Is Clement getting an easy ride?

[nik2402 1,584]

20 minutes ago, King Jela said:

Mate, that is not correct. He played 4-2-3-1 the first 6 months he was the scum. He did play inverted fullbacks from day 1, but not 4-3-3. And btw, he's literally playing a 4-2-3-1 at Spurs with Maddison as the 10. 

Tav was like a new man between October and March with the new manager bounce. Defensively, that period we were solid as well and he quite clearly played his part in that. Until the inevitable happened. He also played a part in McCausland coming and installly looking like a good edition. Dessers goal scoring ratio went up under Clement. He made the absolute most out of Dessers and got/gets the very best out of Dessers that Dessers can possibly give.

He actually did get the best out of all of them between October and March, while the squad was depleted with injuries. Then the squad we all agreed wasn't good enough had their annual collapse. 

How can we decide his style doesn't work when we don't give him the appropriate time any rebuild needs to implement his style with the raft of new players we've brought in?

So when is an appropriate time to judge his style in your opinion?

[J-Maestro 13,897]

8 minutes ago, nik2402 said:

So when is an appropriate time to judge his style in your opinion?

You can judge him as early or as late as you want, but the reality is he'll be seeing out the season.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,326]

1 hour ago, esquire8 said:

Nah, we've drastically reduced the wage bill, done a stand rebuild on the cheap, not bothered hiring a CEO and gave the Academy Director job to the B team manager because we are absolutely minted.

Hearing the incoming CEO isn't so much best in class but best for (shite) budget too.

We deserve what we get.

[King Jela 21,591]

11 minutes ago, nik2402 said:

So when is an appropriate time to judge his style in your opinion?

Could you be clearer in what you mean? 

Plenty have already made their mind up about his style of play.

[BlueSuedeSambas 56,369]

1 hour ago, King Jela said:

Rewind 2 years and you could've made the same argument still. 

How have we fared with that strategy post-Gerrard? 

 

Poorly, but that shouldn’t make him immune from the threat of losing his job, especially when he’s making plenty of poor choices of his own doing.

I’ve said all along that our problems run far deeper than the manager. Until we sort them out we won’t progress as a club, and that’s probably going to be what keeps Clement in a job.

[King Jela 21,591]

20 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Poorly, but that shouldn’t make him immune from the threat of losing his job, especially when he’s making plenty of poor choices of his own doing.

I’ve said all along that our problems run far deeper than the manager. Until we sort them out we won’t progress as a club, and that’s probably going to be what keeps Clement in a job.

I don't know why folk feel the need to add this over dramatic slant to any arguments in favour of stability. No one's arguing he should be immune from losing his job, or some bizarre narrative that we're putting Phil's CV before the future of the club. Nowhere in any of my posts was there me defending the flaws in his tactics or the pish he spouts after defeats. He deserves every bit of criticism for his personal flaws when it comes to what's in his control.

So, you actually agree then? 

[BlueSuedeSambas 56,369]

Just now, King Jela said:

I don't know why folk feel the need to add this over dramatic slant to any arguments in favour of stability. No one's arguing he should be immune from losing his job, or some bizarre narrative that we're putting Phil's CV before the future of the club. Nowhere in any of my posts was there me defending the flaws in his tactics or the pish he spouts after defeats. He deserves every bit of criticism for his personal flaws when it comes to what's in his control.

So, you actually agree then? 

Not really. I think at this point he should only be a couple of bad results away from the sack, but even if they don’t come I don’t think that’s what will happen.

[King Jela 21,591]

9 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Not really. I think at this point he should only be a couple of bad results away from the sack, but even if they don’t come I don’t think that’s what will happen.

Now you're contradicting yourself. 

You said just the other day the boardroom should be fixed before we think about replacing the manager. Now you think he should be sacked after a couple of bad results? 

What lessons are we learning if we're buckling after dropping points during a period where we're expecting to drop points because we're in the middle of a rebuild? Absolutely sweet fuck all. 

How do we not look at previous history with sacking managers and the state we're currently in, as well as even looking across the city with them and Postecoglu and not learn anything from it at all? 

It's fucking crazy.

 

[NI 930]

2 hours ago, Amato said:

I think the board extended Clement's contract in full knowledge the season was likely to be a write off. All the noises coming out of Ibrox are that we're carrying out a rebuild with a view to finally sorting long standing issues. It's only the start of the rebuild. The contract extension was a way of showing commitment to the long term plan and stopping the clamour for yet another sacking when the inevitable happens and we lose more ground in the league (imo).

That doesn't make any sense to me.

So now, the board (and us) are stuck with him because we owe him more cause he has his long term contract signed. If we did nothing, the sack would've cost way less. Why would we do that ? I don't get it.

[Prso's headband 36,750]

Our current trajectory has us finishing on 75 points, 20 behind them and level with Aberdeen. Not big into all these new stats measurements but pretty sure we can see from our own eyes how likely that is. 

[Stunels 1,370]

1 hour ago, J-Maestro said:

You can judge him as early or as late as you want, but the reality is he'll be seeing out the season.

I think he will see out the season (with the contract extention he was given, it would bankrupt us to sack him).  But it is going to get so, so toxic by xmas when there is nothing left to win but the ScottishCup.

[King Jela 21,591]

3 minutes ago, Prso's headband said:

Our current trajectory has us finishing on 75 points, 20 behind them and level with Aberdeen. Not big into all these new stats measurements but pretty sure we can see from our own eyes how likely that is. 

I think we'll finish on 80-85 again tbh. 

The tarriers will break 100 of they want/need to. 

[BlueSuedeSambas 56,369]

22 minutes ago, King Jela said:

Now you're contradicting yourself. 

You said just the other day the boardroom should be fixed before we think about replacing the manager. Now you think he should be sacked after a couple of bad results? 

What lessons are we learning if we're buckling after dropping points during a period where we're expecting to drop points because we're in the middle of a rebuild? Absolutely sweet fuck all. 

How do we not look at previous history with sacking managers and the state we're currently in, as well as even looking across the city with them and Postecoglu and not learn anything from it at all? 

It's fucking crazy.

 

My personal opinion is that if poor results continue then his job should be reviewed, regardless of what is going on in the background, and if that happens, and we decide to part ways with him, I think we should put a caretaker in charge until such a time as we sort out the other issues at the club so that when we put people into positions of power, they can appoint the manager that they want, at a time (the Summer) when he isn’t going to come in and instantly be battling to not be tainted by association because they have had to turn around an inherited shitshow, on and off the park.

In reality, that’s not what I think will actually happen. Clement will be too expensive to sack, they’ve publicly backed him with a new deal and there are so many other issues which need to be addressed first so they will be happy for him to continue in the role because it’s one less thing to worry about.

I’m not really sure what’s so hard to understand about that. People can think something should happen, but expect something else to happen too.

[Roy Hobbs 2,906]

7 minutes ago, Prso's headband said:

Our current trajectory has us finishing on 75 points, 20 behind them and level with Aberdeen. Not big into all these new stats measurements but pretty sure we can see from our own eyes how likely that is. 

I don't think any 3rd place club has ever finished on 75 so I'm not sure where those stats are calculated from.

[NixonRFC 1,570]

8 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

I don't think any 3rd place club has ever finished on 75 so I'm not sure where those stats are calculated from.

Aberdeen got 75 points in 2014-15 and 76 points in 2016-17, but they finished 2nd in those seasons, 16-17 is ultea embarrassing as we were in the league that year.

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,571]

3 hours ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Rewind a year and this is almost word for word the same argument people could have made for Michael Beale.

Big difference in their level of experience in the game, clement at least has a cv that points to eventual success, 

Arguably gerrard only got as long as he did because there was clear improvement on the previous regime, beale arguably took us backwards, same for gio

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,571]

2 hours ago, nik2402 said:

I spoke to guys I do work with when Postecoglu came in. They were losing games and still saying the football was brilliant. They could see what he was trying to do. 
 

Clement has been here almost a year and there isn’t a sustained style of play. If we could see positive signs we would all get behind him. But this pish about needing to give him more time is a nonsense. I’ve said for months his style won’t change even when he gets better players. He isn’t he answer.

 

How many players has he improved since he got here?

Had gerrard not had such a shit start to that season, the tarrier mindset for Postecoglu would have been much different 

We had quite possibly the easiest first round of fixtures ive ever seen for us, no piggery, no trips to sheep, hearts, hibs or livi, our hardest away game was united away (we lost) and 3 times we shat the bed at home and drew

Had we even won another two of they 4 games and gio had us 11 or 12pts clear at xmas, their mindset would have been much much different 

[J-Maestro 13,897]

9 minutes ago, Jimfanciesthedude said:

Had gerrard not had such a shit start to that season, the tarrier mindset for Postecoglu would have been much different 

We had quite possibly the easiest first round of fixtures ive ever seen for us, no piggery, no trips to sheep, hearts, hibs or livi, our hardest away game was united away (we lost) and 3 times we shat the bed at home and drew

Had we even won another two of they 4 games and gio had us 11 or 12pts clear at xmas, their mindset would have been much much different 

It was even getting close to it if the Old Firm game hadn't been suspended.

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,571]

11 minutes ago, J-Maestro said:

It was even getting close to it if the Old Firm game hadn't been suspended.

Yup, had we played the sheep and tarriers pre break and won both, they'd have went into full meltdown

 

[HG5 12,198]

If he’s not got his new guys firing by Christmas (and lifting those that were already here) then he’ll have to go.

That’s over 20 matches to work things out.

If it’s not happening by then, it never will.

Think that’s a decent enough span to demonstrate that he / they got the offloading & the recruitment right & can be trusted going forwards.

 

[Roy Hobbs 2,906]

1 hour ago, NixonRFC said:

Aberdeen got 75 points in 2014-15 and 76 points in 2016-17, but they finished 2nd in those seasons, 16-17 is ultea embarrassing as we were in the league that year.

So no team has ever finished 3rd with that many points?

[Amato 3,094]

1 hour ago, NI said:

That doesn't make any sense to me.

So now, the board (and us) are stuck with him because we owe him more cause he has his long term contract signed. If we did nothing, the sack would've cost way less. Why would we do that ? I don't get it.

Because they have no intention of sacking him as they know winning the league isn't realistic this season with the resources he's been given 

[NI 930]

2 minutes ago, Amato said:

Because they have no intention of sacking him as they know winning the league isn't realistic this season with the resources he's been given 

He did not win a single OF and we play horrible Football, why would they think he will win the league one day ?

Not being first and no UCL money, they know it can't stay that way forever.

[GA1972 10,309]

Managers deserve time when you can see that they’re changing things and that there’s a method to what they’re trying to do 

What we’re watching is a guy with a scroll of excuses changing fuck all about how his team plays or sets up and is expecting it just to magically click through ‘automatism’ or some shite 

He tried to say we shouldn’t be too down about getting pumped off the scum because we beat Ross County 6-0 ffs. Previous managers would’ve got hounded for that and rightly so 

[King Jela 21,591]

1 hour ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

My personal opinion is that if poor results continue then his job should be reviewed, regardless of what is going on in the background, and if that happens, and we decide to part ways with him, I think we should put a caretaker in charge until such a time as we sort out the other issues at the club so that when we put people into positions of power, they can appoint the manager that they want, at a time (the Summer) when he isn’t going to come in and instantly be battling to not be tainted by association because they have had to turn around an inherited shitshow, on and off the park.

In reality, that’s not what I think will actually happen. Clement will be too expensive to sack, they’ve publicly backed him with a new deal and there are so many other issues which need to be addressed first so they will be happy for him to continue in the role because it’s one less thing to worry about.

I’m not really sure what’s so hard to understand about that. People can think something should happen, but expect something else to happen too.

I still don't understand after reading that twice tbh. 

As far as your personal opinion goes, if he's dropping points in the first 3-6 months period we expect to drop points in why would his position then be reviewed when dropped points occur? 

And why in the love of God would appointing Alex Rae, who has even less of a clue in management (no offence to Alex there either) to take over that first 3-6 month period mentioned, to drop more points for the rest of the season be a good solution? 

I'm sorry, but that really is difficult to understand.