A look at the 3-4-3

[bluenose_72 198]

I thought the pitch looked fantastic for a division 3 side. Much better than Fir Park has had for decades. Peterhead's pitch will probably be one of the best kept surfaces this season, wait until its middle of December. Can't be using that as excuses

I think he said it was sticky or something like that. But I agree, it will be a nightmare come winter.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

What did we all think of the formation Ally used yesterday?

In theory it is a good formation and it's very underused especially in the UK. The only team I can think of that have used anything like it is Wigan. So although it is a good formation that can be hard to play against, I don't think McCoist deployed it right.

The two teams that I have regularly seen use it are Napoli and Udinese. Both have had success in the past couple of seasons with both teams qualifying for the Champions League.

They use the 3 central defenders, 2 wing backs (Napoli's Christian Maggio is one of the best in the world IMO), 2 defensive midfielders, then a variation of either a front 3 or 2 attacking midfielders and a striker.

The way we played yesterday, Broadfoot and Bocanegra were acting as full backs rather than central defenders and we seen how much problems we had defensively. They were too vulnerable and if Peterhead had more quality they would have punished us a lot more. Ian Black and Lewis MacLeod were also playing as central midfielders rather than defensive midfielders. This didn't help the defence when we were defending (quite often Winters and McAllister would be 2 v 3) and I think we needed at least 1 player to sit in front of the back 3. Even when we were attacking it was rare that either of the central midfielders would drop deep for the ball(we scored when MacLeod dropped deep to get on the ball). When you are playing out from the back and want to keep the ball on the deck you need to have midfielders willing to take the ball from the centre backs. Dorin Goian is dodgy enough as it is without forcing him to start the attacks all the time. We seen the long ball too often yesterday.

The other problem yesterday was that Lee Wallace and Andy Little were playing as wide midfielders rather than wing backs. If they were playing as wing backs that wouldn't have forced Broadfoot and Bocanegra to play as full backs and it would have also provided a bit more defensive cover. Andy Little isn't a wing back though. We seen yesterday that he was desperate to get into the box and try and score, which is fair enough because he is naturally a striker and that's where he should play. He and Wallace were also marked out the game by Sharp and Noble. With Peterhead playing 3 central defenders it allowed their wing backs to focus on stopping Little and Wallace(who was our best player v Brechin and East Fife).

Up front we needed to get McKay and Shiels closer to Jig. He was winning pretty much everything in the air and too often we couldn't make it stick. Peterhead had 3 central defenders and 3 defensive midfielders though so it's understandable since things got a bit crowded. But that is when we needed to use the wings, something we just didn't do enough.

I like the 3-4-3 formation and I loved watching Napoli use it in the Champions League last season, but McCoist needs to work on it a bit before using it again.

your last paragraph sums it up - but ally was hindered by no pre season prep and players still coming in- and it will take time to get used to it but surely the 3rd division is the time to do that?

[bluenose_72 198]

your last paragraph sums it up - but ally was hundred by no pre season prep and players still coming in- and it will take time to get used to it but surely the 3rd division is the time to do that?

No pre-season certainly hampered Ally getting his ideas across to the players and I agree that the 3rd Division is the best time to experiment. But it was just frustrating to see us struggle with that formation when we had the personnel(except for Little). A few tweaks here and there and I am sure this formation will be a success.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

4-4-2 or Rather 4-4-1-1 with Young Cole and Perry in there .We dont realy have the players to play 3 at the back IMO.

With this Team Ally needs to play to his strengths and stop tinkering .Thats what pre season games are for ,and we havent had preseason.

[donegal_ger 253]

The problem we had yesterday with the formation was that the players weren't disciplined enough to play it properly, you had Andy Little playing like he was one of the 3 strikers and leaving Broadfoot exposed all game and Lee Wallace was cutting inside all game and not holding his width, which inturn forces the back 3 to play too wide leaving slow players like Goian and Broadfoot exposed.

I would prefer it if we played a 3-5-2 system with Shiels as the trequartista, I also think McCulloch needs someone closer to him to benefit from his lay offs the 3 up top means the other 2 forwards are usually to far away to collect them.

I think the key to the three at the back system is that the 2 wingbacks keep their width and keep a balance between supporting the defence and the attack and yesterday they did neither they were too high up the park and didn't keep their width.

[bluenose_72 198]

The problem we had yesterday with the formation was that the players weren't disciplined enough to play it properly, you had Andy Little playing like he was one of the 3 strikers and leaving Broadfoot exposed all game and Lee Wallace was cutting inside all game and not holding his width, which inturn forces the back 3 to play too wide leaving slow players like Goian and Broadfoot exposed.

I would prefer it if we played a 3-5-2 system with Shiels as the trequartista, I also think McCulloch needs someone closer to him to benefit from his lay offs the 3 up top means the other 2 forwards are usually to far away to collect them.

I think the key to the three at the back system is that the 2 wingbacks keep their width and keep a balance between supporting the defence and the attack and yesterday they did neither they were too high up the park and didn't keep their width.

Spot on

[jamess 3,448]

A start of a season like no other.....Players coming in, players leaving and more to go, so not the time for trying anything new. For me we should be trying to be solid at the back to start with, and the quality up front should see at least a 1-0 or 2-0. Leave the experimenting for a few months when the squad is settled.

[fauldy72 15]

i like it 442 is easy to stifle but super is trying to find a formation that is going to open up the teams parking the bus and it doesnt get much more attacking than a 343.

id like to see us go like this

alexander

broadfoot edmilson goian

black hutton mcculloch wallace

little kyle shiels

i get pelters last week for saying we should drop jig back into midfield but i think it is were we would get the best out of jig. no many guys are playing up front at his age. plus him and blacky would smash fuck out of all these farmers and duds and i want to see super and charles sign someone else in right midfied so i could drop hutton and move back into the centre. i have big kyle in there because i just have a gut feeling the big chap is going to batter them in. sandaza is a great choice to come of the bench and young mckay can come in for shiels and little whenever we need him and id loved to have fitted him into my team but at the moment i think we need expereince. ive no got boca in because i think we all know he is offski.

[geronimoo 1,488]

I like the 4-4-2 for us but I like the 5-2-2-1 when I play FIFA.

[El Carpintero 546]

Any formation is made difficult when the players do not try a leg. Ally needs to boot baws and properly.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,770]

if we are going to play a 3-4-3 then we actually need the players to fit the system, if you try and slot guys in that dont play the position they are asked then the shape goes tits up

For what its worth i'd prefer a 3-5-2, with a sitting midfielder, 2 out and out strikers (kyle/mcculloch and sandaza probably the best options

Shiels and black in the midfield unless we want to play the young boys

[Shearer 124]

I hope we drop the formation as soon as possible, we got caught out so many times and seemed to lack any real width despite having two wing backs and two centre backs who tried to play as fullbacks.

For me we need 2 men up front because teams are going to play more defensively against us, so having Jig isolated up there on his own is playing into their hands.

In both away games we've managed to turn things around in a matter of minutes by playing with two strikers who are never any more than 10 yards apart. It means that teams can't crowd us out and we stand a good chance of winning any knock downs.

Id like to see us go 4-1-2-1-2 with a holding midfield player who can drift cover at the back if need be and let our full backs get up and support. Put Sheils behind the main two and let him show what he can do.

[HarryH 15]

Manchester City used it today and in the second half used 2 full backs in the back 3.

Im honest to admit that City are on a level we can only dream of right now.

I like the 343 and believe we should stick by it.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

We need a RB a Winger another CB and a RM for starters And 2-3 Utility guys who can fit in .

I do think Boca and Goinwill go IMO.

[donegal_ger 253]

if we are going to play a 3-4-3 then we actually need the players to fit the system, if you try and slot guys in that dont play the position they are asked then the shape goes tits up

For what its worth i'd prefer a 3-5-2, with a sitting midfielder, 2 out and out strikers (kyle/mcculloch and sandaza probably the best options

Shiels and black in the midfield unless we want to play the young boys

This is the way we played at the end of last season and it worked very well with McCabe in the holding role I think young McLeod is a very similar player to him and he could play there if we go back to this system, with Black and Shiels in front of him and someone from Sandaza, McKay or Little partnering McCulloch.

But we desperately need someone like Wallace for the right wingback role because Little for sure can't do it and we need some players with pace at the back because Broadfoot and Goian are not only slow on their feet but slow in the head too.

[The Beast 9,246]

What's the point of having a midfield at all if we're going to pump the ball long in every attack.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,770]

once august is finished we can then see whats best for the team, and so can ally obviously, the now its hard as he doesnt know who's coming or going

[donegal_ger 253]

What's the point of having a midfield at all if we're going to pump the ball long in every attack.

Thats the most frustrating thing about yesterdays match, McLeod was making great angles all game to recieve the ball off the defenders and almost every time they ignored him and punted it up the park, any time he had it he barely gave it away and even his long passes reached their target as shown for the first goal.

When McCoist took over from Smith he talked about playing a shorter passing game with higher tempo and more pressing but all he has done is copied Smiths percentage style football with less talanted players and therefore having less successful results.

[docspiderman 1,254]

Thats the most frustrating thing about yesterdays match, McLeod was making great angles all game to recieve the ball off the defenders and almost every time they ignored him and punted it up the park, any time he had it he barely gave it away and even his long passes reached their target as shown for the first goal.

When McCoist took over from Smith he talked about playing a shorter passing game with higher tempo and more pressing but all he has done is copied Smiths percentage style football with less talanted players and therefore having less successful results.

Agreed, I was getting so annoyed that when there was the clear chance to play a quick through ball it was ignored and the ball was passed back then out to Broadfoot to play the high long diagonal into the box which was obviously the main tactical instruction.

[Gerwelly 115]

We played 3-4-3 against Malmo and Maribor last season. Ally obviously wants to use it but can't seem to get it working.

[stevenray201 28]

Dont have the personel for this formation. 343 requires back 3 to have speed and broadfoot and goian dont have that. It also requires midfield to be

extremely disciplined and dont have that either. many of the guys seem to be playing out of position or just learning their teammates. Defence looked

a step slow. Midfield couldnt stop anything from going thru and had problems putting passes together unless they were going backwards.Didnt see Mcleod

do much at all. the forwards seemed no better. No combos like Tuesday and easily pushed off the ball.

[He's blue he's white 717]

Strength in numbers at the moment, 4-4-2

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

if we are going to play a 3-4-3 then we actually need the players to fit the system, if you try and slot guys in that dont play the position they are asked then the shape goes tits up

For what its worth i'd prefer a 3-5-2, with a sitting midfielder, 2 out and out strikers (kyle/mcculloch and sandaza probably the best options

Shiels and black in the midfield unless we want to play the young boys

Certainly with the 3 we had at the back a holding midfielder would have added just a bit more security - but it is early days, loads of personell chamnges and no pre-season so I am sure Ally will get formation, tactics, and attitudes right within the next month or so (and what better time to do so than in SFL3?)

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,770]

Certainly with the 3 we had at the back a holding midfielder would have added just a bit more security - but it is early days, loads of personell chamnges and no pre-season so I am sure Ally will get formation, tactics, and attitudes right within the next month or so (and what better time to do so than in SFL3?)

a holding midfielder also gives you the comfort of allowing either centre half to go out wide if the opponents go down either wing. Saves your wide midfielder being dragged back

[BrigBear 3]

My team played that for most of last season, some games it works, some it doesn't. all depends how the opposition line up, if they have good wide men its means your in for a hard shift, they play the long ball you should find it easier