See all these fans who are offended by songs, swearing, drunk fans etc

[keithgersbear 3,225]

Where did I say that?

I'm talking about songs that are deemed illegal that people continue to sing, regardless of the fact it will eventually bring further sanctions from UEFA and the SFA, not to mention the damage it does to our reputation worldwide.

Is singing these songs at a football match more important to you that the reputation of your club?

I don't think the world gives a damn that some people decided to sing some offensive songs at a 3rd division game in Scottish football.

[baxterboy 476]

Of course I heard those terms.And I also heard n***er,black bastard,darkie,coon,sambo,nig nog paki,But thank fuck as a society we have grown up and these terms are frowned upon and illegal.

And no I don't think they do actually hear the terms and names you referr to in the playground and street.Never once has my boy come home and ask me what a Fenian is,or a h**.

You make assumptions on here that I never experienced or took part in any sectarian exploits.I can assure you,I earned my spurs in the eighties,when tbh I knew very few Rangers song but plenty of loyalist.

Travelled on the Westwood,Ally McCoist and Rutherglen True Blues buses.Terrified grannies all over Scotland singing about terrorists and ancient battles.So aye,been there,seen it done.Does not make it right.

But here's the thing,I grew up,had kids and realised that all that stuff was just bigoted bile.Absolutely nothing to do with Rangers.

The problem with the uber loyalist is they really know fuck all about Rangers and our history.

There's posters on here who know me from the old days and can confirm I ran with the uber loyalists back in the day.

And thank fuck,the extremists are now getting marginalised.

of course, you've heard these terms and the other ones.

i had no doubt of that.

my question was - what psychological damage did it do to you?

once we establish this, we can assess just exactly how much damage it has on our kids and take the necessary steps to help them.

well i dont know what school your kid goes to, but i can assure you that after teaching in lower and upper class schools that the lexicon of these kids is not exclusively from sesame street.

it's interesting that your kid has never asked you about what 'fenian' is. since he has attended games at ibrox i am sure he has heard the term. and since he hasn't brought it up, it would seem to indicate he doesn't have much of a problem with it.

and don't you think, as part of his education, he should have an awareness at some point in time of 'fenians' and have knowledge about these terrorists who killed innocents like himself with their cowardly bombs?

and you're wrong when you say i assumed you never took part in any sectarian exploits. i made no such assumption or implied it.

and in regards to these songs being illegal now - this is correct.

however, are the laws just?

in this particular case, i am of the opinion they are not.

and as a responsible citizen in the traditions of ghandi, jefferson, thoreau, martin luther king, and st augustine, to name but a few, i chose to express my resistance to unjust laws rather than acquiesce to them, and frankly, i have little respect for those who respect and participate in laws that are blatantly unjust.

furthermore, i believe your assessment of 'terrified' scottish grannies is as naive and as erroneous as your observations on scottish playgrounds!

i was not that much older than your kid coming out of a cup final against saville fc at hampden, and chasing a full double decker.

there was a very nice auld granny standing at the entrance of the bus holding on for dear life, while trying to eat her fish supper.

as i was running to jump on she asked me , 'whit wis the score, son?'

'the Gers won!" i shouted raising my scarf.

'Fuckin bastards!!" she yelled and threw the fish supper in my face.

with respect, i think you highly underestimate the mental toughness of scottish grannies as well as your son.

[Big Al 55 9,252]

I don't think the world gives a damn that some people decided to sing some offensive songs at a 3rd division game in Scottish football.

I think when UEFA intervene you are totally wrong, and that's also a poor argument for continuing to do it.

Absolutely it damages our reputation, it also deters people from bringing their children to games.

[keithgersbear 3,225]

I think when UEFA intervene you are totally wrong, and that's also a poor argument for continuing to do it.

Absolutely it damages our reputation, it also deters people from bringing their children to games.

I'd imagine wrecking Manchester would do that more than some offensive songs but if that is the view you have, fair enough.

[baxterboy 476]

Many boardrooms talking about Papes, Taigs etc etc? No

Dont talk mince.

perhaps, if you read the post correctly, rather than make up your own mince you'll note that the term 'profanity' is used in relation to boardrooms.

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

My point is though take away the UDA/UVF chants (I would not chant them anyway) and you will ALWAYS find people from the other side and Scottish football in general will find something we sing as supporters offensive and will complain. It is the way it is. It doesn't have to be about the UDA/UVF to be offensive which many people will fail to realise.

When the Billy boys stopped, they actually moved on to Penny Arcade and I remember Douglas Alexander in the times saying Penny Arcade had a sectarian subtext. If people want to be offended they will find a way.

true but i can't ever see the police arrest you for a song thats been in the charts.

the fact is, we complain, IMO quite rightly, about the bile that comes from the mhanks so it is to be expected we get the same back.

but to say that religious songs have a place in the modern day game is wrong. if you want to sing it, do it where it's relevant.

[Big Al 55 9,252]

I'd imagine wrecking Manchester would do that more than some offensive songs but if that is the view you have, fair enough.

I'd prefer to have neither, a rather childish retort.

[keithgersbear 3,225]

I'd prefer to have neither, a rather childish retort.

Factual. The world isn't perfect Big Al. Get used to that.

[Big Al 55 9,252]

Factual. The world isn't perfect Big Al. Get used to that.

Just agree to disagree.

You seem happy to continue to sing illegal songs at Ibrox and bring further sanctions upon us. I don't, doesn't mean I wrecked Manchester either. I got a ticket

[Devlin 222]

got to say i think it's fucking laughable when you hear wee 15 year olds standing up singing about the UVF/UDA, being loyal ulstermen etc when they've never been out the fucking city and have no clue what their singing about.

Ageist. Just the same as people your age doing it.

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

Ageist. Just the same as people your age doing it.

given you don't go to games you won't be aware of who's doing it.

And given you're an uneducated tit you won't realise that people my age grew up with this on the news all the time and may even have been involved in the conflicts prior to the ceasefire so for them it may have more relevance and their awareness would be heightened despite it not being something that should be aired at a football match.

[gogzy 31,195]

And again. What rules do the football authorities have in place in Scotchland to do us with naughty songs? Unless they make new ones up of course

But I would like someone to show me this

Would NOT be like the Scottish Fitba people to make new rules up to punish Rangers, That's crazy talk

[Thermopylae 15,286]

I'd imagine wrecking Manchester would do that more than some offensive songs but if that is the view you have, fair enough.

I hardly think a few neds tanked up on an away day runnig down a street equates to wrecking manchester

[Devlin 222]

given you don't go to games you won't be aware of who's doing it.

And given you're an uneducated tit you won't realise that people my age grew up with this on the news all the time and may even have been involved in the conflicts prior to the ceasefire so for them it may have more relevance and their awareness would be heightened despite it not being something that should be aired at a football match.

I do go to games and are you seriously saying it's just the 15 year olds that sing about that shit not fully understanding?

I'm not uneducated, you're the tit that always makes it personal yet looks like a mongo when trying to debate something, you were shown up last week by almost the whole board ffs

[Guest]

i'm not offended by any songs, sung by us or others but football is not about singing, it's a game. And support is about your team, not things form the conflict in NI.

do you think it's right for celtic fans to sing about the IRA? if like me you don't, why is it ok for some Rangers fans to sing about terrorist groups on the other side of the religious divide?

we should distance ourselves from the bile across the city, not match it with songs about the UDA/UVF.

I dont hear any UDA songs at Ibrox, certainly not now anyway. And the UVF referred to in some songs was a regiment of the British army, not a terrorist organization like the provos that the vhermin sing about.

[Chef 436]

People like the OP seem to like preaching about this injustice as he sees it and he may have a point to an extent, I never ever hear his sort offering to pay fines for a cause he is so wrapped up in, we know where we are, we know what legislation is out thr about chants and songs. If they won't accept a different version of somethings and won't pay fines for something they feel so strong about how about the OP explains the position the club will be put in and how he will help with that at the time when we are being shat on.

[Guest]

And to be fair to Devlins argument, I know plenty of 15-20 year olds who chant UVF and post it on their facebook and the like when they have literally no clue what theyre on about.

People assume just because your a Rangers fan means you must be a loyalist etc. Bad education plays part in it. People being brought up by their parents and go to see Rangers or Celtic and see and hear things and are taught things such as the loyalist and republican side of things. People are brought up thinking that Rangers are the Protestant/Loyalist side and Sellik are the Catholic/Republican side, its just that theyre not told why. Theyre not educated on how or why these conflicts exist, just that they do exist and that they should be or are on one side, but not educated about the facts or left to make their own opinion.

I remember going to games when I was young and seeing orange shirts everywhere and red hands and hearing "the cry was no surrender" and "with a rifle or a pistol in my hand" and not knowing what it meant at all. My dad never brought me up to have any religious beliefs or political beliefs, I was left to figure out those things myself and make my own choices. My dad and I didnt discuss loyalism or the troubles or anything like that until I was older. I made my own choices and most of those choices and beliefs are now the same as my fathers, we agree on most issues and disagree on a few too. But I wasnt simply told "your a protestant/loyalist"

Most folk at 15-20 who speak about loyalism etc have no reason why they believe it other than that they were brought up that way. At least when you make your own decisions on these issues then you know why youve made the choice youve made.

[The Dude 20,026]

Let me give an example here.

I smoke cannabis. I do so on a daily basis. Now, I completely disagree with the laws in this country re drugs. Not just Cannabis but all drugs. I think prohibition is a foolish way to try and tackle the problem. Even though I whole heartedly disagree with the current legislation and will break it in private or with friends, I will not sit somewhere where I know my behaviour relating to my drug use will be monitored and I will not openly break the law, regardless of my personal feelings towards it, infront of the Police.

So, why is singing about fornicating with the head of a religious organisation or anything which has been deemed 'sectarian' any different?

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

I do go to games and are you seriously saying it's just the 15 year olds that sing about that shit not fully understanding?

I'm not uneducated, you're the tit that always makes it personal yet looks like a mongo when trying to debate something, you were shown up last week by almost the whole board ffs

did i say that it's just 15 year olds? go and get your mum to read my post to you again.

oh aye, shown up by me thinking someone looked a wanker. It's hardly like having my picture,life and twitter ripped to bits on here like you get regularly.

keep trying devoid, ask your mum to help you, she's heard better patter from all the punters giving her abuse.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Let me give an example here.

I smoke cannabis. I do so on a daily basis. Now, I completely disagree with the laws in this country re drugs. Not just Cannabis but all drugs. I think prohibition is a foolish way to try and tackle the problem. Even though I whole heartedly disagree with the current legislation and will break it in private or with friends, I will not sit somewhere where I know my behaviour relating to my drug use will be monitored and I will not openly break the law, regardless of my personal feelings towards it, infront of the Police.

So, why is singing about fornicating with the head of a religious organisation or anything which has been deemed 'sectarian' any different?

Following the logic of your argument, presumably you would not sing anything which might get you into trouble. Which is fine, nobody is telling you what to sing.

Presumably you would not be hypocritical and tell other people whether or not they should use cannabis?

And if they do, presumably you would not tell them in what circumstances they should use it?

[keithgersbear 3,225]

Just agree to disagree.

You seem happy to continue to sing illegal songs at Ibrox and bring further sanctions upon us. I don't, doesn't mean I wrecked Manchester either. I got a ticket

Nothing to do with me. I am just pointing out that the argument offensive songs should not happen is a bit flawed because everyone has a view on what is offensive. What is legal today might be illegal tomorrow.

[keithgersbear 3,225]

I hardly think a few neds tanked up on an away day runnig down a street equates to wrecking manchester

To be fair, I know it was a small minority but there was more than just a few neds rioting in Manchester. But that was besides the point, my point was incidents like that is what can damage our clubs reputation, not some people singing some songs which are "deemed" to be offensive or even illegal songs.

[The Dude 20,026]

Following the logic of your argument, presumably you would not sing anything which might get you into trouble. Which is fine, nobody is telling you what to sing.

Presumably you would not be hypocritical and tell other people whether or not they should use cannabis?

And if they do, presumably you would not tell them in what circumstances they should use it?

I would advise people from my own experiences in the situation. I would highlight the risks associated with it but also the benefits it can bring. I would in EVERY instance tell people what circumstances to use it. I would never tell anyone to do something which would only put them in the firing line of the police.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I would advise people from my own experiences in the situation. I would highlight the risks associated with it but also the benefits it can bring. I would in EVERY instance tell people what circumstances to use it. I would never tell anyone to do something which would only put them in the firing line of the police.

So, would tell other people whether or not they should use cannabis?

And if they do, would you tell them in what circumstances they should use it?

[Big Al 55 9,252]

Nothing to do with me. I am just pointing out that the argument offensive songs should not happen is a bit flawed because everyone has a view on what is offensive. What is legal today might not be illegal tomorrow.

Its illegal FFS.

Offensive is subjective, illegal is not.