Does our loan system work either? ... related to U20's/development league

[K.A.I 36,183]

Been thinking about this a lot past few days. Does our loan system work either?

Totally get what Warburton's saying about rather having players out on loan getting first team games and competitive experience but who's actually went out on loan and came back and made an impact on the team or improved as a player? Adam and McGregor are literally the only two that spring to mind.

I always see people saying the same thing the minute a loan deal is announced for one of our players "good move for him" and "will benefit the club" ... but does it?

You could maybe argue McKay too, I suppose, but IMO that's more Warburton's development than anything else. Last week I'm sure he was hinting that he didn't enjoy playing at the likes of Raith and Morton.

I do think that a lot of the teams the guys are out at is probably their level - guys like Crawford and Gasporotto will never make the cut at Rangers and tbh I know they are held in high regard on here but I don't think Murdoch and Walsh will either.

I could be wrong but Jordon Thompson and Ryan Hardie have looked pretty fed-up in the unders games I've seen recently - I don't think they will enjoy it at Airdrie and Raith ... I don't think they are good enough teams for them, either - personally, in an ideal world, I'd rather keep them at Ibrox and have Warburton develop them more every day in training and give them 30 minutes here and there in games we are 3-0 up in. I think they would learn more that way. Thompson especially left the same level and set-up at Man United to come here and he's basically no closer to first team football. He could have been doing all this back in Manchester for United.

I agree with Warburton that European competition for the guys at that level would be the most beneficial. Would be great to get something like that set up

[Bears 794]

It's rare that a player will return from a loan a different player. It's not like switching on a light usually. But ask someone like McKay in a few years what he got out of his loans out and he'll at least answer that he realised how utterly privileged he is to play for Rangers. And perhaps he'll pinpoint a few experiences or lessons learnt. It's all part of the development of many a player. Very few cement a regular place in their teens and the experience of being elsewhere will develop practically any player.

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, Bears said:

It's rare that a player will return from a loan a different player. It's not like switching on a light usually. But ask someone like McKay in a few years what he got out of his loans out and he'll at least answer that he realised how utterly privileged he is to play for Rangers. And perhaps he'll pinpoint a few experiences or lessons learnt. It's all part of the development of many a player. Very few cement a regular place in their teens and the experience of being elsewhere will develop practically any player.

But how many of these loans have ever benfitted us?

[Bears 794]

How many youth players evver make the grade?

You can only expect the few to make it but that doesn't stop you from trying. If you stop trying, you won't get any.

The alternative is to buy from clubs that ... developed young players, sometimes by loaning them out.

[pcbear 10,924]

Loan or no loan, if you are good enough you will make it, as above its not a magic fix but may focus a lazy player after realising how the other half live

[Misteral 2,932]

The past is the past in this respect. Our loan system and everything attached to it probably works differently now than before. MW clearly thinks it's a better alternative to the U20s atm, (and who am I to argue) but only time will tell. I'm hopeful with the number of players on loan and the fact that the even younger kids get to play against U20s it will  benefit us tremendously over the next season or so.

 

[BEE 4,880]

I blame the gaffers we've had to be honest - even when a player is amazing on loan we rarely give them a chance. Even going back to Steven MacLean at Scunthorpe. If they're not good enough then punt them.

[K.A.I 36,183]

5 minutes ago, Bears said:

How many youth players evver make the grade?

You can only expect the few to make it but that doesn't stop you from trying. If you stop trying, you won't get any.

The alternative is to buy from clubs that ... developed young players, sometimes by loaning them out.

Again, I appreciate that but only 2 from how many? I'm just asking if there's a better way it can be done.

[6superbarry6 14,266]

how about setting up a feeder club we could loan players to preferrably one that plays the ball on the deck  and a similar formation to ourselves this would give the youngsters experience of playing together and playing a similar style of football while getting competitive football under their belts aswell

[BEE 4,880]

Just now, 6superbarry6 said:

how about setting up a feeder club we could loan players to preferrably one that plays the ball on the deck  and a similar formation to ourselves this would give the youngsters experience of playing together and playing a similar style of football while getting competitive football under their belts aswell

They're called Hearts.

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 minutes ago, 6superbarry6 said:

how about setting up a feeder club we could loan players to preferrably one that plays the ball on the deck  and a similar formation to ourselves this would give the youngsters experience of playing together and playing a similar style of football while getting competitive football under their belts aswell

Ambitious but good idea. Something like that could work well,

[bluenoz 31,311]

We haven't had a high percentage of success in recent years. It does make you wonder if its working.

[Inigo 32,697]

II think i's an impossible question to answer in that sense. Would Hutton have been better or worse if he'd been on loan? Would he have developed quicker? Would Burke have been better? Was Adam better for having been on loan? we can guess, but they might have gotten to the level they got to regardless.

I don't think you can really answer any of those questions for sure. All I think you can say is that it seems a logical idea to get them competitive games against decent standard players. Teams all over the place seem to think so.

[RFCRobertson 11,792]

Think giving them out on loan will benefit them in the long run. It'll also let them see how good the facilities they have actually are as well as the pitch. More importantly it'll allow them to actually get game time, and more game time then what they would have at Rangers. At the same time, if they are doing good enough, they should get first team action. Preferably when we are about 1 nil up. 

I say that because if we bring them on when we're in the lead comfortably then they won't really get the same intensity or feel for a game. Look at it this way, imagine a painter making a great piece of art and then giving it too you just to sign it. It wouldn't really feel like you've contributed that much? Where as if the Artist at least does some line work, he can bring in the new boy too do some painting. Something that he will actually learn from and feel pressure from. 

We don't want to the boys getting a skewed idea of what a match is like. That's what would happen if we brought them on in the final 30 minutes while we're 5-0 up. Bringing them on when we are 1-0 up will let them contribute something and allow their true skill to be judged.

or they can get loaned out and still get that same idea. It'll let them feel like they are a cog in the machine. 

In terms of effectiveness, that remains to be seen. The lads out for 3-6 weeks, I think they're just being reminded about how good the facilities are. The lads out for longer and the ones that require game time and will likely come back and see some action when we are 1-0 up. 

 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Will the very few exceptions Europe wide there is not club with mainly home grown developed talent - the fall of rate from youth to regular first team is immense - and is the same in many sports . I was listening to the head of the EFA youth set up on the radio last week and they are now streaming based on physical maturity not age and according to him most of the players who make it are late developers not early developers but that really it's all about the individual and not systems. 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

A loan can do various things for a player. If they are at a big club, then it can help a player's perspective to spend time at a smaller club. The experience of a real game experience in a first team can also be crucial to a player's learning. I don't think there is evidence that it guarantees success, but I think if the player has the right attitude then it can be valuable for him to go on loan.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

10 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Will the very few exceptions Europe wide there is not club with mainly home grown developed talent - the fall of rate from youth to regular first team is immense - and is the same in many sports . I was listening to the head of the EFA youth set up on the radio last week and they are now streaming based on physical maturity not age and according to him most of the players who make it are late developers not early developers but that really it's all about the individual and not systems. 

I'd say there is evidence to back that up; with increased levels on players fitness levels it might be something more apparent in seasons to come.

[Bears 794]

2 hours ago, K.A.I said:

Again, I appreciate that but only 2 from how many? I'm just asking if there's a better way it can be done.

Would that be 2 from previous management structures and philosophies or 2 from MW's current and very different system?

You're comparing apples and oranges, I reckon.

As MW has brought a certain pedigree as well as a whole rebuilding of the youth system, I'll happily trust him for now.

[K.A.I 36,183]

21 minutes ago, Bears said:

Would that be 2 from previous management structures and philosophies or 2 from MW's current and very different system?

You're comparing apples and oranges, I reckon.

As MW has brought a certain pedigree as well as a whole rebuilding of the youth system, I'll happily trust him for now.

It doesn't really matter who our manager is - it's about the set up, the teams the players go on loan to - the whole idea of it.

It's not a matter of not trusting Warburton. Don't know why your reading that into it.

[MasterD 7,446]

Up to this point no.

 

A few of the older 1s we have out on loan are past their time here and are more or less biding their time until their contracts run out or we come to an agreement.

 

We'll need to see in a year or 2 if it's worked for the younger 1s under probably a different process to the past loans.

 

I like the idea of players going out on loan but I'm not convinced going to part-time teams is of a great benefit.

[hammer93 15,137]

Years ago if a player went out on loan that generally signalled the end of their Rangers careers.

The loan system has changed somewhat that nowadays we send a lot  more younger players out on loan to supposedly gain first team experience,  I think it's fair to assume that the lads who come back and get moved back out will most likely be looking for new clubs in the future , from that aspect the only thing we gain is that we don't waste much more time on their development if they can't make the grade down a league or 2.

This is not a criticism of MW but he did claim he wanted young players to have a route to the 1st team, for me he has hardly used any of our youth with the exception of Mckay.

I get the impression that by putting these boys out on loan that MW may already of deemed the majority not good enough. 

 

[Ozblue 4,332]

It's a complex problem for many clubs with talented youngsters who have different levels of football "maturity" and ability that will affect their progress. I actually agree with the OP regarding Jordan Thompson, as I would have preferred he had gone to a club in our division or a higher League if possible,but I suppose he will at least get game time with Airdrie.

For me, the best way to improve the progress of youngsters is to let the bigger clubs enter a squad of U'21's in the bottom league and see how they react, but I know that's unlikely to happen in the Scottish game. Unless players out on loan are actually getting game time at their adopted club then it's a waste of time.

[Dubaijim 44]

While the numbers who have gone on loan and came back as better players are low, we have also to look at how few players we have actually developed by being nurtured through purely our own system - long time since anybody came through and reached the very top so trying the loan route is a reasonable shout. MW knows more about youth development than just about anyone involved in Scottish football and I am happy to trust his judgment in this respect.

[Briton 394]

13 hours ago, 6superbarry6 said:

how about setting up a feeder club we could loan players to preferrably one that plays the ball on the deck  and a similar formation to ourselves this would give the youngsters experience of playing together and playing a similar style of football while getting competitive football under their belts aswell

You mean like we are doing for Arsenal?

[TMB 14,167]

James Forrest was a Rangers youth player and we've allowed him to develop at Celtic over the last few years.  Looks like he's going to come back now and join the Warburton revolution.  Similar story with Shinnie and Hemmings.