are at a higher level, how many would we concede with one up. Would the goals we may get from a breakaway be enough to counter the extra risk in defence?It is a valid tactic, not unique to us, but certainly not the only way to play. I do get puzzled by some of the posters who want the manager to be tactical but are also keen that we should play the same as we will in 2 seasons. There is not much chance of us being penned in by teams we are playing just now, possession is relatively easily regained, so why take the risk. Whereas against a top team, the risk of having one fewer man in the area may be better than being trapped in our 18 yard box.We really do have other things to worry about that are more critical to our play than defending corners. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jela 20,662 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 A lot of people in here haven't read the op Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cushynumber 25,178 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 He is not to blame directly. However indirectly, the "everybody back at corners" tactic adds pressure to us as we have no outball, and puts players in the area who have no real bausiness being their and will be unable to do anything at corners - primarily due to height - Temps and Black spring to mind instantly.Temps should be nowhere near the box. Stick him up front and use him to counter. His pace would cause all sorts of issues in that scenario. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allgers 735 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 It's hard to try and build for the future when you're trying to operate under a transfer embargo from the bottom two tiers of Scottish football. We will undoubtedly need to strengthen our defence in the next 18 months however.We should have strengthened at the Jan transfer window, we need a CB with a bit of pace. Sorry that is not an excuse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smile 26,622 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Ally caused the tottie famine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Man city v Chelsea 2 weeks ago, Chelsea are leading 1-0 and concede a corner in the final minute, they leave 2 men up front whichresulted in 3 Man city players back to cover them. If I am correct, Chelsea needed the 3 points to go top of the Premiership.Arsenal - Liverpool - west ham - west brom - Newcastle - and more have all used 11 in defence at set pieces - others chose to keep 1 or 2 up - it ain't a hammer with which to beat Ally over the head with. It's a valid tactic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangersFanBase 611 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Arsenal - Liverpool - west ham - west brom - Newcastle - and more have all used 11 in defence at set pieces - others chose to keep 1 or 2 up - it ain't a hammer with which to beat Ally over the head with. It's a valid tactic.A valid tactic? The amount of times Ally's used that tactic and it's resulted in Rangers being hemmed in from these diddy times outweighs the times this tactic has actually worked which I believe is 0. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisburnranger 36 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 A valid tactic? The amount of times Ally's used that tactic and it's resulted in Rangers being hemmed in from these diddy times outweighs the times this tactic has actually worked which I believe is 0.Define the tactic working. I believe we have conceded 1 goal from a corner this year Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDavidCooper 2,505 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Now clearly the title here is an exaggeration of my point and there is no way you can blame the manager for a player giving away a penalty or for a referee awarding a dubious decision.That said, watching the incident again it's noticeable how many of our own players are challenging for the ball at the same time and to me it comes back to this strange tactic of having everyone back at corners where players get in each other's way and there are so many players in the box there is a good chance penalties could be conceded (if we persist with it).On another few occasions stenny had two players free at the edge of the box and more technically proficient teams will punish us! I just don't understand it! It puts the team under pressure and invites the opposition to overload in the box whilst denying us an outball! Even when we clear it, we struggle to retain possession or start counter attacks. What does tempelton or aird offer defending a corner?Again the title is an exaggeration but if we persist with this tactic I guarantee it will cost us more and more against better teams!Even by your standards, that post is a crock of shit Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 A valid tactic? The amount of times Ally's used that tactic and it's resulted in Rangers being hemmed in from these diddy times outweighs the times this tactic has actually worked which I believe is 0.... And of the goals we have lost this season have come from corners? I'll give you yesterday's penalty (despite only the ref seeing an issue) now how many more ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Even by your standards, that post is a crock of shit Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarkev 3,540 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Even by your standards, that post is a crock of shit yet another clueless idiot falling for the bait.....pathetic! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claddie 53 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 That chaos theory is wonderful stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 No not at all.....I feel this tactic will cost us and I would like those posters who refuse to critisice the manager for anything to give a reasoned analysis if why it is a useful tactic! I mean there are lots of things they could say including the little amount of goals we have conceeded this season in general or from set pieces but instead the reaction is defensive! The hope of the title is to bring those posters into a reasoned debate!I'd executed properly there is no 'free man' to be sought out frpm the corner. In fact we can mark every one and still have players spare to cover posts. In the event it is cleared it allows us to deal with any second ball which comes back in.It can also give the opposition a false sense security at corners. Despite having everyone back its not unfair to suggest that if we were to counter quickly our faster players in particular will be able to take advantage of space left by the opposition throwing extra bodies forward as the box is crowded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 ... And of the goals we have lost this season have come from corners? I'll give you yesterday's penalty (despite only the ref seeing an issue) now how many more ? including the penalty I believe it's 2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinty 1,445 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Too many at the corner are thinking about Nandos and have their hands in their pockets. Also, many are showing their wage packets to the opposition and being distracted by them talking about their day jobs. It is completely unfair that these guys are allowed to wear high vis jerseys and crash helmets, they should be forced to wear real football boots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvah 146 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 at corners and set pieces we should have black just outside the box and temps or aird and shiels or little further up so we can attempt to counter with pace, this also has the added benefit of forcing the other team to leave players back to mark them.having all those players packed inside the penalty box is just asking for a scramble were anything can happen i.e penalty awarded, deflected goal etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 at corners and set pieces we should have black just outside the box and temps or aird and shiels or little further up so we can attempt to counter with pace, this also has the added benefit of forcing the other team to leave players back to mark them.having all those players packed inside the penalty box is just asking for a scramble were anything can happen i.e penalty awarded, deflected goal etc.Yet it's happened once this season despite all the tines we've had everyone back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvah 146 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Yet it's happened once this season despite all the tines we've had everyone back.True but how many time's this season and last have we succesfully broken out from an opponents set piece and scored or even created a chance? I understand the need to defend but we should alway's be looking for the opportunity to counter. most of our opponents sit back and try to win set pieces then throw everyone forward safe in the knowledge we are no threat as long as they get straight back after the chance is gone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allgers 735 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Noticed a couple of times when we got it right our guys were running at a defense that was very much on the back foot, also noticed the opposition being allowed to break these attacks up with increasingly cynical tackles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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