The RST's Takeover Plans

[ZimmyGer 1]

The concept may be the same but there are a list fo reasons why it is possible it may work at barca and real and germany but won't work in Scotland, most of those are to do with external funding sources for the clubs.

Attitudes are also completely different amongst the supporters of these clubs and there is an appetite for these sorts of schemes, that attitude does not exist in Scotland and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

Capital behind ownership being a good thing is a red herring in your opinion and you think my opinion is flawed...

Explain then why Celtic aren't going to bust the bank or have allowed the title to escape them two seasons in a row?

They have the capital behind the ownership....go on the floor is yours.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

I have serious doubts about it tbh.

We still need a sugar daddy, do not see where the transfer kitty will come from.

Not to mention all the people who would need to donate £1500, where the hell would they come from ?

Now you are just being daft. You don't think a sizeable amount of fans could invest in Rangers to own the club?

Murray launched a variety of schemes over the years for a lot less in return. He did it many times.

It won't be easy to sell because it is a new way of thinking but there is no doubt in my mind the potential is there to make it workable, easily workable

You're being daft if you think they could find that amount of people to buy a membership in the club. How long has the trust being going (with it's main aim of buying the club for the supporters) and you can count its members in hundreds....how long has gersave being going and what % of the club does it own ? How many people attented the recent conference concerning this issue where representitives from hamburg etc were there to discuss this subject against the backdrop of the trust leaking stories to the herald saying we had x amount of days to save the club ?

Face facts no one is interested in this sort of scheme for rangers or anywhere in Scotland.

That again is not a correct comparison-attracting people to an organisation is different than saying-this is your club-do you want to own it, do you want to play a part in its future? Gersave has been a minor success-it is generating some cash at a time when the club isn't generating much-you name me another scheme invented for the fans for the club that has a cheque for £50K waiting to be handed over?

You are talking facts but there are no facts on the ownership model, it has never been presented to the support-if the deal is good, if the right people are in place, if pledges are made upfront, if the strategy for the club is good then imho it is more than viable.

Eh...one is an orignisation whose reason for being (well it was at birth) was to buy yhte club...apathy has taken over after initial interest, gersave was not and is not a success, as i said what % of the club has been bought with it ? Sure a small amount fo cash ahs been raised and these same people would probably buy into this new scheme but it;s the people outside them you need to worry about (and a main investor if Mccoll's comments are anything to go by?

If you pay for memebership do you own part of the club...what happens after five years if you stop paying your "subs" ? Who holds the actual shares ?

[nemisis 358]

Latest press reports say that McColl wants no financial involvement at all and only lately started going to see Rangers having previously been a Partick Thistle fan.

Owing to the level of mistrust within the rangers support of anything to do with the leader of the rst, he would have to go before fan involvement could get anyhere near where this could be talked about as a possibility.

[Stu1993 101]

i think Ewan was spot on tonight on RR. After we generate the money from the fans which is £80M if 52,000 fans which fill ibrox give £1500 then were does that go ? £30M to the bank for the debt and im sure SDM Would want money also. Much would we be left with and how long would that last before further investment

[ZimmyGer 1]

All I'm reading here is that we'll clear the debt, then stand around looking at each other thinking: "So, how do we run a football club?"

Just as I said at the start, more questions and answers at this point hence the scepticism.

No I would suspect there would be a strong strategy linked to the scheme for how the club would be run.

You think people are going to invest money when there is no plan?

It's not the sceptical aspect that worries me it is the level of thought people apply to coming up with various fears and questions.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

The concept may be the same but there are a list fo reasons why it is possible it may work at barca and real and germany but won't work in Scotland, most of those are to do with external funding sources for the clubs.

Attitudes are also completely different amongst the supporters of these clubs and there is an appetite for these sorts of schemes, that attitude does not exist in Scotland and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

Capital behind ownership being a good thing is a red herring in your opinion and you think my opinion is flawed...

Explain then why Celtic aren't going to bust the bank or have allowed the title to escape them two seasons in a row?

They have the capital behind the ownership....go on the floor is yours.

As the man with the capital has chosen not to invest further as he would then need to buy a majority stake in the club or he simply doesn't want to.

If Sellck were in serious trouble and desmonds investment was under threat then he would have the facility to help them (as he did by paying robbie keanes huge wage), that is what i am talking about.

[papaguy51 912]

All I'm reading here is that we'll clear the debt, then stand around looking at each other thinking: "So, how do we run a football club?"

Just as I said at the start, more questions and answers at this point hence the scepticism.

No I would suspect there would be a strong strategy linked to the scheme for how the club would be run.

You think people are going to invest money when there is no plan?

It's not the sceptical aspect that worries me it is the level of thought people apply to coming up with various fears and questions.

You can't blame people for being thorough and looking at this from every angle available. We are fans, that's what we'll do.

I'm more worried about the people who want to place their undiminished trust in the RST without asking anything about their plans.

[Muiry12 7]

Fuck sake guys it was the evening times that started shite!!!!!!!! Take it with an ounce of cracked sea salt.

[gandhisflip 5]

I think it's 'easy workable' at all.

We couldn't even sell out our ground for CL games at £40 a pop.

That's not exactly the same thing is it?

No, but we don't have a model to work on.

As GCL has pointed out, basing this on Spanish or German economic conditions is utterly, utterly pointless in terms of finances.

We could learn from them (and I believe a rep from the Hamburg committee was over in Glasgow now long ago speaking to us about it) in terms of the day-to-day running of the club, but my concerns lie in the future financing.

Basing what on German or Spanish economic conditions???????

They are a million miles ahead of us financially whether we are talking Murray at the helm, Abrahmovic or the Rangers fans. I'm talking about a way to get the club out of debt and ran by excellent businessmen who are Gers men, and answerable to Rangers fans.

I think people have to seperate the fact that the lack of money in Scottish vs Spanish football, and fans ownership are 2 very different issues.

If say Jim McColl backed a fans bid tomorrow. He paid up the money needed to buy Rangers and clear debt - i don't know that figure but let's call it £35m. Over the next 5yrs we sell packets of shares for £1500 (payable over 5yrs its less than £30 per month) Now different from Gerssave or joining the trust this gives you voting rights in the running of Rangers and a chance to save the club you claim to love. Say Rangers have somewhere between 250,000 to 750,000 fans worldwide. We'd only require between 3% and 10% to buy into any proposed scheme to raise that £35m (depending on how many fans there actually are).

What's different? Well the bank isn't involved any more and vetoing decisions. Walter Smith would be given a playing budget for the year and a sensible wag structure but within that he can wheel and deal. We'd be able to vote for and hire the best professionals at board room and managerial level to grow the club - ie the Financial Director with the best plans, the Marketing Director with the best ways of raising new investment. Once we had the basic number in place and the club was in a good place we could hopefully start attracting some of that other 90% of fans to get involved.

It's a big change but it's certainly do-able.

[ZimmyGer 1]

Eh...one is an orignisation whose reason for being (well it was at birth) was to buy yhte club...apathy has taken over after initial interest, gersave was not and is not a success, as i said what % of the club has been bought with it ? Sure a small amount fo cash ahs been raised and these same people would probably buy into this new scheme but it;s the people outside them you need to worry about (and a main investor if Mccoll's comments are anything to go by?

If you pay for memebership do you own part of the club...what happens after five years if you stop paying your "subs" ? Who holds the actual shares ?

So you agree no other group of fans have generated nearly £100K as Gersave has......good

You are now back asking questions on the detail which you well know doesn't exist....you never did answer the leak question either did you?

[ZimmyGer 1]

All I'm reading here is that we'll clear the debt, then stand around looking at each other thinking: "So, how do we run a football club?"

You can't blame people for being thorough and looking at this from every angle available. We are fans, that's what we'll do.

I'm more worried about the people who want to place their undiminished trust in the RST without asking anything about their plans.

Of course they should ask questions and they will-selling the ownership model to our support is a massive task-people will need convinced.

I'm talking about the level of debate which imho so far seems relatively shallow.

[gandhisflip 5]

All I'm reading here is that we'll clear the debt, then stand around looking at each other thinking: "So, how do we run a football club?"

Just as I said at the start, more questions and answers at this point hence the scepticism.

Papaguy - and like i said earlier mate i don't think you understand the concept. Do you think we all meet in a big hall somewhere after purchase and selcet the kind of food we'd want on sale that season?

And this is one of the few pl

[Stu1993 101]

after we, the fans, put up our money, Where does the future investment come in if we dont have the CL Money.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

What leak question ?

How does it work at barca then, do you own the shares of the club or does the scheme. It was you who said buying into this buys you part of the club so if no detail exists why say that ?

Plenty of fans have put more than 100k collectively into the club for no return. The grersave people, funnily enough, got shares for what they put in.

[gandhisflip 5]

All I'm reading here is that we'll clear the debt, then stand around looking at each other thinking: "So, how do we run a football club?"

Just as I said at the start, more questions and answers at this point hence the scepticism.

Papaguy - and like i said earlier mate i don't think you understand the concept. Do you think we all meet in a big hall somewhere after purchase and selcet the kind of food we'd want on sale that season?

And this is one of the few places where a Barca comparison is relevant - the fans would vote for a board management team like Juan Laporta at Barca. Before elections you have Party A saying - I will bring in an Easter European scouting network, increase revenues by 20% by doing this. Party B saying - we will only buy players under 23 with a resale value. Party C - saying something else. We vote for them and they have a 2yr term. If the dont deliver they are voted out and lose their job to someone who will. It's accountability.

[papaguy51 912]

Perhaps I'm not as hopeful as you.

Although the idea of all of us going into a big hall and having a debate about everything does sound quite appealing, we'd need referees for that

[ZimmyGer 1]

What leak question ?

How does it work at barca then, do you own the shares of the club or does the scheme. It was you who said buying into this buys you part of the club so if no detail exists why say that ?

Plenty of fans have put more than 100k collectively into the club for no return. The grersave people, funnily enough, got shares for what they put in.

I think you are at it-you asked away back who leaked the story to the press infered it came from the RST and I suggested it was more damaging than good and asked you to explain why you thought it was good.

I was suggesting the difference between joining the RST and taking up the option to invest in the club was totally and utterly different-there are no details of how the ownership deal will work that's been stated umpteen times now.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

Perhaps I'm not as hopeful as you.

No wonder , his back of the fag packet calculations about how easy this would be to work are ridiculous......

[gandhisflip 5]

All I'm reading here is that we'll clear the debt, then stand around looking at each other thinking: "So, how do we run a football club?"

Just as I said at the start, more questions and answers at this point hence the scepticism.

Papaguy - and like i said earlier mate i don't think you understand the concept. Do you think we all meet in a big hall somewhere after purchase and selcet the kind of food we'd want on sale that season?

And this is one of the few places where a Barca comparison is relevant - the fans would vote for a board management team like Juan Laporta at Barca. Before elections you have Party A saying - I will bring in an Easter European scouting network, increase revenues by 20% by doing this. Party B saying - we will only buy players under 23 with a resale value. Party C - saying something else. We vote for them and they have a 2yr term. If the dont deliver they are voted out and lose their job to someone who will. It's accountability.

I'm astounded that most of the posters on this thread aren't extremely interested in finding out much more about a fans ownership scheme. That's all i'm asking. Hell - if the detail isn't right i wouldn't back it. In principle it's a great idea - it will take a great sales job and lots of evidence to get 20,000 people to part with £1500. However that's the job for down the line. First thing that was required was a credible backer - if someone like Jim McColl is that man then that's a very important bridge crossed. His businesses turnover nearly twice as much as Murray's. I'm sure his advisors can put together a very detailed plan for the club - can i ask we at least here what there is to say?

[papaguy51 912]

I'm not really getting a lot of answers here to be fair GCL.

It seems the two posters who unreservedly back this are pretty good at telling us what's been reported, but I'm not really hearing anything new.

[Stu1993 101]

Perhaps I'm not as hopeful as you.

No wonder , his back of the fag packet calculations about how easy this would be to work are ridiculous......

i think he ran out of space and just had a rough number

[ZimmyGer 1]

Perhaps I'm not as hopeful as you.

No wonder , his back of the fag packet calculations about how easy this would be to work are ridiculous......

And you didn't answer the question on finance on ownership and how Celtic with their greater money behind them managed to lose the last two titles.......

[gandhisflip 5]

Perhaps I'm not as hopeful as you.

No wonder , his back of the fag packet calculations about how easy this would be to work are ridiculous......

No problem GCL - i'll get my financial advisors and legal team to put together an 80 page brief on my detailed plans for this £50m enterprise that is Rangers FC. I'll make it really easy to understand and i'll send you a copy. For the moment please make do with my fag packet calculations given we are on a fans forum and im replying in real time.

thanks

Jim McColl

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

What leak question ?

How does it work at barca then, do you own the shares of the club or does the scheme. It was you who said buying into this buys you part of the club so if no detail exists why say that ?

Plenty of fans have put more than 100k collectively into the club for no return. The grersave people, funnily enough, got shares for what they put in.

I think you are at it-you asked away back who leaked the story to the press infered it came from the RST and I suggested it was more damaging than good and asked you to explain why you thought it was good.

I was suggesting the difference between joining the RST and taking up the option to invest in the club was totally and utterly different-there are no details of how the ownership deal will work that's been stated umpteen times now.

The herald has been fed stories by the RST since all this strated in October (they must have forgotten how much they disliked them when they employed spiers~) and now you think they would damage that replationship by printing this...ah well each to there own i suppose. ( although with Mccoll rubbishing it he doesn't seem very happy about being linked to them)

you are right joining an organisation whose sole purpose is supporters ownership and taking part in a supporters ownership scheme is like chalk and chees.....silly me.....

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

Perhaps I'm not as hopeful as you.

No wonder , his back of the fag packet calculations about how easy this would be to work are ridiculous......

And you didn't answer the question on finance on ownership and how Celtic with their greater money behind them managed to lose the last two titles.......

That wasn't the question you asked ........although it's an easy one to answer

His name is Walter Smith......