Diamonds Are Forever

[VERITAS VOS LIBREBETS 3,321]

There is no refund a a available - I wish people would read the facts

Fair enough Swally but that is not really the point that I was making - it was more using 'that was the oldco' shite as a flag of convienience.

Would there be confidence in such a sale again? I don't think so, I can only see this story as 'bad press' at a time when we need all the positives we can get.

I still think it is a disgraceful way to treat those who made an investment in the club and I wonder if Charles Green would still be handing out cups of tea to those affected by it.

Sad to see the club act in this way - if indeed it was the club and not some salesman trying it on to bump up his commision.

[Creampuff 22,628]

I disagree with this.

Bond holders should be treated the same as every other investor in the Oldco. As shareholders bought shares in the club, bond holders had bonds.

It's shite, but no more shite than for the shareholders.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I disagree with this.

Bond holders should be treated the same as every other investor in the Oldco. As shareholders bought shares in the club, bond holders had bonds.

It's shite, but no more shite than for the shareholders.

Every other investor in Oldco was shat upon by oldco.

This issue with bond holders has a new person sitting on the throne....if you will pardon my pun.

[Creampuff 22,628]

Every other investor in Oldco was shat upon by oldco.

This issue with bond holders has a new person sitting on the throne....if you will pardon my pun.

Ahh, ne'er thought about it like that.

[AlBear. 8,499]

I'd rather lose my seat than have lost my club.

Yes I'll be disappointed if financial issues force me to give up the priveledge of having priority on my seat. The same seat I sat in 2 decades ago as a 6 year old boy to watch my team. The same seat my dad bought for me in the hope I would pass it to my son. But in the grand scheme of things it's nowhere near the worst thing in the world.

When the club came out, after transferring to the newco, and said that they would be honouring the debentures I was ecstatic. It's always filled me with immense pride to have MY very own seat at Ibrox saved for me. While I'm not happy the club have taken this stance now, I can accept it.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

The staff member is incorrect. Debentures went into the creditors total debt and were written off that way.

As I recall, debentures were not a season ticket for life, but a guarantee to buy one for that area. I believe that the club should honour that since it means no loss of money.

[JCDBigBear 10,825]

Another good piece D'Art - keep up[ the good work.

Whatever the outcome, the club should not use 'that was the oldco' shite.

Customer services should apologise and send the guy responsible for the comment on a 'training' course.

'We are the same club with history unbroken' when it comes to 'buy your season tickets now'

But - want a refund or otherwise? apparently 'that was the oldco' - utter shite and disappointing that our club has adopted tactics more akin to the east end.

As Swally says, there is no refund. It was an investment in the Club the same as shares. An interest free loan payable after 35 years at the earliest if at all. I didn't think it particularly good at the time and wrote to SDM about it, got nowhere with it. If you want to keep the seat then renew the ST. If the old bondholder doesn't renew then the seat can be sold to someone else. Suppose the other person renews every year for say 5 years with his son or pal next to him then the old bondholder decides to take up his seat again after a 5 year absence the new ST holder is shafted. It was a stupid idea in the first place.

I'm truly sympathetic to bondholders who made a commitment but so did 26,000 of shareholders. We were all shafted by Whyte. The new investors have to start again and regrettably that doesn't include renewing the bonds (or providing new shares) free of charge to previous holders.

People surely realise that the bonds can't be renewed. You have the seat for as long as you like if you renew the season ticket.

If you wish the Club to prosper you surely must realise that changes have to be made.

[Big Al 55 9,253]

Sad as it is you are no different from any other creditor or shareholder.

[sergio 1,199]

I don't understand the term seat for life, surely if you do not renew your ST, you cannot leave an empty seat that another bear might be in line to pay to sit in. That is just plain stupid, Gary can keep his seat as long as he retains his season book. Makes good business sense to me.

[gary2006 123]

I don't understand the term seat for life, surely if you do not renew your ST, you cannot leave an empty seat that another bear might be in line to pay to sit in. That is just plain stupid, Gary can keep his seat as long as he retains his season book. Makes good business sense to me.

sergio when you bought a bond seat back in 91 that meant the seat was yours,if you decided not go for a season the club could sell your seat for the season and the seat would revert back to the bond holder at the start of the new season,I don't think it makes good business sense to insult fans who invested their money into the club to help the club move forward,the most insulting part of this for me was the club using the old co newco stuff,that was just offensive and insulting,if the club had a good reason for making this decision whether that be a financial decision or something to do with laws regarding administration or liquidation I would have took it on the chin,but the newco old co stuff was a cop out

[sergio 1,199]

sergio when you bought a bond seat back in 91 that meant the seat was yours,if you decided not go for a season the club could sell your seat for the season and the seat would revert back to the bond holder at the start of the new season,I don't think it makes good business sense to insult fans who invested their money into the club to help the club move forward,the most insulting part of this for me was the club using the old co newco stuff,that was just offensive and insulting,if the club had a good reason for making this decision whether that be a financial decision or something to do with laws regarding administration or liquidation I would have took it on the chin,but the newco old co stuff was a cop out

Thanks for clearing it up Gary, I didn't understand the term, "seat for life " fair enough, if there is no loss of revenue to the club by allowing you first dibs on the seat, then it should be honoured, and I also agree that using the oldco as an excuse is pretty low.

[JCDBigBear 10,825]

sergio when you bought a bond seat back in 91 that meant the seat was yours,if you decided not go for a season the club could sell your seat for the season and the seat would revert back to the bond holder at the start of the new season,I don't think it makes good business sense to insult fans who invested their money into the club to help the club move forward,the most insulting part of this for me was the club using the old co newco stuff,that was just offensive and insulting,if the club had a good reason for making this decision whether that be a financial decision or something to do with laws regarding administration or liquidation I would have took it on the chin,but the newco old co stuff was a cop out

I gave you a good reason and I'll repeat it:

If the old bondholder doesn't renew then the seat can be sold to someone else. Suppose the other person renews every year for say 5 years with his son or pal next to him then the old bondholder decides to take up his seat again after a 5 year absence the new ST holder is shafted.

Another point; suppose you only renew every 2nd or 3rd year and your seat is the only free one in the area, many people take out a season ticket beside a friend or relative and they tend to want to go back to that seat every year. It will make the seat unattractive to others as a season ticket in which case RFC lose out financially.

As I also stated previously, the original idea was flawed.

[JCDBigBear 10,825]

Thanks for clearing it up Gary, I didn't understand the term, "seat for life " fair enough, if there is no loss of revenue to the club by allowing you first dibs on the seat, then it should be honoured, and I also agree that using the oldco as an excuse is pretty low.

The oldco / newco difference isn't an excuse, it's FACT as far as the business side is concerned.

[gary2006 123]

I gave you a good reason and I'll repeat it:

If the old bondholder doesn't renew then the seat can be sold to someone else. Suppose the other person renews every year for say 5 years with his son or pal next to him then the old bondholder decides to take up his seat again after a 5 year absence the new ST holder is shafted.

Another point; suppose you only renew every 2nd or 3rd year and your seat is the only free one in the area, many people take out a season ticket beside a friend or relative and they tend to want to go back to that seat every year. It will make the seat unattractive to others as a season ticket in which case RFC lose out financially.

As I also stated previously, the original idea was flawed.

you make very fair points,but to be honest I'm looking at this from a selfish and sentimental point of view,I enjoyed owning a seat ,and I wanted to pass on a seat in ibrox for life to my son.and I still maintain that if the club planned to take this coarse of action they should have had a better explanation than the one they gave .

[JCDBigBear 10,825]

you make very fair points,but to be honest I'm looking at this from a selfish and sentimental point of view,I enjoyed owning a seat ,and I wanted to pass on a seat in ibrox for life to my son.and I still maintain that if the club planned to take this coarse of action they should have had a better explanation than the one they gave .

I had shares that I expected to have for life as well but after the financial collapse I had to buy more at the IPO.

None of us like losing out but you simply have to be pragmatic about the situation.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

I had shares that I expected to have for life as well but after the financial collapse I had to buy more at the IPO.

None of us like losing out but you simply have to be pragmatic about the situation.

The kneejerk reaction, blogs and Twitter hysteria in response to this have been unhelpful.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

The kneejerk reaction, blogs and Twitter hysteria in response to this have been unhelpful.

That of course is a matter of opinion.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

That of course is a matter of opinion.

Yeah - mine

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Yeah - mine

Aye but who's agenda are you pushing - Casey Jones ? ;-)

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Aye but who's agenda are you pushing - Casey Jones ? ;-)

Rangers fan ma arse

[jake2006 7]

It was a good idea at the time of waiting lists etc

Some fans will remember the early Souness years a lot of fans were frozen out cos of so called fat cats