Howsitgoing 4,281 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 PSV and the other clubs have been in consultation with the Eredivisie for some time to come to a joint, uniform approach for all supporters of all Eredivisie clubs. The Dutch league will be cancelled and clubs have been in consultations with the govern bodies for some time, not been put in a obscure vote with bribes for payouts to allow for the only outcome that matters to them. I hope Rangers board have not just gone back to their previous cowardly selfs, the papers have all forgot the notorious vote and the narrative is “when will celtic get their well deserved title” This is why the fenians get off with what they do, they know they’ll be outrage at the start but it’ll just dwindle to nothing because Rangers will just allow it too. They better not this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,766 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Redwhiteandblue said: I was always under the impression that the majority of the smaller teams in our structure were owned by local folk who have a few Bob and run the clubs out their own pockets? Obviously they need cash to pay the players, that's where the problems will start but I can't see too many players in the lower league's getting much more than £2800/month? I seem to remember East Fife only paying their players £10/week. And as long as most of the clubs weren't daft, the cash they made from us coming back up through the leagues should still be helping most of the smaller teams out. Especially if they have decent sized stadiums like Morton and a few others. If players and staff getting furloughed then that'll stop as soon as organised training starts, or even proper communication with employees, and certainly when games start. If owners need to subsidise this month after month and can do so that contrasts with clubs saying at the time of the recent vote they needed the money. I guess part of the problem is how long it can go on with outgoings but no incoming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Avenger 22,567 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 42 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: Agreed. Tbf I should have probably posted my previous post elsewhere so as not to derail this thread but in honesty I cant see any likely survival route for clubs in the bottom leagues unless the top league distributes more of their cash to them. And that isnt going to happen. I see the bigger clubs in deeper financial shit that the smallers ones if no income, because it all falls back to the owners/board. Park going to pay those wages from his hip? We must be out about 2 mil a month, so where is the money coming from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GersInCanada 7,775 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I doubt that many if any employees with clubs at the bottom end of the scale earn more than £2,500 per month so for the time being they are covered. When that expires they will have the option of letting many go. These clubs have low running costs and when football resumes then even without spectators I expect them to survive. Stirling Albion asked the local community to chip in with a target of £10k and got £30k I believe that casualties are more likely to come from the bigger clubs with relatively large outgoings and very little income. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacky Bear 874 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Just seen League Cup Final from 78/79, what has jogged my memory when DJ lifted the cup, the cups were always lifted from a Union Flag. Why and when did that change, I also remember rule that every team when playing at home had to fly the Union Flag, remember one being barely visible on Piggery RHS main stand, next our end. Goes without saying no doubts some sort of SELIK and Glasgow City Council becoming the Scottish Government behind it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Traive 22,844 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 40 minutes ago, Howsitgoing said: PSV and the other clubs have been in consultation with the Eredivisie for some time to come to a joint, uniform approach for all supporters of all Eredivisie clubs. The Dutch league will be cancelled and clubs have been in consultations with the govern bodies for some time, not been put in a obscure vote with bribes for payouts to allow for the only outcome that matters to them. I hope Rangers board have not just gone back to their previous cowardly selfs, the papers have all forgot the notorious vote and the narrative is “when will celtic get their well deserved title” This is why the fenians get off with what they do, they know they’ll be outrage at the start but it’ll just dwindle to nothing because Rangers will just allow it too. They better not this time. Really hope that the media will stick with this and not let it fade away. The scum are absolute masters at sitting in their bunker, letting the storm blow over and waiting until the story withers and dies. Two year investigation? - when did you last hear anyone ask for an update? We all know it’s a complete fabrication yet our media let it go. If you want an illustration of how deep the scum influence is at Hampden, just look at the SPFL tactics under pressure. It is a replica of the Liewell playbook. Even anti-Rangers men are challenging the fiasco yet the cabal just carry on as if it’s business as usual. There should have been pressure for a fresh (ie legal) vote but that ship has sailed, the lower league teams have accepted it and moved on, exactly as Doncaster & co wanted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 1 hour ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: More I think about the "meteor" quote and restructuring, the more I see it as moving deckchairs on the titanic. STs wont sell unless fans can see games, most games will likely be bcd for some time so outwith the premier league most wouldnt be televised. Clubs will go to the wall as soon as furloughing stops as they play games, if theyve not already gone bust. The spfl will be a fraction of what it is now. In comparison to most realising Independence is dead and we'd be a bankrupt nation right now without the big nation's help I actually think the best way for the authorities to save their members would be to get us subsumed job lot with the EFL. I get that would be them being turkeys voting for xmas, but it would likely be the best solution as a scottish regional division or whatever. The money which filters down the levels come summer is likelier to be more than clubs will be scheduled to receive right now, zilch. Huge number of benefits, some negatives, entirely unrealistic I know but I'm bored so fuck it there you go 😂 I believe Asian football will be the first to get back on track because they had the virus first and they will pursue their dream of a world super league whilst European football struggles. I think European clubs will suffer the most because of the way the different governments have handle the crisis. I can see many clubs going to the wall and leagues having to be streamlined. When the government start to lift quarantine measures they'll stagger the numbers of people allowed in one place at one time, which will give the lower league club a fighting chance, if it's lifted after the present quarantine period has ended. It will be the bigger clubs that will suffer because of their higher out goings and extended quarantine measures. For me the best solution for Rangers is to finish all games this season behind closed doors and if needs must playing season 20/21 competitions behind closed doors with TV passes, which allow our TV deals and sponsorship to continue and a fee on reserving ST. Bring back a reality show like Blue Heaven that will generate money for the club. organise benefit dinners once the quarantine measures begin to be relaxed. Look into selling the rights of making a movie of Rangers climb back to the top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howsitgoing 4,281 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Colin Traive said: Really hope that the media will stick with this and not let it fade away. The scum are absolute masters at sitting in their bunker, let the storm blow over and wait until the story withers and dies. Two year investigation? - when did you last hear anyone ask for an update? We all know it’s a complete fabrication yet our media let it go. If you want an illustration of how deep the scum influence is at Hampden, just look at the SPFL tactics under pressure. It is a replica of the Liewell playbook. Even anti-Rangers men are challenging the fiasco yet the cabal just carry on as if it’s business as usual. There should have been pressure for a fresh (ie legal) vote but that ship has sailed, the lower league teams have accepted it and moved on, exactly as Doncaster & co wanted. All you’ll find in the media just now is UEFA holding up paedos title celebration. ,the only narrative change they want is one that’s conclusive with this reconstruction group falling apart allowing them to be the fall guy for it inevitably failing. They’ve got previous for just saying nothing after a damning statement, this better not be another one of them or games finished unless we are happy to just be 2nd best to that bastardised team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,766 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 48 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said: I see the bigger clubs in deeper financial shit that the smallers ones if no income, because it all falls back to the owners/board. Park going to pay those wages from his hip? We must be out about 2 mil a month, so where is the money coming from? I agree to an extent but think our league's clubs could sell virtual STs where you get to watch bcd for the price of your ticket. A bit like they do in boxing ppv events, I'd imagine they could to an extent control sharing of the event and cut off those illegal feeds. Our top league teams could im sure through our own channels or with broadcaster assistance ensure all games are broadcast. So at least in some shape or form ST money plus broadcaster money could come in, which does still leave holes to be plugged, but surely less than those below our PL. If championship clubs have no matchday income and need to pay players for bcd games I cant see them surviving, or doing so with junior level players on minimum salaries. Dont think any club isnt vulnerable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 54 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: If players and staff getting furloughed then that'll stop as soon as organised training starts, or even proper communication with employees, and certainly when games start. If owners need to subsidise this month after month and can do so that contrasts with clubs saying at the time of the recent vote they needed the money. I guess part of the problem is how long it can go on with outgoings but no incoming. Yeah. That's the problem. I don't mind paying for next season's season ticket no matter what goes on, but I imagine most folk won't be able to do that and obviously our wage bill is in the millions of pounds. Theres only so long us and even them can do that. It's the same with every club in Britain, even the English teams will struggle to pay their wages with no income. Can see by the time this is over that a lot of players in a lot of the top leagues will need to renegotiate contracts that are somewhere back into reality. We have all been saying for years that the football bubble was going to burst, I don't think anyone thought it would happen like this though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GersInCanada 7,775 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: I agree to an extent but think our league's clubs could sell virtual STs where you get to watch bcd for the price of your ticket. A bit like they do in boxing ppv events, I'd imagine they could to an extent control sharing of the event and cut off those illegal feeds. Our top league teams could im sure through our own channels or with broadcaster assistance ensure all games are broadcast. So at least in some shape or form ST money plus broadcaster money could come in, which does still leave holes to be plugged, but surely less than those below our PL. Dont think any club isnt vulnerable. The annual subscription package from RTV is a virtual season ticket allowing all league games (home and away) and most cup games. I don't see a problem with this being extended to cover the UK while closed doors is the norm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,766 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Redwhiteandblue said: Yeah. That's the problem. I don't mind paying for next season's season ticket no matter what goes on, but I imagine most folk won't be able to do that and obviously our wage bill is in the millions of pounds. Theres only so long us and even them can do that. It's the same with every club in Britain, even the English teams will struggle to pay their wages with no income. Can see by the time this is over that a lot of players in a lot of the top leagues will need to renegotiate contracts that are somewhere back into reality. We have all been saying for years that the football bubble was going to burst, I don't think anyone thought it would happen like this though... I'm not even sure theres the scope to sell STs if there's no product being received whether virtually or physically at the game. For clubs who cant get bcd games televised I'd imagine they're deep in the shit once furlough money ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovanFrontSince96 315 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 52 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: If players and staff getting furloughed then that'll stop as soon as organised training starts, or even proper communication with employees, and certainly when games start. If owners need to subsidise this month after month and can do so that contrasts with clubs saying at the time of the recent vote they needed the money. I guess part of the problem is how long it can go on with outgoings but no incoming. Would imagine we are ok until the date when season ticket money for next season was due to come in, most of our revenue for this season is already in. Then it will really just come down to will the fans fund players on huge salaries with no games to go to or will the big earners take a wage cut, don’t see many other options. The big issue in Scotland is that our tv money compared to other countries of similar size is poor and most clubs greatest revenue is through the gate which isn’t the case in many other countries, so our league and teams will probably be hit hardest with BCD games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 51 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said: I see the bigger clubs in deeper financial shit that the smallers ones if no income, because it all falls back to the owners/board. Park going to pay those wages from his hip? We must be out about 2 mil a month, so where is the money coming from? We sold almost a full stadium of ST's, but even then the board were saying that we needed more investment and it looked like we were getting it until all this happened so I really don't know where we go from here... One things for sure, football cant die. We will always have a demand for it and people who want to play so that isn't a problem. The debt might be though. I just hope of it comes to it we aren't the first club to go in to admin or it's back to the bottom we go. If it's a Hivs or Sheep team that does then that would be a lot more helpful for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,766 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Just now, GersInCanada said: The annual subscription package from RTV is a virtual season ticket allowing all league games (home and away) and most cup games. I don't see a problem with this being extended to cover the UK while closed doors is the norm. I'd imagine the cost of recording all games would be fairly prohibitive as we move down the leagues. This package is also great at a few hundred quid (?) but that's less than the average ST price so we would likely be taking a ST income hit even if 100% took it up which they wont. For other clubs with lesser supports but the broadcasting costs likely the same I'm not sure there is any profit. Dunno. I think this is definitely the route being considered, I just see the demand and cost effectiveness of it diminishing as we move down our league let alone the lower leagues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hedgehog 10,673 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 “It’s very likely we won’t have sports with fans back until we have a Covid-19 vaccine mass-administered, which is most likely going to be at least late 2021. The key thing to understand is that every person you add to a gathering increases the risk of Covid-19 in two ways: it’s another person who could be bringing the infection in; or, even if they’re uninfected, they’re another person who could catch the disease from someone else and spread it to others. The safest you can be is one person alone in a house or apartment because no one can bring the disease to you in that situation, and you can’t get anyone else sick. Two people is more dangerous than one, ten is more dangerous than two, 500 is more dangerous than ten. By the time you get up to 50,000, 70,000, 100,000 fans the danger level really ratchets up. These are the types of situations where you run the risk of having a super-spreading event where a whole lot of people get sick at once and overwhelm the local public health and, eventually, medical systems. To be clear, this doesn’t just apply to sports. It’s unlikely we’ll be able to gather safely in the tens of thousands for anything – festivals, conventions, sporting events – until we have a vaccine.” The above quote is by Zachary Binney, a professor at the Oxford College of Emory University. It’s obviously a worst case scenario by the looks of things but the football authorities are going to have to man up and abandon all the current seasons, no champions, no relegation and no promotion These seasons are gone and it should all be about waiting until it can come back. I would love to see if anyone can explain why Scottish football is adamant you can’t simply end it as it stands with no teams being punished or rewarded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: I'm not even sure theres the scope to sell STs of there's no product being received whether virtually or physically at the game. For clubs who cant get bcd games televised I'd imagine they're deep in the shit once furlough money ends. Yeah, the only saving grace is almost every club will be in the same boat so its going to have to come down to the players to get new realistic contracts if they want to continue to play. I doubt theres many of them who have say a degree in engineering so will be stuck as footballers. Maybe just not the Ferrari version of players that we're used to though. Not in the short term anyway... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,766 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Redwhiteandblue said: We sold almost a full stadium of ST's, but even then the board were saying that we needed more investment and it looked like we were getting it until all this happened so I really don't know where we go from here... One things for sure, football cant die. We will always have a demand for it and people who want to play so that isn't a problem. The debt might be though. I just hope of it comes to it we aren't the first club to go in to admin or it's back to the bottom we go. If it's a Hivs or Sheep team that does then that would be a lot more helpful for us. I'd say it most certainly can. Certainly football as we know it, and that's what I'm getting from the ongoing comments from clubs. Given theres no end in sight, they really are expecting the landscape to change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, GersInCanada said: The annual subscription package from RTV is a virtual season ticket allowing all league games (home and away) and most cup games. I don't see a problem with this being extended to cover the UK while closed doors is the norm. That's if closed doors is even allowed with the social distancing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GersInCanada 7,775 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Redwhiteandblue said: That's if closed doors is even allowed with the social distancing. Of course. But as restrictions are eased that is the most likely way back for football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Dave Hedgehog said: “It’s very likely we won’t have sports with fans back until we have a Covid-19 vaccine mass-administered, which is most likely going to be at least late 2021. The key thing to understand is that every person you add to a gathering increases the risk of Covid-19 in two ways: it’s another person who could be bringing the infection in; or, even if they’re uninfected, they’re another person who could catch the disease from someone else and spread it to others. The safest you can be is one person alone in a house or apartment because no one can bring the disease to you in that situation, and you can’t get anyone else sick. Two people is more dangerous than one, ten is more dangerous than two, 500 is more dangerous than ten. By the time you get up to 50,000, 70,000, 100,000 fans the danger level really ratchets up. These are the types of situations where you run the risk of having a super-spreading event where a whole lot of people get sick at once and overwhelm the local public health and, eventually, medical systems. To be clear, this doesn’t just apply to sports. It’s unlikely we’ll be able to gather safely in the tens of thousands for anything – festivals, conventions, sporting events – until we have a vaccine.” The above quote is by Zachary Binney, a professor at the Oxford College of Emory University. It’s obviously a worst case scenario by the looks of things but the football authorities are going to have to man up and abandon all the current seasons, no champions, no relegation and no promotion These seasons are gone and it should all be about waiting until it can come back. I would love to see if anyone can explain why Scottish football is adamant you can’t simply end it as it stands with no teams being punished or rewarded. Human trials of a vaccine are starting today or tomorrow in the UK. They're hoping to have it ready by the end of the year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hedgehog 10,673 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Redwhiteandblue said: Human trials of a vaccine are starting today or tomorrow in the UK. They're hoping to have it ready by the end of the year. Even if it’s that soon football should be getting told by the government(s) that they have to stop fucking about. 👍 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetheart 8,458 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: I'd imagine the cost of recording all games would be fairly prohibitive as we move down the leagues. This package is also great at a few hundred quid (?) but that's less than the average ST price so we would likely be taking a ST income hit even if 100% took it up which they wont. For other clubs with lesser supports but the broadcasting costs likely the same I'm not sure there is any profit. Dunno. I think this is definitely the route being considered, I just see the demand and cost effectiveness of it diminishing as we move down our league let alone the lower leagues. Could the lower league clubs televise their games using the SFA T.V facilities, who could then sell the rights to a broadcasting company, as as as pay per view set up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovanFrontSince96 315 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: I'd say it most certainly can. Certainly football as we know it, and that's what I'm getting from the ongoing comments from clubs. Given theres no end in sight, they really are expecting the landscape to change. Football clubs will survive it all comes down to controlling their biggest expenditure, player wages. As has already been said footballers will ultimately need to take a hit on their wages if they want to stay in a job. Clubs down south are already discussing a mutual pact that clubs can’t poach players who won’t take wage cuts, which is the only way to drive down wages collectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwhiteandblue 3,330 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: I'd say it most certainly can. Certainly football as we know it, and that's what I'm getting from the ongoing comments from clubs. Given theres no end in sight, they really are expecting the landscape to change. Football wont die. It will go back to an amateur game if it has to, but yes, football as we know it just now certainly can "die" Like I said, we have all been waiting for the football bubble to burst, we just didn't see it happening this way... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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