The official "Takeover Completed" thread

[TheLawMan 6,240]

a debt free rangers would be worth around 50mil in assets( rough guess)

our last 2-3 yrs financial yrs have shown us making profits.

if a business goes to a bank with these figures i think you would find the banks very willing to deal with you

aslong as your future business plan is sound and you arnt going to start running the club at a loss year

after year after year.

Rangers, and the other mob for that matter, will only make a profit through Champions League participation as things stand right now. As this is not in any shape or form guaranteed for us, no future business plan is going to look good. Add to that the previous 3 years of hardship and the previous years of adventurous spending and all of a sudden the risk rating doesnt look good for a bank.

Very few football clubs IN THE WORLD turnover profit after profit after profit. Its a bad gamble. And with the current banking crisis and terribly strict lending criteria, banks are no longer interested.

[JM1872 3,714]

a debt free rangers would be worth around 50mil in assets( rough guess)

our last 2-3 yrs financial yrs have shown us making profits.

if a business goes to a bank with these figures i think you would find the banks very willing to deal with you

aslong as your future business plan is sound and you arnt going to start running the club at a loss year

after year after year.

Bear in mind that UCL money being guaranteed will have helped our profits until next season, when the UCL money is no longer guaranteed regardless if we win the league or not

[TheLawMan 6,240]

If SDM could underwrite the debt, the banks wouldn't be breathing down our necks and we would have be a lot easier to deal with. When it comes to selling us over the last few years.

One thing we do agree with, the sooner he's gone the better.

DB - The banks only want us to get rid of the overdraft and for us to be paying our bills from our own cash. They will no longer allow us to go over that £15 million limit, hence all the cutbacks.

The bank have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the sale of the club. That is down to David Murray.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

krissg910, surely the last 4 years have shown we dont want an overdraft. Fuck being in debt again, its time to run our club accordingly and if that means our board have to be more clever about running our club rather than blowing a million here and a couple of million there on duds then so be it!

Living within our means is the only way to go.

[disgruntled_bear 157]

DB - The banks only want us to get rid of the overdraft and for us to be paying our bills from our own cash. They will no longer allow us to go over that £15 million limit, hence all the cutbacks.

The bank have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the sale of the club. That is down to David Murray.

Nobody is saying the banks are the reason, SDM is the reason.

SDM holds all the cards, but it was his financial problems that alerted the bank to our club in the first place. He's the reason why they're still at the club. His own financial troubles have a knock on effect to us as he is our major shareholder.

If he was financially sound, we wouldn't be in this mess.

[minnbear 30]

If Whyte doesn't buy us because he is potless, then that must mean that every Tom, Dick or Declan can do due diligence, so I'm coming over for a peek at the books. I will then post our exact financial status on here.... with crayons.

[krissg910 110]

Bear in mind that UCL money being guaranteed will have helped our profits until next season, when the UCL money is no longer guaranteed regardless if we win the league or not

the large majority of cl monies has went to paying debt, so without debt and without cl monies we will be pretty much even

add to this the 5million or so cw has said he will invest each season and the better prospect we would be to outside investment i think rangers could be run fairley well without cl money, but remember there is a good chance we will

get cl money atleast once every 2 seasons(maybe 3 at worst) then there is times when we will have runs of 3yrs in a row with cl money.

without debt rangers arnt as bad a business as ppl think if run correctly.

just think of the amount of interest we must be paying on our debts each yr, which will be about 3-4 million that could be used in a more productive way.

get rid of the debt, have a decent yet not bad wage bill, make sure we get top dollar for transfers out of the club and not letting players leave for free and we shouldnt be too far off the black each season

[Clemdog 39,389]

If Whyte doesn't buy us because he is potless, then that must mean that every Tom, Dick or Declan can do due diligence, so I'm coming over for a peek at the books. I will then post our exact financial status on here.... with crayons.

You won't need to if Whyte doesn't takeover. It'll be all over the press, not saying that the information will be valid though.

[kplfishtank 4,657]

Our total wage bill is circa £27 million. If Craig Whyte buys Rangers, pays off our debt and stick £32 million into our bank account, I will be very pleased.

I wouldnt hold your breath though.

i thought our wage bill was 16 million, where did you get 27 from ?

[TheLawMan 6,240]

They can choke us for now as we are in their debt, but when we do eventually clear the debt, it will be upto us how we run our club, not the bank.

The agreed repayment plan 2 years ago was £1m per year, meaning we would have been in the banks debt for over 30 years at that rate, now, the debt has had almost £13m slashed from it in 2 years, that is impressive, 6 times what was agreed, im not convinced that was the banks doing, it may well be that our board, or rather Mr Muir and Chairman AJ paid back alot more than we had to, with a view to clearing the debt quicker.

In spite of all these cuts and savings we have remained a decent side on the pitch, credit to Walter and the lads for that and their success has allowed the club to repay the debt much quicker.

I dont think our situation is as bad as some love to make out. Sure our wage bill is embarrassing low, but it needs to be for now, we seem to be doing ok in spite of any restraints.

I tend to laugh at the scaremongering, i suppose my attitude would be different if we were not so successful on the pitch.

Im sure we will be fine, as we always are!

Just to clarify on this, the £1m per year was only in relation to a £20 million long term loan. We still have that loan and we are still paing £1 million per year from it. Our situation was dire 2 years ago because we also owed creditors circa £10 million. These didnt even appear in our NET DEBT figure because they dont have to. Thankfully we have got rid of all them, leaving us in a much sounder financial position, but we still need CL money.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

i thought our wage bill was 16 million, where did you get 27 from ?

It is £16m and if no takeover takes place, will be cut according to Ally to £15m next season. Less than half of Celtics.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

i thought our wage bill was 16 million, where did you get 27 from ?

Its in our annual accounts.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/f6/56/0,,5~153334,00.pdf

Page 19

3. NET OPERATING EXPENSES

---------------------2010

--------------------(£'000)

Staff costs (Note 6) 28,133

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

Just to clarify on this, the £1m per year was only in relation to a £20 million long term loan. We still have that loan and we are still paing £1 million per year from it. Our situation was dire 2 years ago because we also owed creditors circa £10 million. These didnt even appear in our NET DEBT figure because they dont have to. Thankfully we have got rid of all them, leaving us in a much sounder financial position, but we still need CL money.

We dont need CL money, but of course it helps. We wont go out of business is we dont get into the C.L. it just makes getting out of the banks grip taht bit harder.

Our debt in relation to our turnover and club size is very small, God only knows why Lloyds are were being so hard on us, i suppose given the news the last few days we know now why.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

It is £16m and if no takeover takes place, will be cut according to Ally to £15m next season. Less than half of Celtics.

It isnt £16 million. Thats a myth.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/f6/56/0,,5~153334,00.pdf

Wages and salaries 23,667,000

Contributions to employee trusts 1,358,000

Social security costs 2,818,000

Defined contribution pension costs 290,000

Total 2010 staff cost 28,133,000

[RFC55 109,088]

see those wages thats 2 seasons ago is it not

[ken 3]

If, as quite a few on here say, we can only pay off our bank debt a 1 million a year + interest, what the hell other debts can we be paying off. , or is the 1 million + a year a lot of shite ?

If our debt has went from say 27 to 21 then surely something else is getting paid off (I know last year it was outstanding transfer monies).

Agreed! if as speculated our debt is now at 21 million where has all our income gone??? We paid of 8-9M of transfer fees last budget plus around 3M debt. So thats around 11-12m clear profit. Im quite sure that with this years CL money plus europa games and extra income from Scottish games against "them" we should have at very least made the same as last year. I was fully expecting our debt to now be less than 17m.

Please someone correct me if im wrong.

WATP

[krissg910 110]

krissg910, surely the last 4 years have shown we dont want an overdraft. Fuck being in debt again, its time to run our club accordingly and if that means our board have to be more clever about running our club rather than blowing a million here and a couple of million there on duds then so be it!

Living within our means is the only way to go.

i agree m8, i was only trying to say that i think many banks would jump at the chance of dealing with a debt free rangers.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

We dont need CL money, but of course it helps. We wont go out of business is we dont get into the C.L. it just makes getting out of the banks grip taht bit harder.

Our debt in relation to our turnover and club size is very small, God only knows why Lloyds are were being so hard on us, i suppose given the news the last few days we know now why.

We do need CL money.

Our turnover in 2010 was £56 million. £16 million of that was from the Champions League. See here http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/General/01/51/72/68/1517268_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Without CL money our turnover would have been £40 million. Our Expenditure was £43 million. In short we need CL money to break even.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

It isnt £16 million. Thats a myth.

http://www.rangers.co.uk/staticFiles/f6/56/0,,5~153334,00.pdf

Wages and salaries 23,667,000

Contributions to employee trusts 1,358,000

Social security costs 2,818,000

Defined contribution pension costs 290,000

Total 2010 staff cost 28,133,000

That £28m is staff costs, for all 250 odd staff members at Ibrox.

Our player wage bill is £16m, its been reported many times.

You can roughly work out our total wage bill going through the players and what they are on roughly, its nowhere near £28m.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,558]

96 pages of pure pish

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

We do need CL money.

Our turnover in 2010 was £56 million. £16 million of that was from the Champions League. See here http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/General/01/51/72/68/1517268_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Without CL money our turnover would have been £40 million. Our Expenditure was £43 million. In short we need CL money to break even.

So we dont get anything for playing in the Europa now?

We dont need the CL money at all. Sure it helps, but its not needed.

Our finances are improving year on year and some sort of Euro football is guaranteed every year

[TheLawMan 6,240]

see those wages thats 2 seasons ago is it not

Nope that is the year 1st July 2009 to 30th June 2010, ie last season. This seasons wages will be similar, in fact, i think they might have went up slightly.

This is the problem with so many rank rotten journalist who should stick to football and not finance. Actually they are crap at football writing as well. It just takes one journalist to write rubbish and one Gers fan to not check the facts, then they tell ten who tell ten and all of a sudden people are going around talking complete bollocks about our real situation.

[SirWalterSmithLegend 206]

How could our wage bill have went up? The bank have been enforcing cuts!

Thomson, Boyd, even Mendes was included in those accounts, Webster, Velicka and Miller along with a few others all went out.

We only brought in Jela, Beattie and Kerkar, Weiss, Diouf, Bartley and Foster are loans.

[RossS1873 1,668]

i cannot believe how long this is taking, if its even happening that is. i fear the worst for our financial future should this not happen

[TheLawMan 6,240]

That £28m is staff costs, for all 250 odd staff members at Ibrox.

Our player wage bill is £16m, its been reported many times.

You can roughly work out our total wage bill going through the players and what they are on roughly, its nowhere near £28m.

Its our total wage bill, no matter what way you cut it. As a club, we cant run without all the staff. Either way, if we want to pay all our wages and associated costs, then we need £28 million. That is an undisputable fact.