12 Angry Men

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 minutes ago, BLUEDIGNITY said:

One day Pedro will be in the hall of fame!

Aye the Celtic hall of fame with that wee video playing underneath every time everyone walks past it like you get in a museum of him wishing his Celtic brothers all the best. 

Right next to framed portraits on Warburton, Whyte, Easedales, Barton, Leech, Lambias, King, Robertson, Murray etc

[STEPPS BOY 75,163]

I'll save my rant for the first of September..

All i will say is that of we dont sign at least 3 players in next week questions must be asked.

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,749]

21 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Aye the Celtic hall of fame 

You stole my punchline, respect !

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Quote

I think the time for King deciding will be once the first half of the season is done and  2 OF games concluded.

@Reformation Bear - Id certainly settle for that timescale RB

[Bears r us 31,000]

The thing that will determine how long Pedro is our manager is results.

Because of the hellish start to this season since the EUROPA disaster he has been under pressure every game and while I can agree with points from the 'sack him now' and 'give him time' sides it is wins he needs. This Sunday will not be easy but if he gets 3 points then he will have a little longer, 1 or 0 points and this type of thread will be ramped up once again, and so it will go on. I know I have just typed good old common sense but that is where we are. 

The board will have to act at some point if results do not improve whether they want to or not, because going into an AGM with the prospect of another fight for 3rd place will see the heat turning onto themselves and that will be when they will look at self survival. I just wish someone with serious cash could clear them out and give us a chance to compete again.

So it is simples, win games and the experiment continues, lose or draw a few more and Pedro will not last long IMO.

[Ibroxholm 2,291]

2 hours ago, K.A.I said:

So your justification for keeping him in a job is the fact that it will take a few weeks to get someone else in, it looks bad and because of how it dragged on previously? 

This type of opinion is absolutely parallel to how as a support we don't crave success anymore - we've given up the ghost of being successful all in the name of what might be more convenient 

im not surprised though as it's Groundhog Day - was the same lines of defence trotted out when McCoist and Warburton were managers too but it's not any less depressing 

No, my key justification for keeping him in the job is that we need to give him (or any manager) a reasonable length of time to bring in his own players, allow them to settle, and get them to play the way he wants them to play.  Even then, it's likely to be an ongoing process to get us back to the top.  The 4-5 games given to Pedro so far is not sufficient to make any type of definitive judgement imo.

I crave success for the present team in the same way as I craved success through the long barren years in the late 60s and the 80s, nothing has changed and I'm sure that goes for most of our support.  It's just that some of us realise that turning things round, no matter how much we want it, doesnt happen instantly and a bit of patience is usually required to let things develop.  Maybe it is Groundhog Day as you say but it is the only sensible way forward.  Sacking managers after 3-4 months in the job, chasing success, does not work, there are plenty of examples of this from history.

Maybe, time will show Pedro is not the answer and he will go the same way as McCoist and Warburton.  However, you and I don't know that on the evidence of only 4-5 games (or even 3-4 months if you want to include the tail end of last season).  

 

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

No, my key justification for keeping him in the job is that we need to give him (or any manager) a reasonable length of time to bring in his own players, allow them to settle, and get them to play the way he wants them to play.  Even then, it's likely to be an ongoing process to get us back to the top.  The 4-5 games given to Pedro so far is not sufficient to make any type of definitive judgement imo.

I crave success for the present team in the same way as I craved success through the long barren years in the late 60s and the 80s, nothing has changed and I'm sure that goes for most of our support.  It's just that some of us realise that turning things round, no matter how much we want it, doesnt happen instantly and a bit of patience is usually required to let things develop.  Maybe it is Groundhog Day as you say but it is the only sensible way forward.  Sacking managers after 3-4 months in the job, chasing success, does not work, there are plenty of examples of this from history.

Maybe, time will show Pedro is not the answer and he will go the same way as McCoist and Warburton.  However, you and I don't know that on the evidence of only 4-5 games (or even 3-4 months if you want to include the tail end of last season).  

 

I hear you and take all that on board but I just think that screams out trying to buy time. If he's that bad after 5-months or so, what more depths can we sink to?

You've obviously got a bit more faith than me, but I say why wait? especially when there's still time to salvage the season.

[gj923 1,457]

4 hours ago, Brackley Bluenose said:

Out of interest, what makes the Qatari or Mexican league inferior to the Scottish Prem? Our league is horrific, to put it mildly. The ship with Scottish football has sailed. The day we join any other league will be the happiest day of my life. Players leave Scottish clubs to join conference/league 2, and only in the odd exception higher up the ladder. 

The average attendance in the Qatari league is 672 with the majority of the teams controlled by the ruling family of Qatar. Considering the actual population of the country is about 300k with the rest made up of migrant workers it is never going to be a very successful league. The mexican league whilst ranked higher has a strange competition set up meaning unusual winners and the turnover of managers at a lot of clubs averages at least 1 a year in the last 10-15 years.

[Virtuoso 27,180]

Anything less than three points against Ross County and he either walks or is shown the door.

[OnwardsandUpwards 834]

3 hours ago, K.A.I said:

We don't need a big name to stabilise us and be an improvement on Pedro mate that's my point 

I appreciate your point and your views K.A.I after all we all want success for the club.My point is although you may be happy with either manager mentioned there are many many others who would find either unpalatable and turn on them in an instant after a couple of bad results stating they told us so.Its almost as if we set whoever up to fail from the beginning unfortunately.

[K.A.I 36,183]

4 minutes ago, OnwardsandUpwards said:

I appreciate your point and your views K.A.I after all we all want success for the club.My point is although you may be happy with either manager mentioned there are many many others who would find either unpalatable and turn on them in an instant after a couple of bad results stating they told us so.Its almost as if we set whoever up to fail from the beginning unfortunately.

Not so sure about that. I think the boardroom cretins that appoint these people in the first place to the bafflement of the support then keep them in a job way too long when it doesn't work out is setting us up to fail from the beginning. 

[FlippinEck 3,751]

If anything we need momentum going into the first OF game which is at Ibrox and need the win their to claw them back

[the goal machine 7,824]

People are deluding themselves into seeing something that's not there in Pedro. 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 54,374]

Let's assume we did replace Pedro with a new manager like McInnes.

Is there a fair chance some of the new and decent foreign signings who have spoken highly of Pedro could be unsettled? Imo yes.

Is there the chance of significantly improving the impact of many of last season's inherited players - Miller, Wallace, Niko, Hudson? Imo no.

Is there money and opportunity to overhaul the squad in January? Again likely no.

What about strength in depth from the youths? Nope.

And given all that is the impact likely to be better than it will be if Pedro stays? Again I've got to say likely no.

Given all that, we'd probably be looking to chase Pedro's replacement by springtime and do it all again then. 

Something has to give. More investment, more signings, lower expectations, more patience. Something.

Because as it stands we really are destined for failure if we don't change some aspect of how we are being run by the board, managed by a manager, and backed by us the fan base.

[Malvern 11,329]

Still giving him until October camp loyal!

[Blue Avenger 22,568]

3 hours ago, theiconicman said:

Way I see it:

In Warburton we had a manager with a tactical plan and a game system but he was weak in recruitment and man management. 

In Pedro we have a manager who knows what is expected, has the self belief and nasty streak needed to manage Rangers but seems to lack any game plan or tactics/ coaching. 

Might be harsh and too soon but that's where I'm at. 

Ideally we need someone with the best of them both. 

Fuck off. MW had plan A and fuck all else. Could never change a game. The team were pirouetting like fucking ballet dancers, Fucking team wearing tutu's wouldn't have looked out of place.

[Ibroxholm 2,291]

1 hour ago, K.A.I said:

I hear you and take all that on board but I just think that screams out trying to buy time. If he's that bad after 5-months or so, what more depths can we sink to?

You've obviously got a bit more faith than me, but I say why wait? especially when there's still time to salvage the season.

Although  I certainly wasn't happy with it, given all the circumstances, I think it is probably better to overlook the tail end of last season in judging Pedro.  The Board have backed him since and he has largely reconstructed the team over the close season.  My view is we need to give his new team time to gel, certainly consoderably more than 3 league games, before taking any radical steps.  

I don't think I have more faith in Pedro, just more patience and a willingness to give him a reasonable chance at succceeding in the job.  

As per my earlier posts, the only person who can salvage this season is Pedro imo.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 66,716]

15 hours ago, D'Artagnan said:

I concur the European result is indefensible Frank. But we are 3 games into our domestic season with the players Pedro has brought in , and more importantly he has access to the players which fit his sytem and footballing ethos (where the inherited players didnt).

Im neither convinced he is a great coach nor am I similarly convinced he is a complete dud.

The only thing I am convinced about is that its too early to judge

Fair enough, to me he's done too much damage already, when has a Rangers manager ever been able to come back after losing so much of the support?

Get rid before he does long term damage.

[Gman36 3,456]

A good reason to keep him is it'll save us money, and we're not winning anything this year anyway.

It's the same reasoning I had wanting us to keep Warburton until the end of last season. But no, we punted him and now we're in this mess. 

[Bellshill_Bear 1,105]

From Pedro's interviews he seems to know where the problems lie and is trying to rectify them. 

Unlike Warburton he does know about tactics and he specifically stated the team are not doing well enough in the final third.

I'm in the wait and see camp

[The Specky Forum Organiser 66,716]

14 minutes ago, Gman36 said:

A good reason to keep him is it'll save us money, and we're not winning anything this year anyway.

It's the same reasoning I had wanting us to keep Warburton until the end of last season. But no, we punted him and now we're in this mess. 

How the fuck is that a good reason?  

[Gman36 3,456]

51 minutes ago, Frank Harrison said:

How the fuck is that a good reason?  

Because we can save the money and spend it on a better manager and squad next season. Rather than wasting it on a shite squad which is winning nothing anyway.

Warburton until the end of last season, and then a sensible appointment during the summer would have been better than this. 

[Smell the hotdog 4,055]

1 hour ago, Gman36 said:

A good reason to keep him is it'll save us money, and we're not winning anything this year anyway.

It's the same reasoning I had wanting us to keep Warburton until the end of last season. But no, we punted him and now we're in this mess. 

Where has this 'we're not winning anything' anyway mentality come from? 

Look back the last 5 years the likes of Ross County, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone and St Mirren have all won trophies. Tell me how we won't/can't win anything this year?

[Gman36 3,456]

3 minutes ago, Smell the hotdog said:

Where has this 'we're not winning anything' anyway mentality come from? 

Look back the last 5 years the likes of Ross County, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone and St Mirren have all won trophies. Tell me how we won't/can't win anything this year?

True, we could win a cup. One cup in two seasons of what we've spent is a very poor return though. 

[The Specky Forum Organiser 66,716]

10 minutes ago, Gman36 said:

Because we can save the money and spend it on a better manager and squad next season. Rather than wasting it on a shite squad which is winning nothing anyway.

Warburton until the end of last season, and then a sensible appointment during the summer would have been better than this. 

It's not even September and you're writing this season off!!!!!

The squad isn't shite, it's not perfect and there are still areas need improving but it's a decent platform for someone competent to build on.