2023 accounts

[Bigeasy 296]

On 13/11/2023 at 18:00, toolongawake said:

Aye I'd to double take there

Baffling how anyone can watch Lawrence and not see what a great player he is.

[rossco87 691]

55 minutes ago, Negri's lovechild said:

We're also heavily reliant on European income, which was always going to be the case, but we should be factoring that in as additional income (effectively bonus income), and not to go towards running costs, otherwise there's a potential £18m hole right away.

There is an element of (risk assessed) certainty we could be factoring in. Realistically the worst we are going to finish each year is 2nd. The way Euro coefficients work we know which competition that gets you into for the next 2 / 3 years so planning for that revenue to allow us to build seems a sensible route.
 

For example last year we would have known 2nd place was getting CL qualifiers which meant a worst case we were in the EL group stages, I don’t think it is totally reckless therefor to forecast and plan the finances around the fact we were going to get EL group stage money but the uplift if we qualified for the CL would be a bonus.

 

Obviously we could have a total disaster and not get 2nd or fall at an early round of qualifying and drop to Conference League which then leaves a whole in the finances but the likelihood of that needs to be considered low.

[Amokachi 3,052]

1 hour ago, Somemightsay7 said:

Our wage bill for the players we have is an embarrassment. 

The amount of terrible players on £20k+ can't continue to happen. We should have a core squad of 20 players with some youth on top, not the 29 we have now.

We're just a much smaller scale Man Utd - poor players on huge wages who we'll struggle to shift. We've talked about a rebuild for 3 years now. We need to properly start getting rid players this summer and trimming the squad, not just replacing them with more average players. 

Hopefully Clement can get our fitness and injury record under control so we don't need so many just to get a squad out.

 

Kent, Helander & Morelos all sauntered out the club with eff all cash coming in. 
Ball park figure must be near 20m in purchase & wages costs. 
Thats unacceptable to say the least. 

[Somemightsay7 2,451]

1 hour ago, J-Maestro said:

It’s not really a club such as ours should be looking to have 2 players in every position. Plus an extra keeper and striker. If we went in to a season with a youth player as the main backup, fans would go mental. 

That leaves us 3 over and a few will be out at end of the season.

Fans have been crying out for younger players to get a chance for years. Lowry, McCausland, King, Rice, Devine should all be able to get meaningful gametime throughout the year, but instead we bring in the likes of Dowell, Balogun and Sterling on bigger wages to block their route in.

If there are 27 players in front of them it's pointless even having them.

[J-Maestro 11,217]

29 minutes ago, Somemightsay7 said:

Fans have been crying out for younger players to get a chance for years. Lowry, McCausland, King, Rice, Devine should all be able to get meaningful gametime throughout the year, but instead we bring in the likes of Dowell, Balogun and Sterling on bigger wages to block their route in.

If there are 27 players in front of them it's pointless even having them.

Yes they should, but we will be lucky to even have one youth player be good enough every year. 
 

We should have a squad of around 24 every season. No issues with one of the 3 keepers being Kieran Wright next season too. He won’t be on much and fills a homegrown slot.

[JCDBigBear 10,830]

The accounts make awful reading.  The board should be apologising and promising to get their act together.

[King Jela 20,416]

On 16/11/2023 at 01:50, JCDBigBear said:

The accounts make awful reading.  The board should be apologising and promising to get their act together.

I'm flabbergasted as to what their vision is from the team when you see those accounts and how little we have in player assets. 

Being bailed out again by investors is quite unbelievable.

[JCDBigBear 10,830]

5 hours ago, King Jela said:

I'm flabbergasted as to what their vision is from the team when you see those accounts and how little we have in player assets. 

Being bailed out again by investors is quite unbelievable.

The figures are worse than I expected.      Likely to be even worse this financial year as those figures were only until 30th June.    Look at the players sold and signed since that date and Beale's removal.    I see nothing to be even remotely happy about our accounts.   Promised a player trading model which we have failed to follow in the last two seasons (4 transfer windows).

[Worlds_Most_Successful_Team 70]

1 hour ago, JCDBigBear said:

The figures are worse than I expected.      Likely to be even worse this financial year as those figures were only until 30th June.    Look at the players sold and signed since that date and Beale's removal.    I see nothing to be even remotely happy about our accounts.   Promised a player trading model which we have failed to follow in the last two seasons (4 transfer windows).

We had that model in action when Patterson, Bassey and Aribo left. Looking back to then who'd have pictured us having fucking Lammers in the squad, nevermind playing week in week out.

 

Grasping at straws hoping Beale was right and the signing costs were nothing like reported, somehow doubt that'll be a happy story. Need to get the finger out and first perform (hopefully Clements the right lad), then shift/make good signings. 

[Jelavic191 4,474]

I doubt anyone foreseen at the start of the 2021 season that we'd sell Bassey for 20 million the next summer. The list is small but there are a number of players aged 21-25 that we have that could turn out that way too: Raskin, Cantwell, Danilo, Cifuentes, Ridvan. Obviously they need to step it up to get those big bids first. It also means the board need to be a bit more ruthless and sell the players at their peak; we missed the boat on Morelos and Kent.

celtic, on the face of it, appear to have the model we're looking for in that they manage to sell a player each year for £10 million+ and have done going back to Dembele (although there's probably a lot of shite they sign and sold for less that gets overlooked when they sell one for a big fee).   

[.Williamson. 82,687]

11 minutes ago, Jelavic191 said:

I doubt anyone foreseen at the start of the 2021 season that we'd sell Bassey for 20 million the next summer. The list is small but there are a number of players aged 21-25 that we have that could turn out that way too: Raskin, Cantwell, Danilo, Cifuentes, Ridvan. Obviously they need to step it up to get those big bids first. It also means the board need to be a bit more ruthless and sell the players at their peak; we missed the boat on Morelos and Kent.

celtic, on the face of it, appear to have the model we're looking for in that they manage to sell a player each year for £10 million+ and have done going back to Dembele (although there's probably a lot of shite they sign and sold for less that gets overlooked when they sell one for a big fee).   

Really hoping for the best when you include Cifuentes, Yilmaz and Raskin in that list 

[The Godfather 72,077]

Yeah Yilmaz, Cifu and Raskin are not moving for those fees  😆 

The first two can't even get a consistent game and the other is injured every other week.

[Jelavic191 4,474]

Aye definitely i'm not saying they will but the potential is there with those youngish players and it only took Bassey 5 months of consistent performances to get that fee. The point was more that the board have to be swift and sell at the peak of anyone who reaches their potential for the model to work. 

[J-Maestro 11,217]

48 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

Yeah Yilmaz, Cifu and Raskin are not moving for those fees  😆 

The first two can't even get a consistent game and the other is injured every other week.

Not moving for tens of millions but they don’t have to, if they get in to a place eventually where they’re worth 5-8m that’s still a profit. Not everyone is going to be Bassey.

[The Godfather 72,077]

40 minutes ago, J-Maestro said:

Not moving for tens of millions but they don’t have to, if they get in to a place eventually where they’re worth 5-8m that’s still a profit. Not everyone is going to be Bassey.

I don't see any of those names reaching that.

Raskin showed something in his early time but has been average ever since. The other 2 have shown little to nothing to say they will go for bigger money than what we paid.

[Bjorklund 69]

2 hours ago, Jelavic191 said:

I doubt anyone foreseen at the start of the 2021 season that we'd sell Bassey for 20 million the next summer. The list is small but there are a number of players aged 21-25 that we have that could turn out that way too: Raskin, Cantwell, Danilo, Cifuentes, Ridvan. Obviously they need to step it up to get those big bids first. It also means the board need to be a bit more ruthless and sell the players at their peak; we missed the boat on Morelos and Kent.

celtic, on the face of it, appear to have the model we're looking for in that they manage to sell a player each year for £10 million+ and have done going back to Dembele (although there's probably a lot of shite they sign and sold for less that gets overlooked when they sell one for a big fee).   

The thing is though that if someone, let’s say Dessers just for the example, caught fire from now onwards and scored 20 goals between now and 31st January and dragged us back into the title race.

If the board then sold him to Ajax or whoever for €20m in the middle of a title race we would all lose our shit.

If they kept him until the end of the season the form might disappear/could get injured then you are back to square one.

I’m not blaming us as fans I’m just saying it’s not as easy to just sell players.

[Jelavic191 4,474]

1 hour ago, Bjorklund said:

The thing is though that if someone, let’s say Dessers just for the example, caught fire from now onwards and scored 20 goals between now and 31st January and dragged us back into the title race.

If the board then sold him to Ajax or whoever for €20m in the middle of a title race we would all lose our shit.

If they kept him until the end of the season the form might disappear/could get injured then you are back to square one.

I’m not blaming us as fans I’m just saying it’s not as easy to just sell players.

A club with a successful player trading model for me has to judge that it’s selling their players at their peak value and be confident in their recruitment team that they either already have the replacement in their squad or have a list of players ready to buy if someone is sold. 
 

It’ll be key for us going forward to be doing on it a consistent basis to remove the reliance we have just now on money from European Football. 

[Negri's lovechild 14,181]

I dont care who it is and at which part of the season it is, if we're getting offered circa €20m for any player, i'd be raging if we didn't take it. 

It's the reinvestment thats the issue for me. The only player i can see with any potential of getting a few more million back on is Danilo. Even Butland we'd be doing well to get £2 / £3m for. 

 

[JCDBigBear 10,830]

The board under Douglas Park should have been more involved when players such as Davies, Ridvan, etc were being signed and Kent, Morelos, Kamara etc weren't being sold.   Obviously they didn't want the incoming flak at the time.   Same problem with this board under Bennett particularly allowing the signings of Lammers and Dessers for money and wages involved.  Same issue about avoiding flak for not backing the manager.   Lammers and Dessers were never going to make us a profit.  

Any board has to take a risk between interfering in playing matters and balancing the books.  It's a difficult task at times but that is what directors have to do.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,097]

5 minutes ago, JCDBigBear said:

The board under Douglas Park should have been more involved when players such as Davies, Ridvan, etc were being signed and Kent, Morelos, Kamara etc weren't being sold.   Obviously they didn't want the incoming flak at the time.   Same problem with this board under Bennett particularly allowing the signings of Lammers and Dessers for money and wages involved.  Same issue about avoiding flak for not backing the manager.   Lammers and Dessers were never going to make us a profit.  

Any board has to take a risk between interfering in playing matters and balancing the books.  It's a difficult task at times but that is what directors have to do.

Lammers and Dessers have been dreadful signings but there does need to be a balance between buying players to develop and sell as well as buying players who should be expected to come in and make an immediate impact and help win trophies who we maybe wont make money on.

[Johnnyem 238]

Our wage bill is higher than the manky mob's, but they won the treble.

FFS, how can that be anywhere near acceptable?

 

[JCDBigBear 10,830]

3 minutes ago, Negri's lovechild said:

I dont care who it is and at which part of the season it is, if we're getting offered circa €20m for any player, i'd be raging if we didn't take it. 

It's the reinvestment thats the issue for me. The only player i can see with any potential of getting a few more million back on is Danilo. Even Butland we'd be doing well to get £2 / £3m for. 

 

Agreed although I'd be confident of getting more for Butland. Not that I want him sold.   

The list of players we have with little or no value is not just frightening, it's incompetence from football management aided by directors who didn't question such signings.

[KeyserSoze 14,603]

10 minutes ago, Negri's lovechild said:

I dont care who it is and at which part of the season it is, if we're getting offered circa €20m for any player, i'd be raging if we didn't take it. 

It's the reinvestment thats the issue for me. The only player i can see with any potential of getting a few more million back on is Danilo. Even Butland we'd be doing well to get £2 / £3m for. 

 

Am I alone in thinking that I wouldn’t sell anyone especially our more valuable players- with a view to building a winning, successful team?

If you want to sell  our best players then you shouldn’t moan about winning fuck all  

reinvestment means nothing because it’s always unknown 

 

[JCDBigBear 10,830]

1 minute ago, The Specky Forum Organiser said:

Lammers and Dessers have been dreadful signings but there does need to be a balance between buying players to develop and sell as well as buying players who should be expected to come in and make an immediate impact and help win trophies.

I agree about the balance but those two in particular were unlikely to make a positive impact judging by their previous form.   The worst part for me with that pair is the transfer fees and wages involved.    Probably stuck with both for years unless we write off their fees and agree contract settlement deals.   They aren't the only such flops on our books at present.  I hold the directors just as accountable as the football management for our current predicament.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,097]

1 minute ago, JCDBigBear said:

I agree about the balance but those two in particular were unlikely to make a positive impact judging by their previous form.   The worst part for me with that pair is the transfer fees and wages involved.    Probably stuck with both for years unless we write off their fees and agree contract settlement deals.   They aren't the only such flops on our books at present.  I hold the directors just as accountable as the football management for our current predicament.

Yeah, ridiculous signings and you dont really need hindsight to see that.