We cant do the simple things right

[OrangeRab 3,022]

2 hours ago, Jimfanciesthedude said:

They made it to a euro final but can't win away to county and dundee to potentially win a league title

The reason for that is expectation, no one expected us to make seville, everyone expected us to beat county and dundee 

Hence they fucking bottled it

The game with the least expectation to get anything from is at the Piggery. And we do shite there. 

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,391]

We can’t do the basics right but our team also lacks players who have the fundamentals of what people want in footballers these days.

There’s no power either physically or in terms of running power, no real pace, no dynamism, minimal athleticism. Those are the basics you need in football, especially these days when top level footballers are bigger and stronger in terms of muscle mass, size and athletic power than they have ever been.

Some people will say that’s an old fashioned way to look at it, but you have to have those basics nailed down so you can earn the right to play and impose yourself on a game before you start worrying about tactical nuances like inverted fullbacks, false nines and the third central midfielder playing as an “8.5”.

[6superbarry6 14,245]

4 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

We can’t do the basics right but our team also lacks players who have the fundamentals of what people want in footballers these days.

There’s no power either physically or in terms of running power, no real pace, no dynamism, minimal athleticism. Those are the basics you need in football, especially these days when top level footballers are bigger and stronger in terms of muscle mass, size and athletic power than they have ever been.

Some people will say that’s an old fashioned way to look at it, but you have to have those basics nailed down so you can earn the right to play and impose yourself on a game before you start worrying about tactical nuances like inverted fullbacks, false nines and the third central midfielder playing as an “8.5”.

Somebody mentioned an O Neill type team and that’s prob our best chance as sad as that is, they have and can afford better footballers so maybe we need to go that way and build a team to just bully them, despite how our current shitebags play they are far from a big physical side might be time to build a horses for course team at least until we are back in front foot. 

[cr3_bear 15,019]

4 hours ago, KeyserSoze said:

I don’t think anyone in our squad are “bottle merchants”. I just think they are bang average and find it difficult to raise their game. Giving the impression of bottling it. 

Bottling is bottling 

Plenty of evidence from some who have been in the squad since Gerrard's first summer that they can't handle the domestic expectation that comes with Rangers. Maybe pre 55 the whole mantra of chasing Celtic has been hard to shift for some of the senior members of the squad that they haven't been able to shift that mentality from being the chaser to the chased. However that is on the club to clear those players out if that was the case 

Time and time again these players have produced outstanding results and performances on the European stage yet time and time again have been found wanting massively on the domestic stage. Call it bottling, mentality , expectation but there is clearly some underlying issue 

Honestly think the best example to sum it up Rangers the last 7 years (bar 55 season) is the week of Dortmund games. We win 6-4 against Dortmund in aggregate while drawing 1-1 at tannadice between the two legs and the following week surrender a two goal lead at home to Motherwell. It's an attitude that has been allowed to fester for too long 

[KeyserSoze 14,684]

7 hours ago, cr3_bear said:

Bottling is bottling 

Plenty of evidence from some who have been in the squad since Gerrard's first summer that they can't handle the domestic expectation that comes with Rangers. Maybe pre 55 the whole mantra of chasing Celtic has been hard to shift for some of the senior members of the squad that they haven't been able to shift that mentality from being the chaser to the chased. However that is on the club to clear those players out if that was the case 

Time and time again these players have produced outstanding results and performances on the European stage yet time and time again have been found wanting massively on the domestic stage. Call it bottling, mentality , expectation but there is clearly some underlying issue 

Honestly think the best example to sum it up Rangers the last 7 years (bar 55 season) is the week of Dortmund games. We win 6-4 against Dortmund in aggregate while drawing 1-1 at tannadice between the two legs and the following week surrender a two goal lead at home to Motherwell. It's an attitude that has been allowed to fester for too long 

So we don’t bottle it in Europe but bottle it domestically?  But we don’t bottle it regularly just random games? 
 

nah not buying it. Our squad isn’t good enough to sustain a campaign over the season because of quality and depth. Too many players are average and too many squad players are poor. 
 

it’s as simple as that.  

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,925]

9 hours ago, OrangeRab said:

The game with the least expectation to get anything from is at the Piggery. And we do shite there. 

No but every OF game bar ones when the league is done is vitally important overall

And we inevitably shit the bed

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,925]

9 hours ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

We can’t do the basics right but our team also lacks players who have the fundamentals of what people want in footballers these days.

There’s no power either physically or in terms of running power, no real pace, no dynamism, minimal athleticism. Those are the basics you need in football, especially these days when top level footballers are bigger and stronger in terms of muscle mass, size and athletic power than they have ever been.

Some people will say that’s an old fashioned way to look at it, but you have to have those basics nailed down so you can earn the right to play and impose yourself on a game before you start worrying about tactical nuances like inverted fullbacks, false nines and the third central midfielder playing as an “8.5”.

It is old fashioned, but lets be honest scottish football is stuck in the fucking dark ages, we need more old fashioned 

Id rather a marvin andrews type centre half than someone like goldson, 

[cr3_bear 15,019]

30 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

So we don’t bottle it in Europe but bottle it domestically?  But we don’t bottle it regularly just random games? 
 

nah not buying it. Our squad isn’t good enough to sustain a campaign over the season because of quality and depth. Too many players are average and too many squad players are poor. 
 

it’s as simple as that.  

So how would you describe our quite frequent total collapses in form over the last 7 seasons. Think of the winter break returns under Gerrard , throwing away a 6 point lead under Gio and now this latest collapse at the business end of this season 

Bad results happen but title winning  teams respond to the occasional bad result and regroup and refocus. Far too often we allow one bad result to snowball into a month's worth of bad results. You can't tell me you don't think that has anything to do with bottle , mentality ,attitude or whatever you want to call it 

[KeyserSoze 14,684]

10 minutes ago, cr3_bear said:

So how would you describe our quite frequent total collapses in form over the last 7 seasons. Think of the winter break returns under Gerrard , throwing away a 6 point lead under Gio and now this latest collapse at the business end of this season 

Bad results happen but title winning  teams respond to the occasional bad result and regroup and refocus. Far too often we allow one bad result to snowball into a month's worth of bad results. You can't tell me you don't think that has anything to do with bottle , mentality ,attitude or whatever you want to call it 

Quality in strength and depth of squad. Physically fit players that can sustain a challenge over a long period of time. 
 

we are riddled with quite the opposite 

[cr3_bear 15,019]

13 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

Quality in strength and depth of squad. Physically fit players that can sustain a challenge over a long period of time. 
 

we are riddled with quite the opposite 

Look at the Dundee performance which followed dingwall . Slow , pedestrian and a team on the pitch shit scared to take risks and spark some creativity due to backlash if it goes wrong. That's not just down to ability alone that's a mentality issue 

Fair does if we came out and battered Dundee for 90 minutes hitting posts , clearances off the line etc . Then you could blame ability however the performance was rank rotten and looked every bit a team who had crumbled 

[cr3_bear 15,019]

And as for the difference in attitude between Europe and domestic 

Look at last season . One week we are beating PSV Eindhoven 1-0 away in Holland to qualify for the champions league. Up there with one of our most impressive results in Europe even including the last few years of which there have been a few. Around ten days later we are at Parkhead getting 4 put by us. There's an attitude and determination we show in Europe that is often lacking or missing domestically 

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,391]

36 minutes ago, Jimfanciesthedude said:

It is old fashioned, but lets be honest scottish football is stuck in the fucking dark ages, we need more old fashioned 

Id rather a marvin andrews type centre half than someone like goldson, 

We need guys who are athletic and powerful, but it’s vital they can play football too. The idea of reverting to a team just full of hoof ball merchants gives me the fear.

[SkylineBlue 24,256]

I dont know how anyone can argue that this team doesn't have a mentality issue with a straight face anymore.

[KeyserSoze 14,684]

48 minutes ago, SkylineBlue said:

I dont know how anyone can argue that this team doesn't have a mentality issue with a straight face anymore.

My original point, nobody knows them personally so how can you say it’s a “mentality issue” 

we do however know them as football players and the majority aren’t very good at it.  
 

“Bottle merchants” is made up  to excuse our poor footballers. They are inconsistent, physically poor and haven’t the quality to see us through a whole season. 

[SkylineBlue 24,256]

6 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

My original point, nobody knows them personally so how can you say it’s a “mentality issue” 

we do however know them as football players and the majority aren’t very good at it.  
 

“Bottle merchants” is made up  to excuse our poor footballers. They are inconsistent, physically poor and haven’t the quality to see us through a whole season. 

Poor footballers don't regularly beat other big European clubs that they're not expected to. Footballers with a weak mentality will regularly bottle it against teams they are expected to beat when silverware is on the line. 

[STEPPS BOY 75,034]

15 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

My original point, nobody knows them personally so how can you say it’s a “mentality issue” 

we do however know them as football players and the majority aren’t very good at it.  
 

“Bottle merchants” is made up  to excuse our poor footballers. They are inconsistent, physically poor and haven’t the quality to see us through a whole season. 

The players that have been here for a few years now are fucking petrified of that mob and how anyone can say otherwise is beyond me.

[KeyserSoze 14,684]

3 minutes ago, SkylineBlue said:

Poor footballers don't regularly beat other big European clubs that they're not expected to. Footballers with a weak mentality will regularly bottle it against teams they are expected to beat when silverware is on the line. 

We clawed it back to take it to the second last game of the season. We have won a domestic cup already. We are in another final.  
We are regularly shown up when we need a bit of quality on the park to get us over the line. 
not because our team collectively shit it. 
 

strong mentality wise won’t win you games. Skill with a ball will.  
 

 

[cr3_bear 15,019]

11 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

We clawed it back to take it to the second last game of the season. We have won a domestic cup already. We are in another final.  
We are regularly shown up when we need a bit of quality on the park to get us over the line. 
not because our team collectively shit it. 
 

strong mentality wise won’t win you games. Skill with a ball will.  
 

 

You come across as head in the sand if you don't see the quite clear mentality issue that is running through the club and one of the things holding it back 

Strong mentality does win you titles, trophies and football matches  , there is numerous examples of famous victories being won on the pitch with belief and mentality in both our specific history and generally throughout football and all sports . Wild to suggest otherwise 

[KeyserSoze 14,684]

44 minutes ago, cr3_bear said:

You come across as head in the sand if you don't see the quite clear mentality issue that is running through the club and one of the things holding it back 

Strong mentality does win you titles, trophies and football matches  , there is numerous examples of famous victories being won on the pitch with belief and mentality in both our specific history and generally throughout football and all sports . Wild to suggest otherwise 

I don’t personally know them therefore I don’t know their mental state. 

I do however want strong athletic, skilful players that are consistent in their approach to winning games.  
 

that rules out the majority of the current squad.  You stick to your theory despite actually not knowing them on a personal level. 
 

its a poor excuse to say they are bottlers. 

[cr3_bear 15,019]

40 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

I don’t personally know them therefore I don’t know their mental state. 

I do however want strong athletic, skilful players that are consistent in their approach to winning games.  
 

that rules out the majority of the current squad.  You stick to your theory despite actually not knowing them on a personal level. 
 

its a poor excuse to say they are bottlers. 

One of the most bizarre debates ever on here 

Mind games , Psychology , belief , motivation etc are all and always have been massive parts of sports and competing . I couldn't tell you there personal mental state day to day but as a collective doing their profession many of them have bottled it when it matters in our shirt in season defining games and moments time and time again. suggesting their is an issue with it at the club 

Like what do you think made someone like Smith a great manager? Just his general ability to pick a squad full of skilful , strong and athletic players ? Or his man management that was able to build a strong team spirit and instill a strong belief , motivation ,attitude and will to win within his squads to constantly deliver success ?

[HG5 11,410]

14 hours ago, 6superbarry6 said:

Somebody mentioned an O Neill type team and that’s prob our best chance as sad as that is, they have and can afford better footballers so maybe we need to go that way and build a team to just bully them, despite how our current shitebags play they are far from a big physical side might be time to build a horses for course team at least until we are back in front foot. 

I seem to recall that us halting their first 9 in a row was attributed to us playing a power game.

 

[HG5 11,410]

Don’t like to give the scum kudos for anything but, as others have suggested, they probably have more, better players than us.

Added to which, they work their arses off against us - every outfield player gets in the face of or chases down his opposite number.

Then they get in some form of challenge which, successful or not, has the potential to be a foul.

Our lads seem shit scared of this, hence a lot of hurried & often misplaced passing, stopping us putting their supposedly suspect defence under pressure.

Nor do they have the nous or energy to apply the same tactics in the other direction.

Further add in lenient refereeing which allows them licence to commit twice the usual number of fouls before being sanctioned, then twice the normal number of yellows before a red and it’s not hard to see why we struggle to beat them.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,925]

4 hours ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

We need guys who are athletic and powerful, but it’s vital they can play football too. The idea of reverting to a team just full of hoof ball merchants gives me the fear.

Theres a difference between hoof ball and a centre half who is a brick shithouse then passes the ball ten yards to a midfielder to do the creative work

If we have brave midfielders who want the ball all the time (something diomande does a lot) then our centre halves dont need to be creative enough

[OrangeRab 3,022]

Our press hasn’t been a patch on what it was a few months ago. That has ntg to do with the players shitting the bed.