Will Winning The Scottish Cup Change Your Mind

[simplythebest 11,453]

As someone very keen for us to change the management I think McCoist would absolutely earn the right to stay on for next season if he won the Scottish Cup. Wouldn't just cancel out all the doubts and previous failures however.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

No-one has claimed it would. What it would/should do is start to change peoples minds - especially those who are adamant that he's 'never a manager'.

Can you expand a wee bit on start to change minds?

I think it buys him more time to prove himself and make people more open minded is a better way to look at it

[martin93 136]

Still think he should go at the end of the season no matter what. If it was any other manager they would have been long gone, they wouldn't be as lucky as Ally is in terms of even being given the opportunity to win the Scottish Cup this season, they would have been shown the door long ago.

Also, you don't need to be a good manager to win the Scottish Cup, luck of the draw and all that, it's a cup competition, anything can happen in one off games.

End of the day, we have the 2nd highest wage bill in Scotland, we SHOULD be winning the scottish cup now that celtic are out.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Still think he should go at the end of the season no matter what. If it was any other manager they would have been long gone, they wouldn't be as lucky as Ally is in terms of even being given the opportunity to win the Scottish Cup this season, they would have been shown the door long ago.

Also, you don't need to be a good manager to win the Scottish Cup, luck of the draw and all that.

End of the day, we have the 2nd highest wage bill in Scotland, we SHOULD be winning the scottish cup now that celtic are out.

Lot of truth in there too tbh

[martin93 136]

Lot of truth in there too tbh

I love Ally as a person, there is no doubting his love and passion for the club, and he is trying his best of course. But unfortunately, and it's not his fault as he is putting everything into it, i just don't think he has what it takes to be a proper successful Rangers manager when we get back to the top flight, through his results against proper opposition, the performances and also his tactics/signings. I wish he could turn it around , i'd love Ally to be a success just as much as anyone, but sadly i can't see it.

I wouldn't sack him though, i just hope that when the time comes, he will see it right to step down and let someone else take over the reigns, someone with the tactical nous and man management skills and all round ability to guide us to getting back to the top of Scottish football, to properly challenge and then overtake celtic as being the best football team in the country, where we rightfully belong.

Ally is and always will be a Rangers legend though, and IMO should be offered a position at the club for life, as some sort of ambassador or whatever it may be, he more than deserves that.

But back to the Scottish Cup, if we get to the semis we will have got there without having to play a single Scottish Premiership side, so it won't exactly have been a difficult path. Then in the semi we will effectively be at home so that will be an advantage for the team. So aye, as fantastic as it would be, I certainly don't think winning the Scottish cup this season would prove Ally to be a good manager, given the circumstances of who we would need to play to win it. And like i said, cup shocks happen all the time in football (not that i think winning the scottish cup would be a shock), anything can happen in one off cup games. And the bookies have us as 2nd favourites to win it, and rightly so, so therefore with the position we are in, we should expect to have a good chance of winning it. At the start of the season, of course to think Rangers could win the scottish cup would be a massive achievement, no one was even thinking that we had any real chance of winning it, but in reality,the way things have worked out (and thankfully so), we are effectively in the semis at Ibrox without having to play any of the top flight teams.

Edit Just to clarify, if we win the Scottish cup then of course Ally would deserve plaudits and praise for doing so, but as i said, i just don't think it would suddenly prove him to be a good manager, or any better than he is just now. The task shouldn't be that difficult for the current Rangers side.

People could argue that it would prove that he has the bottle and has what it takes to win big games under pressure, but i wouldn't agree with that either, see Maribor, Malmo, Falkirk from a couple of seasons ago etc. To be able to say he has what it takes to win big games, i think that would need to be proven over a longer period of time than just a scottish cup win this season, given results in the past as ive stated. IMO though i don't think he can prove it over a longer period of time, and unfortunately so. I think he has had long enough tbh, and a lot longer than any other manager would have got in his position.

However i dont mean to sound negative, and it goes without saying that of course winning the Scottish cup can and would only be a good, positive thing for Ally's managerial credentials. Personally though i just don't think it would be enough and wouldn't make up for his managerial shortcomings which have been proven since he became the manager, where we are in a position to properly assess him as a manager, and not in a cup run like the one we are currently in.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Still think he should go at the end of the season no matter what. If it was any other manager they would have been long gone, they wouldn't be as lucky as Ally is in terms of even being given the opportunity to win the Scottish Cup this season, they would have been shown the door long ago.

Also, you don't need to be a good manager to win the Scottish Cup, luck of the draw and all that, it's a cup competition, anything can happen in one off games.

End of the day, we have the 2nd highest wage bill in Scotland, we SHOULD be winning the scottish cup now that celtic are out.

On the one had you say that anything can happen in one-off games but on the other hand you say that we should be winning it because we have a higher wage bill than all the teams left in it. If anything can happen in one-off cup games then why should our wage bill have any bearing at all?

Anyway, I really don't see why people are so keen to try and belittle what would be a wonderful achievement. Leave that to bitter Rangers haters.

[martin93 136]

On the one had you say that anything can happen in one-off games but on the other hand you say that we should be winning it because we have a higher wage bill than all the teams left in it. If anything can happen in one-off cup games then why should our wage bill have any bearing at all?

Anyway, I really don't see why people are so keen to try and belittle what would be a wonderful achievement. Leave that to bitter Rangers haters.

Well personally i don't think we need luck or for anything to happen in our favour in a one off game, i think the team we have should be good enough to win it without any of that.

Im just going on the logic of some people who say it would prove Ally to be a good manager, that's what i mean when i say anything can happen in one off games. When Morton beat celtic did that prove the morton manager to be a great manager? No it didn't ofc. So i don't get how for Ally to win the scottish cup this season, i don't get how that would suddenly make him a good manager? When the strongest team we would have to beat is Aberdeen? Morton beating celtic is a greater achievement than Rangers beating Aberdeen, but when Morton beat celtic i don't remember loads of people saying how good a manager they had. Infact Morton are the perfect example of this, their manager got sacked just a couple of months after beating celtic after terrible results. So that proves my point.

Think about it though, we beat Motherwell last season in the cup. To win the scottish cup we really don't need to do much better than that, if anything better. You could argue that beating Motherwell last season was as big an 'achievement' as it would be to beat Aberdeen this season (if that is what happens). Not that i think it's some massive achievement though.

I'm not trying to belittle anything, just trying to state how i dont think that even if we win the scottish cup, i dont think that sudddenly makes Ally a good manager, which is what this thread is about really.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Well personally i don't think we need luck or for anything to happen in our favour in a one off game, i think the team we have should be good enough to win it without any of that.

Im just going on the logic of some people who say it would prove Ally to be a good manager, that's what i mean when i say anything can happen in one off games. When Morton beat celtic did that prove the morton manager to be a great manager? No it didn't ofc. So i don't get how for Ally to win the scottish cup this season, i don't get how that would suddenly make him a good manager? When the strongest team we would have to beat is Aberdeen? Morton beating celtic is a greater achievement than Rangers beating Aberdeen, but when Morton beat celtic i don't remember loads of people saying how good a manager they had. Infact Morton are the perfect example of this, their manager got sacked just a couple of months after beating celtic after terrible results. So that proves my point.

Think about it though, we beat Motherwell last season in the cup. To win the scottish cup we really don't need to do much better than that, if anything better. You could argue that beating Motherwell last season was as big an 'achievement' as it would be to beat Aberdeen this season (if that is what happens). Not that i think it's some massive achievement though.

I'm not trying to belittle anything, just trying to state how i dont think that even if we win the scottish cup, i dont think that sudddenly makes Ally a good manager, which is what this thread is about really.

If we win the cup this year it will make him a better manager than some of our own support think he is. I think people who dispute that don't seem to realise how far we've fallen - think about it, Celtic are out of the tournament and we're still not favourites. It's not as simple as only beating Aberdeen if that's what it comes down to, we're really are not in a position to think like that anymore - regardless of the size of our wage bill.

If we win the cup from the 3rd tier 18 months after the squad was decimated, shunted down 3 divisions and slapped with a transfer embargo then I think people need to actually take a step back and acknowledge how far we've come under McCoist in such a short space of time.

As for who we've played to get this far - what does that matter? If we win the cup then it'll be because we were the best team in the tournament - the fact that the so-called decent teams couldn't stay alive in the tournament long enough to challenge that really shouldn't be our concern.

I find it bizarre that I have to argue with Rangers fans about what an achievement it would be to win the cup this year - some people seem so entrenched in their opinion that Ally is never a manager that they're even echoing bitter Rangers haters who never give us credit for anything, ever.

[allgers 735]

There is always achievement in winning any cup, have a look at the teams that are still in it, have a look at the teams they put out, there isn't a world of differance. There is still a long way to go at least four and a half hours of football, yes this is an achievement.

[wullyRFC 5,230]

Never mind...

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

He's holding us back - he should walk now.

[Guest]

Ive supported Ally, ive had fall outs with people for wanting him out, im backing the manager.....but drastic improvement is required next season. I watched last weeks game in my local with a few lads who arent bears and frankly I was embarrassed.

[laudrupno1 3,932]

.

[normancarson 18]

While he is the Rangers manager he should be supported. This is not to say he shouldn't be criticised, however. I would be happy to see him get an offer from TV that was too good to turn down. Everyone's a winner

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

While he is the Rangers manager he should be supported. This is not to say he shouldn't be criticised, however. I would be happy to see him get an offer from TV that was too good to turn down. Everyone's a winner

Agreed - his level was TV

[Gaffbear 4,096]

I've always been of the opinion that Ally isn't an idiot and if he feels he can't take us forward he'll go. .Being a bear he wants what we want. .

I personally have never rated Ally as a great tactician or coach but he's done everything asked of him and deserves his chance.

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

If he wins the cup he should still go. With ra sellick getting put out the cup we have been lucky this year.

[bump 168]

ally wants the best for our club and everyone who wants him to move on should hold there head in shame,no matter if we do well in SC or not our manager should be given full support from the fans,getting totally pissed off with the fans that want him to leave.

fucking grow a pair

[ZZed 4,510]

He should stay as Rangers manager and run for the next leader of the UN as most have funny names like Ja Ja Binks and stuff; and look at the trouble we had. A good Scottish name as the leader of the UN and everything will settle down.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

but he's done everything asked of him and deserves his chance.

Disagree and he's had his chance 3 years worth albeit in some of our darkest times

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

ally wants the best for our club and everyone who wants him to move on should hold there head in shame,no matter if we do well in SC or not our manager should be given full support from the fans,getting totally pissed off with the fans that want him to leave.

fucking grow a pair

Hold their head in shame

[simplythebest 11,453]

ally wants the best for our club and everyone who wants him to move on should hold there head in shame,no matter if we do well in SC or not our manager should be given full support from the fans,getting totally pissed off with the fans that want him to leave.

fucking grow a pair

His football's so bad the pub in Fife was filled with fans that couldn't be bothered going to the game or left really early.

But aye, how dare anyone want him to leave!

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

I've backed Ally last season and most of this but am starting to get fed-up and this is from someone who trudged along to Ibrox to watch some amount of pish in the late 70's.

Last season we played in the worst division in one of the worst leagues in Europe yet we won only 25 out 36 matches. If my math is correct that's 70% success rate. Our other games were drawn (8) and losses (3).

To date this season we have played 27 and won 25 with 2 draws. In these 27 matches we have scored 84 times and conceded only 14 goals.

Big improvement? It would appear so.

Sadly the statistics do not paint the whole picture. Despite having a squad of over 30 players to choose from our performances have not improved. Players are constantly asked to play out of position while others, who could fill the role, cool their heels on the bench. Our play seems void of tactics.

I was hoping that by this time in our long road home that we would have a more settled team, that we would have seen some youngsters emerge and that most of all we would be entering next season's Championship with confidence. TBH I see us as no further forward than we were 63 long boring games ago.

This season there is still a big trophy up for grabs however I see winning the cup as a bit of a double-edged sword for Ally. On the one hand if he captures the trophy it will be a major scalp and will most likely see him keep his job. It would also mean that we would have won the second biggest prize in Scottish football. This works against Ally because any claims that a team which won the Scottish Cup could not win the championship would have no credibility. Bang goes the idea of spending millions to buy a new squad.

Personally I'd have taken an consistent improvement on the park over the last 63 games over winning the cup. The fact we have not improved is down to our coaches and our manager.

Many will ask who would replace Ally well for the money we pay our manager we could have any manager from the Englissh championship.

In the Championship, basic salaries range from £95,000 to £450,000 per year, with a "typical" mid-range salary of £200,000 plus bonuses. In League One, the spread is £55,000 to £200,000, with the mid-range salary at £80,000 plus bonuses

[rangersmandownunder 132]

I've backed Ally last season and most of this but am starting to get fed-up and this is from someone who trudged along to Ibrox to watch some amount of pish in the late 70's.

Last season we played in the worst division in one of the worst leagues in Europe yet we won only 25 out 36 matches. If my math is correct that's 70% success rate. Our other games were drawn (8) and losses (3).

To date this season we have played 27 and won 25 with 2 draws. In these 27 matches we have scored 84 times and conceded only 14 goals.

Big improvement? It would appear so.

Sadly the statistics do not paint the whole picture. Despite having a squad of over 30 players to choose from our performances have not improved. Players are constantly asked to play out of position while others, who could fill the role, cool their heels on the bench. Our play seems void of tactics.

I was hoping that by this time in our long road home that we would have a more settled team, that we would have seen some youngsters emerge and that most of all we would be entering next season's Championship with confidence. TBH I see us as no further forward than we were 63 long boring games ago.

This season there is still a big trophy up for grabs however I see winning the cup as a bit of a double-edged sword for Ally. On the one hand if he captures the trophy it will be a major scalp and will most likely see him keep his job. It would also mean that we would have won the second biggest prize in Scottish football. This works against Ally because any claims that a team which won the Scottish Cup could not win the championship would have no credibility. Bang goes the idea of spending millions to buy a new squad.

Personally I'd have taken an consistent improvement on the park over the last 63 games over winning the cup. The fact we have not improved is down to our coaches and our manager.

Many will ask who would replace Ally well for the money we pay our manager we could have any manager from the Englissh championship.

In the Championship, basic salaries range from £95,000 to £450,000 per year, with a "typical" mid-range salary of £200,000 plus bonuses. In League One, the spread is £55,000 to £200,000, with the mid-range salary at £80,000 plus bonuses

I agree with most you wrote there mate, except I don't think he has 30 players to choose from. We have improved as the results prove, but our performances of late are not a lot better from last season, could be motivation could be attitude, but it is the managers job to correct both, it pains me to criticize oor Ally but I really do have grave concerns that he is the man to lead us forward, however if I am wrong I will gladly eat a large slice of that humble pie.

[AllyDawson72 213]

I've backed Ally last season and most of this but am starting to get fed-up and this is from someone who trudged along to Ibrox to watch some amount of pish in the late 70's.

Last season we played in the worst division in one of the worst leagues in Europe yet we won only 25 out 36 matches. If my math is correct that's 70% success rate. Our other games were drawn (8) and losses (3).

To date this season we have played 27 and won 25 with 2 draws. In these 27 matches we have scored 84 times and conceded only 14 goals.

Big improvement? It would appear so.

Sadly the statistics do not paint the whole picture. Despite having a squad of over 30 players to choose from our performances have not improved. Players are constantly asked to play out of position while others, who could fill the role, cool their heels on the bench. Our play seems void of tactics.

I was hoping that by this time in our long road home that we would have a more settled team, that we would have seen some youngsters emerge and that most of all we would be entering next season's Championship with confidence. TBH I see us as no further forward than we were 63 long boring games ago.

This season there is still a big trophy up for grabs however I see winning the cup as a bit of a double-edged sword for Ally. On the one hand if he captures the trophy it will be a major scalp and will most likely see him keep his job. It would also mean that we would have won the second biggest prize in Scottish football. This works against Ally because any claims that a team which won the Scottish Cup could not win the championship would have no credibility. Bang goes the idea of spending millions to buy a new squad.

Personally I'd have taken an consistent improvement on the park over the last 63 games over winning the cup. The fact we have not improved is down to our coaches and our manager.

Many will ask who would replace Ally well for the money we pay our manager we could have any manager from the Englissh championship.

In the Championship, basic salaries range from £95,000 to £450,000 per year, with a "typical" mid-range salary of £200,000 plus bonuses. In League One, the spread is £55,000 to £200,000, with the mid-range salary at £80,000 plus bonuses

Amazing stat on the wages from the English championship.

I've always felt we would be better of with a manager with a good knowledge of that league, especially having an eye for good players out of contract instead of Ally targeting the pish in the SPL.