Has Murty already failed?

[TMB 14,167]

22 minutes ago, saintbob1969 said:

We cannot ever write off the points we have dropped which would easily have put us very close to celtic however Murty has out performed both Pedro and Warburton with injuries and players who have often failed to turn up.

Outperformed in what way?  We've lost more games under Murty this season than we did Pedro.  I appreciate we picked up a difficult point away from home today but that in no way makes those 4 embarrassing defeats acceptable.  We've been highly inconsistent and it's been very costly with 12 points dropped in the last couple of months.

[crombie1873 142]

Just now, The Dude said:

I can tell you what you’ve missed already. Walter took two games before Souness arrived in 86.(data is from fitbastats.com)

Ah, cheers that's what I've missed, I only have the 4 games from the end of 90-91 season... Will be interesting to see how Murty does with the transfer window and getting his own Assistant in.

[The Dude 20,026]

4 minutes ago, theclothmonster said:

No not really at all, my main point is that Murty is far too inexperienced for the job.

Walter had helped the Scotland under 18 team to win the European Youth championship in 1982, assistant manager at a successful Dundee Scum team, assistant manager with us and had already gained a reputation from working with people like Alex Ferguson by the time he was thrown into the job. Contrast this to Murty who showed he was too inexperienced in his first spell as caretaker manager, is a good youth coach by all accounts but that is as far as he has gone in his career so far. 

Walter had managed games for us before he was our assistant. Didn’t win either game. 

Murty worked under Mauricio Pochettino before heading along to Norwich and had built a fantastic reputation and (according to Craig Mulholland but I’ve never been able to verify) was voted one of the most promising young coaches in English football by his peers. 

Not to mention a playing career which included stints in the Premier League and working under Walter. 

You’re always going to only go so far until you get an opportunity. Murty has been given his and is performing on a par with how Walter did in his opening spell as an inexperienced Rangers manager.

[theclothmonster 1,716]

Just now, The Dude said:

Walter had managed games for us before he was our assistant. Didn’t win either game. 

Murty worked under Mauricio Pochettino before heading along to Norwich and had built a fantastic reputation and (according to Craig Mulholland but I’ve never been able to verify) was voted one of the most promising young coaches in English football by his peers. 

Not to mention a playing career which included stints in the Premier League and working under Walter. 

You’re always going to only go so far until you get an opportunity. Murty has been given his and is performing on a par with how Walter did in his opening spell as an inexperienced Rangers manager.

Walter had gained a reputation as an assistant manager under Souness, McClean and Alex Ferguson and had Alex Ferguson saying "There are few people in the game with his experience, knowledge and technical ability." about Walter after his time as his assistant. There's a vast difference between having a reputation as a promising coach, and having a reputation and time served as an assistant to three successful managers. Walter had two games in his first stint, Murty had six and he looked completely out of his depth. If Murty is as highly rated as you say then its even less reason to gamble his future at the club by having him run before he can walk.

There's a very real threat that Murty's position at this club becomes untenable should results go a certain way. It's not even something i'm saying just to come up with a reply to you. I've said before he was manager that the board shouldn't be risking his career. I like Murty, he comes across as a nice person and really genuine but there's already people on here who have stated that their opinion of him has changed. I don't blame Murty for his part in this, I blame the board but it doesn't make him any less experienced at a time when we needed a manager who could bridge the gap to them through organisation and tactical ability.

[The Dude 20,026]

3 minutes ago, theclothmonster said:

Walter had gained a reputation as an assistant manager under Souness, McClean and Alex Ferguson and had Alex Ferguson saying "There are few people in the game with his experience, knowledge and technical ability." about Walter after his time as his assistant. There's a vast difference between having a reputation as a promising coach, and having a reputation and time served as an assistant to three successful managers. Walter had two games in his first stint, Murty had six and he looked completely out of his depth. If Murty is as highly rated as you say then its even less reason to gamble his future at the club by having him run before he can walk.

There's a very real threat that Murty's position at this club becomes untenable should results go a certain way. It's not even something i'm saying just to come up with a reply to you. I've said before he was manager that the board shouldn't be risking his career. I like Murty, he comes across as a nice person and really genuine but there's already people on here who have stated that their opinion of him has changed. I don't blame Murty for his part in this, I blame the board but it doesn't make him any less experienced at a time when we needed a manager who could bridge the gap to them through organisation and tactical ability.

But Walter was still as inexperienced a manager as Murty was when he took the role. One thing I've noticed is that everyone who has worked their way up into the top job says nothing prepares them for being a manager. The most recent one I remember is Lee McCulloch in his interview with Si Ferry. Both took over as Rangers manager with no experience elsewhere of managing a club. Plenty top coaches and assistants fail to make even average managers (bizarrely, including many of Ferguson's assistants). Without the opportunity, you'll never know. If Murty is as highly-rated as I've been told there's the chance he might not be here when people think he's experienced enough.

That threat hangs over any Rangers manager. If you don't get results then you wont last long regardless of if you've been managing for 25 years or two weeks.

There's no doubting he's inexperienced but they've moved to help him out by bringing someone in who IS experienced in Jimmy Nic. Someone that knows and loves the club has undoubted experience as a manager, coach and player at club and international level who can point Murty in the right direction and be there to walk him through things that'll be new for him.

[Malkytfp1 18,618]

I don't like being too negative tonight especially after such a brave performance today....for 45 minutes.

Murty's tactics today were actually not surprising. The same way he set up against Aberdeen and Hibs mixed with the pressing Hearts showed which crippled celtic. So credit that but lets not go OTT.

Krancjar needed subbed out of that game after 10 minutes. Anyone with a slight football heid could see that but Murty kept him in there cheating his own team mates. Imagine how better we would have been with 11 players on the park today rather than 10?!

It may be quite nit-picky as well but his interview after the game had me cringing. He was talking about how amazing celtic park is.and how good celtic are amd how he loved going there etc.

 

[LeeWallaceRFC 3,920]

This thread is a travesty, fucking hell.

He's the only manager we've had since Walter left.

He's managing a squad full of shite brought in by the previous management. Wouldn't be surprised to see him recall O'Halloran in January and get performances out of him.

There's not one single option out there better than him, that would want anywhere near the club. Accept it or continue in denial. We're a shambles from top to bottom. The whole club needs a clear out from the boardroom to the dressing room.

Let's continue to nitpick and sit in bitterness about a few measly comments, as opposed to appreciating and enjoying the result for what it is. Nobody, nobody, expected us to get a result today, let alone put in a performance deserving of all three points.

You can't help but wonder what planet some people exist on. We've got a hell of a lot more to worry about than post-match comments made by our manager.

We're in a crucial time for the club. We need the board out, some investment and a bit of wise movement in the transfer market. The money we've wasted this year is nothing short of fucking criminal. At the moment, we're nowhere near a team capable of winning the league, regardless of how pish the team at the top of the league are. To say that without a change we're further than ten years away from challenging is frightening. However, it's true.

The usual replies are expected, although you do hope for some realism.

[Beaujolais 1,371]

We are where we are now with Murty as Manager, and Murty is now where he is as our Manager, I don’t agree with the Murty decision - but it is now a done deal until the Summer. 

If Jimmy Nicholl does become his assistant, then in the circumstances, that is a sensible move.

Murty achieved an invaluable point yesterday against the odds and contrary to the many predictions that we were in for a hiding. In fact our Team actually made the opposition look very ordinary and hopefully the world will wake up to the fact that Rodgers is not some Super Manager, but merely the manager of a celtic team that has had no opposition at a time that Scottish Football is at its lowest level that I have seen in all my years. That is IMO massively to Murty’s credit.

But please keep him away from a media microphone. 

If Murty and Nicholl can achieve some sort of consistency and build on the Team spirit that is looking to have developed since he took over- then the rest of this season could be very interesting.

[MasterD 7,436]

37 minutes ago, LeeWallaceRFC said:

This thread is a travesty, fucking hell.

He's the only manager we've had since Walter left.

He's managing a squad full of shite brought in by the previous management. Wouldn't be surprised to see him recall O'Halloran in January and get performances out of him.

There's not one single option out there better than him, that would want anywhere near the club. Accept it or continue in denial. We're a shambles from top to bottom. The whole club needs a clear out from the boardroom to the dressing room.

Let's continue to nitpick and sit in bitterness about a few measly comments, as opposed to appreciating and enjoying the result for what it is. Nobody, nobody, expected us to get a result today, let alone put in a performance deserving of all three points.

You can't help but wonder what planet some people exist on. We've got a hell of a lot more to worry about than post-match comments made by our manager.

We're in a crucial time for the club. We need the board out, some investment and a bit of wise movement in the transfer market. The money we've wasted this year is nothing short of fucking criminal. At the moment, we're nowhere near a team capable of winning the league, regardless of how pish the team at the top of the league are. To say that without a change we're further than ten years away from challenging is frightening. However, it's true.

The usual replies are expected, although you do hope for some realism.

How’s yer window taste?

[JCDBigBear 10,830]

4 hours ago, Pure_Quality said:

Because the lasting effect of roday wasn't a negative one i.e. we gained a point. It's really not difficult.

This is what I posted verbatim:  The realist in me suggests that today's result will have little lasting effect.  

The point of that comment has clearly been missed by you.  The legacy to which I referred was not the single point we obtained by a draw.  If you are being serious and can't understand my point then I will leave it at this post as further explanation will be superfluous.

[Heshootshescores 1,905]

Theres no doubt hes struggling against teams that park the bus, but you need genuine quality in those situations and sadly we dont currently have that. 

Its not going to arrive in the shape of MOH or AH either, so I hope there's  some talent coming in on loan. 

[Bad Robot 21,321]

We could have won that yesterday if Murty subbed Niko and brought on Barjonas at ht. 

[Beaujolais 1,371]

9 hours ago, sandyinroyalblue said:

I think there's one or two on here who genuinely want to see Murty and Rangers fail,I'm not happy with the current board and the decisions it's made but Murty is our manager for now, accept it and give him credit when its due and it's definitely due today.

Well said Sandyinroyalblue - Credit where credit is due. Murty has done no worse than our recent Managers and at the end of day he is the one piecing together the bits of squads left over by 3 previous Managers who all cost the Club a fortune and failed to deliver a suitable return on the cash splashed out on their transfer market dealings. Whilst I a, not happy with the decision to appoint Murty, another poster on here has made me think again. Who could we get instead with Club in its current state I.e a toxic Board- and the answer is obvious- No one, because no creditable Manager wants to pick up the poison chalice. Dave Kings spokesmen tried to destroy Warburton reputation when he left, and did exactly the same when McInnes declined the job offer- who would want to work for this guy. So Murty is who we are left with, and actually he is doing a better job in my view than McCoist, Warburton and Pedro C- with their players. The real test of Murty is when he brings  some new players and puts his “Own” Team out on the park. But let’s give him our support and with Nicholl behind him to provide support we may find we are not as badly off as we could be if Murty had actually refused the job himself.

[6superbarry6 14,162]

We back giving him the job now because we got a fucking point? mediocrity awaits if that's the case do we just ignore the fact that he (a) started Kranjcar when we're playing a pressing game or (b) took 80mins to take the fucking passenger off?

[Beaujolais 1,371]

10 minutes ago, 6superbarry6 said:

We back giving him the job now because we got a fucking point? mediocrity awaits if that's the case do we just ignore the fact that he (a) started Kranjcar when we're playing a pressing game or (b) took 80mins to take the fucking passenger off?

We back him because he’s in the position and at the end of the day no one else is there to take the job. It’s not Murty who is the appropriate target- it’s a Board that are proving time and time again that they are not fit for purpose.

[6superbarry6 14,162]

6 minutes ago, Beaujolais said:

We back him because he’s in the position and at the end of the day no one else is there to take the job. It’s not Murty who is the appropriate target- it’s a Board that are proving time and time again that they are not fit for purpose.

Agreed it's the board but cmon Murty isn't the man he's decent enough against the better sides who'll actually come out and play but against the rest he's clueless and has no idea how to break a team down more often than not that's what's needed,it's probably only the filth,the sheep and  the diet tarriers that will come out and play.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

7 hours ago, LeeWallaceRFC said:

This thread is a travesty, fucking hell.

He's the only manager we've had since Walter left.

He's managing a squad full of shite brought in by the previous management. Wouldn't be surprised to see him recall O'Halloran in January and get performances out of him.

There's not one single option out there better than him, that would want anywhere near the club. Accept it or continue in denial. We're a shambles from top to bottom. The whole club needs a clear out from the boardroom to the dressing room.

Let's continue to nitpick and sit in bitterness about a few measly comments, as opposed to appreciating and enjoying the result for what it is. Nobody, nobody, expected us to get a result today, let alone put in a performance deserving of all three points.

You can't help but wonder what planet some people exist on. We've got a hell of a lot more to worry about than post-match comments made by our manager.

We're in a crucial time for the club. We need the board out, some investment and a bit of wise movement in the transfer market. The money we've wasted this year is nothing short of fucking criminal. At the moment, we're nowhere near a team capable of winning the league, regardless of how pish the team at the top of the league are. To say that without a change we're further than ten years away from challenging is frightening. However, it's true.

The usual replies are expected, although you do hope for some realism.

Realism? Now there’s something we don’t do well!  

no mattter who the manager is to get a squad that will continually fight for and win the spl will take 2 - 3 seasons. We seem to think ANY manager can just come in - a tweet here and there and we will never lose a game. Not realistic. 

Look at the Critisism if Murty - not even had a transfer window and folk moaning cause we are still inconsistent. And in that period GM is missing Wallace, Dorrans, Miller, Jack - he has called up Ross McCrorie and got great performances out of Bates and Wilson is now looking good. Imagine what he will do with some time and a couple of transfer windows. 

Folk moan about the board appointing him and seem to think they are backing him while critiquing the board - that’s not backing him. Many  Folk on here are not realistic - they carry a sense of entitlement not realism - we will get back but not if we keep chopping and changing  and hounding managers. 

[Beaujolais 1,371]

10 minutes ago, 6superbarry6 said:

Agreed it's the board but cmon Murty isn't the man he's decent enough against the better sides who'll actually come out and play but against the rest he's clueless and has no idea how to break a team down more often than not that's what's needed,it's probably only the filth,the sheep and  the diet tarriers that will come out and play.

Agreed - but unfortunately with this Board in place, and given the fact he has been given the Job until the Summer- I cannot see what we can do other than give him our support. I hope you and yours have a good Hogmanay- and let’s hope it’s more than draws we are celebrating in 2018.

[6superbarry6 14,162]

30 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Realism? Now there’s something we don’t do well!  

no mattter who the manager is to get a squad that will continually fight for and win the spl will take 2 - 3 seasons. We seem to think ANY manager can just come in - a tweet here and there and we will never lose a game. Not realistic. 

Look at the Critisism if Murty - not even had a transfer window and folk moaning cause we are still inconsistent. And in that period GM is missing Wallace, Dorrans, Miller, Jack - he has called up Ross McCrorie and got great performances out of Bates and Wilson is now looking good. Imagine what he will do with some time and a couple of transfer windows. 

Folk moan about the board appointing him and seem to think they are backing him while critiquing the board - that’s not backing him. Many  Folk on here are not realistic - they carry a sense of entitlement not realism - we will get back but not if we keep chopping and changing  and hounding managers. 

Lose our sense of entitlement we become just another club,we always have to strive to be the best

[6superbarry6 14,162]

14 minutes ago, Beaujolais said:

Agreed - but unfortunately with this Board in place, and given the fact he has been given the Job until the Summer- I cannot see what we can do other than give him our support. I hope you and yours have a good Hogmanay- and let’s hope it’s more than draws we are celebrating in 2018.

Mate he has my support and he's in an impossible situation but back to back defeats against St Johnstone and Killie done it for me,aw the best mate and yes we need to cement 2nd place and Euro football so hopefully we keep playing with intensity and go on a run.

[Briton 394]

I'm sure that if Murty had been given the opportunity that Walter Smith had; that is taking over a dominant team in what was basically a one horse race, he'd have done well. Any reasonably competent manager should. 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,815]

"He's inexperienced" - how long do we give him before this stops being used to excuse poor results?

"It's not his players" - when will he be responsible for the performances and results of these players, and rightly be both criticised and praised not just one or the other?

"He's not even had a transfer window" - does this excuse end in January or will it be replaced with players signed not being his signings?

What are the expectations from him for the second half of the season, what is he being held to account for? Or does he just play the manager equivalent of Niko yesterday and simply fill the position but do fuck all....

 

He IS manager of our club and we have a huge second half of the season ahead. One that really isn't completely beyond being a credible if not successful one if the players and manager perform. If he and they did, potentially the job could become his on a longer term basis. But not if excuses are made and defeats somehow tolerated by the circumstances of how we got here.

We are where we are, we know where we want to be and in a few weeks our squad and management team will be in place to go and either succeed or fail in getting us there.

Hopefully come our return from the break we can move forward and both demand and witness success from GM and HIS players, in the same way we rightly should with any Rangers manager and his squad.

[Da Kool Blue 139]

Time will tell.

To me he's a young manager with great prospects, but he probably needs 2-3 seasons at a club where he can develop without the pressures you have at Ibrox. In saying that, sometimes in football a manager with a bumpy start can go on to be a great regardless of their surroundings. 

We will probably have a better impression of him after the transfer window closes and the season resumes. Then he will have no excuses and success/failures will all be down to him and his team. 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

5 hours ago, 6superbarry6 said:

Lose our sense of entitlement we become just another club,we always have to strive to be the best

Nope - no one gets anything with ‘I’m entitled’ to that - we have high standards and expectations - agreed! But we must work hard and EARN our place at the top - we won’t get to the top ‘just because’ we are Rangers but we will get there through hard work, skill and determination, and those ethics are what made and will make us great not some sense that we should get it but because we worked for it. 

[TMB 14,167]

5 hours ago, 6superbarry6 said:

We back giving him the job now because we got a fucking point? mediocrity awaits if that's the case do we just ignore the fact that he (a) started Kranjcar when we're playing a pressing game or (b) took 80mins to take the fucking passenger off?

It's a shame Pena wasn't brought on sooner with the amount of crosses being fired in to the box the guy might've got the end of one.  That's something he brings that Kranjcar doesn't  Kranjcar should've been hooked at halftime.