Is Clement getting an easy ride?

[Jamie0202 13,006]

2 hours ago, BigBearButt said:

By the skin of our teeth yes. You happy with that? You happy watching the same dross churn out the same shite week in week out with no improvement?

See @ForeverAndEver's post a couple up. That's exactly how I felt about today's performance. We were a goal short of the game being more comfortable and people being happier. Rarely troubled and certainly a few positives to take from the game today. 

[Marco 1,776]

12 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Wasn’t exactly a great performance.

We won fairly comfortably, keeper had no saves and we should’ve had 4/5. Take that every week.

We really should have had a second and then it's just a comfortable game from there. Need more players to step up and take their chances. Lawrence alone could have made that a canter today.

[skinnymate1690 780]

My guess is clement wants us to play how we played against ross county , the 15 mins against the scum and the 20-25 mins today. 

However it seems to just fall apart after starting well and thats something he needs to work out how to fix. 

If he cant then i dont think he'll see christmas

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,326]

1 minute ago, King Jela said:

Well describe what you mean by style if play? Playing direct football doesn't count as a style of play as much as possession football does? 

You're just doubling down now. Your first point was that we don't create enough, now it's we do create enough but that's expected 🤷‍♂️ we clearly do create enough, as today showed, and it's lack of quality in the final 3rd letting us down. 

Hard fought and hard on the eyes is how I described. There's nothing about your description that contradicts or even disagrees with my view. They were pish, but always dangerous, we were dangerous but lacking in quality. You're disagreeing over nothing tbh.

Aye, passive aggressive. Pretty common personality fault with a lot of people in the world. You're not alone there. 

Are we attacking or defensive? Do we build play or go direct? Do we use width or play narrow? Do we have a focal point or use multiple attacking players? Do we control midfield and the game or bypass it? Are we a team that pushes to creat3 chance after chance or are we cautious not to give chances away? Are we swashbuckling, dynamic, industrious, negative? How do we typically get from back to front with the ball? How important are our wingers to our play? Do we have a creative flair, including a no 10 who creates multiple chances? Are our fullbacks defenders, midfield assisted, tasked with hitting byline?There's plenty ways our style of play can be discussed. 4231 isn't a style discussion it's a tactical formation one.

We create chances but nowhere near enough, especially against the shite of the league. Was their keeper busy today would you say?

You believe it was hard fought, you've said. I'd say that on a battle type game that this wasn't, it was one lacking quality.

Maybe you read a lot more things as passive aggressive than really are, 

[J-Maestro 13,897]

12 minutes ago, King Jela said:

Actually see that 2nd example with Lawrence in spades today. 

It's like their ego gets in the way of an honest observation or something. Weird.

100% both those chances from Lawrence the first was never a sitter in a million years, the second was a really good save from the keeper.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,326]

12 minutes ago, King Jela said:

Actually see that 2nd example with Lawrence in spades today. 

It's like their ego gets in the way of an honest observation or something. Weird.

What's the "honest observation" of him today that folks ego is getting in the way of?

[Jamie0202 13,006]

14 minutes ago, J-Maestro said:

I'm pretty much done with Clement after the Old Firm comments, but before the game loads were saying we would drop points, now it's a poor win.

Only 5 games in but by league position and form today was our hardest game against the rest so far. We picked up all 3 points and deservedly so. We should maybe have scored more but on the balance of play the right team won. I'm genuinely seeing improvement, especially defensively as a unit. 

[King Jela 21,591]

2 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Are we attacking or defensive? Do we build play or go direct? Do we use width or play narrow? Do we have a focal point or use multiple attacking players? Do we control midfield and the game or bypass it? Are we a team that pushes to creat3 chance after chance or are we cautious not to give chances away? Are we swashbuckling, dynamic, industrious, negative? How do we typically get from back to front with the ball? How important are our wingers to our play? Do we have a creative flair, including a no 10 who creates multiple chances? Are our fullbacks defenders, midfield assisted, tasked with hitting byline?There's plenty ways our style of play can be discussed. 4231 isn't a style discussion it's a tactical formation one.

We create chances but nowhere near enough, especially against the shite of the league. Was their keeper busy today would you say?

You believe it was hard fought, you've said. I'd say that on a battle type game that this wasn't, it was one lacking quality.

Maybe you read a lot more things as passive aggressive than really are, 

I'd say we're more attacking than defensive. We're direct. Both. We play 4 in attack, so yes multiple attacking players. Seen us do both. We definetely set out to create chances, rather than cautious. Not swashbuckling or negative lol describe what dynamic and industrious means in football terms. Never seen the term industrious to describe a team's style of play, ever. Attempt to play it out from the back, then go direct when it isn't on.today, Cortes was an example of how important a good wide man is to our play. Looking forward to seeing him and Cortes in the same side. Not yet, hope Bajrami is the man though, although Lawrence is handy for a goal from there atm. Jefte clearly to anybody with a working pair of eyes likes to get up and down the line, we're attempting an inverted fullbacks role with Tav the now. Well, there you go, just described it in it's 4-2-3-1 form. Seemed easy enough. 

Could've won 3 or 4-0 today. Hardly the first time we've said this after a game. You're simply doubling down with this one because you were clearly wrong.

I said it was a hard fought and a hard on the eyes win, yes. I also agreed it was lacking in quality, particularly when it came to finishing chances. 2 things can be right. No clue why you're clutching on to that particular point, but hey-ho.

Na, the facebook-maw use of the emojis confirmed it tbh.

[King Jela 21,591]

14 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

What's the "honest observation" of him today that folks ego is getting in the way of?

That he was actually decent, but because he's not a popular player so folk can't look past that. 

Even after he makes the difference. 

 

 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,326]

9 minutes ago, King Jela said:

That he was actually decent, but because he's not a popular player so folk can't look past that. 

Even after he makes the difference. 

 

 

"Decent".  Is that even as good as "good"? Is something "decent" acceptable, a passmark, good enough to retain a jersey? What score out of 10 is this decent performance?

Great finish for goal, should have done better with a good chance, average on overall play.

Hope to see him replaced by Bajrami at the weekend and going forward.

An honest observation and view. Maybe not acceptable, ego getting in the way, to those who go out of their way to defend a very poor player.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,326]

5 minutes ago, King Jela said:

I'd say we're more attacking than defensive. We're direct. Both. We play 4 in attack, so yes multiple attacking players. Seen us do both. We definetely set out to create chances, rather than cautious. Not swashbuckling or negative lol describe what dynamic and industrious means in football terms. Never seen the term industrious to describe a team's style of play, ever. Attempt to play it out from the back, then go direct when it isn't on.today, Cortes was an example of how important a good wide man is to our play. Looking forward to seeing him and Cortes in the same side. Not yet, hope Bajrami is the man though, although Lawrence is handy for a goal from there atm. Jefte clearly to anybody with a working pair of eyes likes to get up and down the line, we're attempting an inverted fullbacks role with Tav the now. Well, there you go, just described it in it's 4-2-3-1 form. Seemed easy enough. 

Could've won 3 or 4-0 today. Hardly the first time we've said this after a game. You're simply doubling down with this one because you were clearly wrong.

I said it was a hard fought and a hard on the eyes win, yes. I also agreed it was lacking in quality, particularly when it came to finishing chances. 2 things can be right. No clue why you're clutching on to that particular point, but hey-ho.

Na, the facebook-maw use of the emojis confirmed it tbh.

Great, you tried. 

Wrong 

Passive aggressive there imo

😂😂😂😂

[King Jela 21,591]

5 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Great finish for goal, should have done better with a good chance, average on overall play.

Hope to see him replaced by Bajrami at the weekend and going forward.

An honest observation and view. Maybe not acceptable, ego getting in the way, to those who go out of their way to defend a very poor player.

You took that really personally, didn't you? 

[King Jela 21,591]

2 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Great, you tried. 

Wrong 

Passive aggressive there imo

😂😂😂😂

Huh?

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,326]

Just now, King Jela said:

You took that really personally, didn't you? 

😂😂😂

[King Jela 21,591]

Just now, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

😂😂😂

🤷‍♂️ 

[Malkytfp1 19,623]

It's fine to be positive about the result today but if you're genuinely happy with our performance thats fucking mental imo.

[Kents_Hook 1,697]

2 hours ago, Malkytfp1 said:

It's fine to be positive about the result today but if you're genuinely happy with our performance thats fucking mental imo.

right now i couldn't give a single fuck how we play, all it is right now as far as i'm concerned is three points

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,571]

18 hours ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

It went from like 80% and completely dominating play to far less.

They never threatened enough due to their lack of quality in the final 3rd but still had dangerous moments like the header a yard wide, the deflection past the post, a cross from the left a yard too far ahead of forwards.

We're not playing well for having had a manager in place for approaching a year. We do show short periods of what we're capable of, too rarely unfortunately.

Our overall control where our possession was over 80% was lost to it becoming far more levelled.

We're never gonna have that amount of possession all game ffs

Tarriers finished with only 53% of the ball against us, did they ever lose control of the game? 

The game was never close to being levelled, we created more chances, more saves from their keeper, had more of the ball and butlands strip was so clean post match it just got hung up for the next game

Shite going forward but no way did we lose control of the game at all

[J-Maestro 13,897]

4 minutes ago, Jimfanciesthedude said:

We're never gonna have that amount of possession all game ffs

Tarriers finished with only 53% of the ball against us, did they ever lose control of the game? 

The game was never close to being levelled, we created more chances, more saves from their keeper, had more of the ball and butlands strip was so clean post match it just got hung up for the next game

Shite going forward but no way did we lose control of the game at all

It's just the number of passes too. Which we will always have a lower amount than expected having a more direct style.

People seriously need to stop living in FIFA/FM land for how much they think we should dominate every game.

[AGM_72 4,051]

14 minutes ago, Jimfanciesthedude said:

We're never gonna have that amount of possession all game ffs

Tarriers finished with only 53% of the ball against us, did they ever lose control of the game? 

The game was never close to being levelled, we created more chances, more saves from their keeper, had more of the ball and butlands strip was so clean post match it just got hung up for the next game

Shite going forward but no way did we lose control of the game at all

I don't think it was as simplistic as your making out, they had two efforts go narrowly wide and one chance where the boy delayed enough for Dowell to get back and clear right as he was about to shoot. But having said that, I do agree that we weren't under major pressure and I felt the defense managed the game pretty well. 

The issue is we're in the stage where we simply can't drop anymore points before the scum do and the way things have been going there's that feel where DU (or whoever the opponent is) will probably score off their one and only shot on target. Motherwell game was pretty similar at Hampden, they scored with one chance and nearly equalised with another but did very little else. 

I'd like us to have more than one spell in a match like the first 20 minutes, we created good opportunities on the break in the second half and we really should have taken one. But there wasn't quite a sustained spell of pressure in the way that we had first half. That may well come as the team gels.

[Boybluesy 4,040]

7 minutes ago, AGM_72 said:

I don't think it was as simplistic as your making out, they had two efforts go narrowly wide and one chance where the boy delayed enough for Dowell to get back and clear right as he was about to shoot. But having said that, I do agree that we weren't under major pressure and I felt the defense managed the game pretty well. 

The issue is we're in the stage where we simply can't drop anymore points before the scum do and the way things have been going there's that feel where DU (or whoever the opponent is) will probably score off their one and only shot on target. Motherwell game was pretty similar at Hampden, they scored with one chance and nearly equalised with another but did very little else. 

I'd like us to have more than one spell in a match like the first 20 minutes, we created good opportunities on the break in the second half and we really should have taken one. But there wasn't quite a sustained spell of pressure in the way that we had first half. That may well come as the team gels.

We need another midfielder in there, or a ten who can contribute more defensively.   Also new boy looks like he can hold up play better than Dessers, wouldn't be hard right enough. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,571]

6 minutes ago, AGM_72 said:

I don't think it was as simplistic as your making out, they had two efforts go narrowly wide and one chance where the boy delayed enough for Dowell to get back and clear right as he was about to shoot. But having said that, I do agree that we weren't under major pressure and I felt the defense managed the game pretty well. 

The issue is we're in the stage where we simply can't drop anymore points before the scum do and the way things have been going there's that feel where DU (or whoever the opponent is) will probably score off their one and only shot on target. Motherwell game was pretty similar at Hampden, they scored with one chance and nearly equalised with another but did very little else. 

I'd like us to have more than one spell in a match like the first 20 minutes, we created good opportunities on the break in the second half and we really should have taken one. But there wasn't quite a sustained spell of pressure in the way that we had first half. That may well come as the team gels.

Teams will always fashion some form of chances, that's the nature of the game, how good the chances are is down to how well you play

If a team lumps a 50 yard punt into the box and the striker heads it narrowly wide but the keeper knowing its going wide anyway doesn't bother his arse, would that be classed as a proper chance for example 

We defo have issues going forward, but going to tannadice and not having our keeper make a save is good going for us, the motherwell game we gave up good chances, county we had butland saving us at 0-0 but yesterday at no point did we give up a chance that made you think "awww fuck here we go again" 

And I agree with the rest about gelling etc

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,571]

21 minutes ago, J-Maestro said:

It's just the number of passes too. Which we will always have a lower amount than expected having a more direct style.

People seriously need to stop living in FIFA/FM land for how much they think we should dominate every game.

Looking at the weekend stats, tarriers had 75% of the ball against hearts and gave up more chances and more saves from their keeper than we did at the weekend 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,326]

1 hour ago, Jimfanciesthedude said:

We're never gonna have that amount of possession all game ffs

Tarriers finished with only 53% of the ball against us, did they ever lose control of the game? 

The game was never close to being levelled, we created more chances, more saves from their keeper, had more of the ball and butlands strip was so clean post match it just got hung up for the next game

Shite going forward but no way did we lose control of the game at all

I never said we were going to maintain 80ish % possession. I answered your query. When at that possession we were in full control, the % reduced as did our overall dominant control of the game. They had far more involvement even if they only made half chances.

The tarriers weren't in overall control of the game early on. By their 2nd they were in full control even if they let our CHs fuck about til their hearts were content. Our not getting the 2nd yesterday and letting Utd gain more of a foothold than early in the game is starkly different to how the OF game went.

Utd had chances, they didn't make the most of them regardless of if they counted as shots on target or not.

I'm not saying we lost control of the game. I'm saying it reduced from having absolute overall dominance to less than that with Utd far more involved with more possession. 

You seem content with yesterday's performance. I see it as one that was good enough to get by a shite Utd but wouldn't get us a win against a better team.  And like with this and other managers we've seen the story before. Winning is all that matters but performances can't be ignored as with us they're too often a forewarning to what's round the corner at the next more difficult challenge 

Edit: this tweet explains what I'm saying pretty well

https://x.com/johnwalker_1986/status/1835664768373313766?t=Mpp9_yyErl9KTastMQ5I0g&s=19

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,571]

On 15/09/2024 at 18:14, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

We played well for 15 mins today then lost our overall control, possession, impetus and style..

 

2 hours ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

I'm not saying we lost control of the game.

So what did we lose overall control over then? If it wasnt the game then what? 

We debated yesterday about dismissing the sheeps form, united were undefeated before yesterday, averaging 2 goals per game at home, and were above us in the league

We went there, restricted them to 3 off target efforts (one was a deflection) and controlled possession all game

Why are we dismissing united as a shite united team, 2 wins and 2 draws before yesterday with a gd of +3, seems a luttle dismissive of their form no?