Our play from the back

[eejay the dj 31,964]

This is one part of our game under MW I'm  just not getting 

How many times does our keeper knock the ball around the back ,risk us conceding but most of the time unsettling our defence .

2 things happen more often than not now .We fart about with it at the back but now after about a minute our goalie knocks it long anyway ,usually to the opposition or where he just knocks it out of play under pressure by now  .

We are not Barcelona and we certainly don't have the players they do .

This more than anything is getting on my tits as its giving teams confidence to come on to us and unsettling our already poor defenders .

[SeparateEntityMyArse 54,858]

6 minutes ago, eejay the dj said:

This is one part of our game under MW I'm  just not getting 

How many times does our keeper knock the ball around the back ,risk us conceding but most of the time unsettling our defence .

2 things happen more often than not now .We fart about with it at the back but now after about a minute our goalie knocks it long anyway ,usually to the opposition or where he just knocks it out of play .

We are not Barcelona and we certainly don't have the players they do .

This more than anything is getting on my tits as its giving teams confidence to come on to us and unsettling our already poor defenders .

It worked at the start when teams didn't sit high up against us. Every team do now and as you say the tactic is not working. We are not retaining possession. We are losing possession in dangerous areas because of it.

It's obvious to see but is only one of so many failings that we all see but Warburton doesn't or just won't change.

[Ivybank 4,708]

 spot on ,especially in this league where teams push up on you more and we end up losing it anyway,could get

away with that last season against 5th rate teams, I'd rather we lost the ball in their half than ours,playing from

the back is fine ,but there are times when you just have to clear it

[Dickie1963 2,382]

Way too slow at getting the ball forward

[harlands plater 17,077]

It's admirable the way he wants us to play, we just don't have the quality of player to play that way.

[Ryju84 3,170]

1 hour ago, eejay the dj said:

This is one part of our game under MW I'm  just not getting 

How many times does our keeper knock the ball around the back ,risk us conceding but most of the time unsettling our defence .

2 things happen more often than not now .We fart about with it at the back but now after about a minute our goalie knocks it long anyway ,usually to the opposition or where he just knocks it out of play under pressure by now  .

We are not Barcelona and we certainly don't have the players they do .

This more than anything is getting on my tits as its giving teams confidence to come on to us and unsettling our already poor defenders .

You beat me to it. I was gonna post a similar topic.

Wed played some short goal kicks to Hill and Wilson... when Aberdeen players were within 3 yards of them. Puts them under instant pressure and that is when mistakes happen. It wasnt just goal kicks.

I know most of us - if not all - do not want to see a hoof it up the park tactic. But sometimes 1 in 10 goal kicks should be up the park.

I say this because our midfield make 50 yard passes and Waghorn and McKay control it fine. Im sure they could control a Wes goal kick.

[cushynumber 25,178]

You know, it wasn't that long ago we were all eulogising this style of play and saying this is the way forward in Scottish football. 

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,540]

10 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

You know, it wasn't that long ago we were all eulogising this style of play and saying this is the way forward in Scottish football. 

It was, until teams figured it out and we've done nothing to change that.

[AldoKrfc 106]

I think last season it worked quite well (remember mckays goal v Morton away) however I noticed yesterday that it was a bit of a pointless exercise. I took a video a few months ago of barca showing how it should be done - drawing the opposition out enough so you can hit them on the break. 

 

 

[cushynumber 25,178]

8 minutes ago, TheLoudenTavernier said:

It was, until teams figured it out and we've done nothing to change that.

our defence was the priority this season. However it obviously wasn't MW's. So we have Championship players trying to play football against premiership players, when in fact we should have had more quality and be able to do this - even against teams that try a high pressing game (in fact ESPECIALLY against those teams)

 

For me the defence is the main area MW has completely neglected and it shows in the way we lose goals and the way we now struggle to play from the back. I dont want to go back to kick and rush, so we need better players to do the same thing - only better.

[AGM_72 3,765]

The issue isn't playing out from the back, it's how we transition from there into attack. I've seen countless posts since we've been on this bad run about being unable to break teams down because they sit in. Now we're seeing posts about teams pressing us high.

If we're playing out from the back and teams are pressing us high then there is space behind that press to exploit - something which should suit our style. What we need to be doing is moving the ball quicker and more incisively. I think players are probably having to adjust because this is harder to do in the SPL than it is the Championship because the opposition is sharper in movement, thought and physically.

 

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,540]

50 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

our defence was the priority this season. However it obviously wasn't MW's. So we have Championship players trying to play football against premiership players, when in fact we should have had more quality and be able to do this - even against teams that try a high pressing game (in fact ESPECIALLY against those teams)

 

For me the defence is the main area MW has completely neglected and it shows in the way we lose goals and the way we now struggle to play from the back. I dont want to go back to kick and rush, so we need better players to do the same thing - only better.

We don't have those better players at the moment though so changing our approach might be the best option. It's either that or continue to struggle until we can bring in better players but how many points will we drop before then?

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,540]

38 minutes ago, McKissock said:

The issue isn't playing out from the back, it's how we transition from there into attack. I've seen countless posts since we've been on this bad run about being unable to break teams down because they sit in. Now we're seeing posts about teams pressing us high.

If we're playing out from the back and teams are pressing us high then there is space behind that press to exploit - something which should suit our style. What we need to be doing is moving the ball quicker and more incisively. I think players are probably having to adjust because this is harder to do in the SPL than it is the Championship because the opposition is sharper in movement, thought and physically.

 

I'd agree with this. Other than Niko though we don't seem to have a player willing to attempt that defence splitting pass that will open the game up for us. It's constant short passes across the pitch instead of up the way. Even when we do attempt to move the ball forward it's predictable as fuck.

Holt was the worst for it yesterday and when I mentioned it in the match thread at half time I was told that I was criticising the only player to have pass marks in the game so far. He was keeping possession very well apparently. Well it's hard to lose possession when you're scared to move the ball more than 3 yards.

It's as if we have placed so much importance on keeping possession now that our players are reluctant to actually try something different and it's left us stuck trying to walk the ball into the net.

[centenarystand 2,229]

Sadly the whole footballing mantra is a disaster as results are showing. EJ makes a good point  about the keeper eventually knocking it long and usually back to the opposition.

This playing it around the final third without being direct and not resulting in an attempt at goal is killing us. Its absolute nonsense, its getting  boring to watch and goes on until a miss placed pass gives the opposition back possession. 

[gmcf 34,994]

3 hours ago, eejay the dj said:

This is one part of our game under MW I'm  just not getting 

How many times does our keeper knock the ball around the back ,risk us conceding but most of the time unsettling our defence .

2 things happen more often than not now .We fart about with it at the back but now after about a minute our goalie knocks it long anyway ,usually to the opposition or where he just knocks it out of play under pressure by now  .

We are not Barcelona and we certainly don't have the players they do .

This more than anything is getting on my tits as its giving teams confidence to come on to us and unsettling our already poor defenders .

To be honest I like the way we play from the back instead of just punting the ball up the park , but you're right , we sometimes do it when we shouldn't and all we do is put ourselves under pressure . Yesterday , for example , I thought we posed more a danger to ourselves than the sheep did . 

[hammer93 15,252]

I'm confused as to what way the supporters want our team to play, fuck knows how many pages are still in this forum which clearly slate the long ball turgid style that McCoist adopted.

MW came in and totally transformed the infrastructure of the football club and this new way of playing football, countless threads were on here about how people couldn't wait until the next game came round because of the football we play.

Two months into this season and we are now talking about knocking the ball long and missing out the midfield, while I appreciate results and performances have been poor I don't think we need scrap our whole new footballing philosophy, tweaks in the system yes but back to long ball is a no from me.

[gmcf 34,994]

1 minute ago, hammer93 said:

I'm confused as to what way the supporters want our team to play, fuck knows how many pages are still in this forum which clearly slate the long ball turgid style that McCoist adopted.

MW came in and totally transformed the infrastructure of the football club and this new way of playing football, countless threads were on here about how people couldn't wait until the next game came round because of the football we play.

Two months into this season and we are now talking about knocking the ball long and missing out the midfield, while I appreciate results and performances have been poor I don't think we need scrap our whole new footballing philosophy, tweaks in the system yes but back to long ball is a no from me.

Generally yes , think  it's more to do with that we seem to do it as a matter of course instead of adapting to the situation . There are times we should have punted it up the park instead of putting ourselves under pressure , which we did a few times yesterday  

[eejay the dj 31,964]

20 minutes ago, hammer93 said:

I'm confused as to what way the supporters want our team to play, fuck knows how many pages are still in this forum which clearly slate the long ball turgid style that McCoist adopted.

MW came in and totally transformed the infrastructure of the football club and this new way of playing football, countless threads were on here about how people couldn't wait until the next game came round because of the football we play.

Two months into this season and we are now talking about knocking the ball long and missing out the midfield, while I appreciate results and performances have been poor I don't think we need scrap our whole new footballing philosophy, tweaks in the system yes but back to long ball is a no from me.

Why not just mix it up Hammer ? One kick from their goalkeeper yesterday got them a lead they never deserved 

[eejay the dj 31,964]

21 minutes ago, gmcf said:

To be honest I like the way we play from the back instead of just punting the ball up the park , but you're right , we sometimes do it when we shouldn't and all we do is put ourselves under pressure . Yesterday , for example , I thought we posed more a danger to ourselves than the sheep did . 

If it's working mate .I agree but it's clearly not working now 

[hammer93 15,252]

4 minutes ago, eejay the dj said:

Why not just mix it up Hammer ? One kick from their goalkeeper yesterday got them a lead they never deserved 

That's the frustrating thing, teams shouldn't be scoring off a long ball but against our defence it's a great option, I get what your saying as in sometimes we overplay it which ends up with a hurried punt, it just seems that most things aren't working just now and frustrations are taking over.

[Bears 794]

Draw them in to man-marking our defence then it's one on one further up the pitch. It's then that Wes needs to put one over our defence to a mid/attacker who has found space.

[AGM_72 3,765]

1 hour ago, TheLoudenTavernier said:

I'd agree with this. Other than Niko though we don't seem to have a player willing to attempt that defence splitting pass that will open the game up for us. It's constant short passes across the pitch instead of up the way. Even when we do attempt to move the ball forward it's predictable as fuck.

Holt was the worst for it yesterday and when I mentioned it in the match thread at half time I was told that I was criticising the only player to have pass marks in the game so far. He was keeping possession very well apparently. Well it's hard to lose possession when you're scared to move the ball more than 3 yards.

It's as if we have placed so much importance on keeping possession now that our players are reluctant to actually try something different and it's left us stuck trying to walk the ball into the net.

I'm not sure if I'd use the word scared, but it might well be the case that the players just need to show a little more bravery and belief in their ability - the stakes are higher this year, the expectations are clearly (unreasonably) higher too. Either that or they just don't quite have the ability to play this style of football at this level.

If we look at, for example, Hearts last season. They played a style of football which plays much more to the percentages than we do and they found themselves competing and finishing third. That's fine but it's not how we played last season and it's not how our manager wants his teams to play. Our style of football is harder to execute as you jump up levels and anyone who claims there's no difference between the Championship to the SPFL is kidding themselves on. Therefore, it takes our team longer to adapt to that jump.

People might not like that but they ought to get used to it. MW was getting all sorts of praise for how he changed our style of play and how our youth teams are set out to play from top to bottom. Now, after 2 difficult months in the top flight people are wanting to throw it away so we can hire the likes of Billy Davies. It's absolute madness. I've seen better Rangers teams than this play worse than we did at Pittodrie yesterday.

After spending 4 years journeying back to the top of the our football system people need to have a bit of faith and patience in how we're approaching things and not shite themselves at the first sign of trouble, because we will improve and the groundwork being laid just now is going to benefit us massively in the future. We should be abandoning arrogant short term mindsets where we are somehow entitled to win the league this season and if we don't it's the end of the world.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

1 hour ago, Bears said:

Draw them in to man-marking our defence then it's one on one further up the pitch. It's then that Wes needs to put one over our defence to a mid/attacker who has found space.

I think this is when Wes gets found out as he isn't that accurate 

[TMB 14,167]

I think this system could work if we had some better players.  A dominant CB, CDM, and 2 wingers are needed.

[Young Bob 1,360]

4 hours ago, harlands plater said:

It's admirable the way he wants us to play, we just don't have the quality of player to play that way.

Sums it up really. He has also brought players in who can play this system but also has brought ones in who cannot.