Pressing and passing

[bordersbear 1,105]

Just watched the semi against them again. What has happened to our style of play? We pressed them high up the pitch and it was all one or two touches then move the ball on. They had no answer to it. Why have we lost that ?

[Bluenose1986 703]

Barton and Niko in all honesty. 

[jackrfc95 4,255]

Not enough energy in the midfield. 

[westenclosure2008 797]

Too many players low on confidence. I agree that Barton and Kranjcar haven't played well but think they whole team need to carry the can. They look too concerned about making mistakes just now.

[TMB 14,167]

7 minutes ago, Bluenose1986 said:

Barton and Niko in all honesty. 

Have both of them played every minute of our first five league games?  No, they haven't. 

[bluchoo 846]

we couldnt get a decent centre back so we now play with two defensive midfielders which slows the play down. Play Rossiter in the defensive roll with Windass and Holt/Haliday going forward

[Ibroxholm 2,276]

3 minutes ago, westenclosure2008 said:

Too many players low on confidence. I agree that Barton and Kranjcar haven't played well but think they whole team need to carry the can. They look too concerned about making mistakes just now.

I agree that loss of confidence is likely to be an issue.  When you are losing soft goals, it must be hard to totally commit to a high pressing game.  

Barton and Kranjcar haven't played well but I think more than that, neither is suited to playing a high intensity/tempo game, at least from what I've seen of them so far.

[plumbGER 24,518]

Davie Weirs fault obv

He is getting the blame for most things these days.

[Bluenose1986 703]

7 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

Have both of them played every minute of our first five league games?  No, they haven't. 

No. Not the sole problem but for me a reason why the midfield is lacking. Particularly in the high pressing dept. 

[Teddybear123 215]

Think it's got a lot to do with the fact that we've always had niko or barton playing at CAM and neither of them have the pace/fitness to do the pressing to the extent that holt and zelalem did last season.

[westenclosure2008 797]

13 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

I agree that loss of confidence is likely to be an issue.  When you are losing soft goals, it must be hard to totally commit to a high pressing game.  

Barton and Kranjcar haven't played well but I think more than that, neither is suited to playing a high intensity/tempo game, at least from what I've seen of them so far.

I agree that you def can't play both as you lose too much energy. I think Kranjcar  would be a great option to have come off the bench but would have him come on as one of the front 3 so he has less defensive responsibilities. He could be really effective when teams are tiring and we have them penned back.

[MacBoyd 5,438]

Fear factor. Best we played under warbs was start of last season team believed in it. Then we dropped points and our level wasn't the same till March. Played well then until scum game. After that we have been pish and suffered terrible defeats.

 

The old boys don't help

[KeyserSoze 14,532]

40 minutes ago, bordersbear said:

Just watched the semi against them again. What has happened to our style of play? We pressed them high up the pitch and it was all one or two touches then move the ball on. They had no answer to it. Why have we lost that ?

Where have you been man .... It's been like that since the semi last season. 

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

39 minutes ago, Bluenose1986 said:

Barton and Niko in all honesty. 

So do you blame them for the cup final as well, we were shite versus Hibs as well as in the last 3 or 4 league games of the season.

[KeyserSoze 14,532]

It's a really weird one this. I loved our football right up to that semi final. What has happened? Why have we changed so much. 

The gaffer keeps saying the same thing "we need to press higher" "we need to move the ball quicker". Why oh why are we not then?  

Joey, Niko and Rossiter have not helped but it is all through the team. 

Holt may have turned into Messi in his absence but I do think it's him. It really is him. 

 

[Ibroxholm 2,276]

2 minutes ago, westenclosure2008 said:

I agree that you def can't play both as you lose too much energy. I think Kranjcar  would be a great option to have come off the bench but would have him come on as one of the front 3 so he has less defensive responsibilities. He could be really effective when teams are tiring and we have them penned back.

There is no doubt Kranjcar has ability and he definitely is an option to come off the bench when the game has slowed a bit.

Have to say I haven't been very impressed with Barton so far.  Don't watch much English football so hadn't seen a lot of him before he arrived.  From comments on here, I was expecting a bit of a midfield terrier and/or ball-winner but don't think he is either of those.  

Maybe hoping for too much but looking forward to seeing Matt Crooks get fit and have a run in the team.  He looks a big unit and if he turns out to be a solid ball-winning defensive midfield, it may allow the other midfielders  and forwards to commit to pressurising teams higher up the park (similar to role Dom Ball played in last year's semifinal).

[westenclosure2008 797]

1 minute ago, Ibroxholm said:

There is no doubt Kranjcar has ability and he definitely is an option to come off the bench when the game has slowed a bit.

Have to say I haven't been very impressed with Barton so far.  Don't watch much English football so hadn't seen a lot of him before he arrived.  From comments on here, I was expecting a bit of a midfield terrier and/or ball-winner but don't think he is either of those.  

Maybe hoping for too much but looking forward to seeing Matt Crooks get fit and have a run in the team.  He looks a big unit and if he turns out to be a solid ball-winning defensive midfield, it may allow the other midfielders  and forwards to commit to pressurising teams higher up the park (similar to role Dom Ball played in last year's semifinal).

I read some interesting facts about Burnley last season and them having one of the lowest possession stats in the Championship. They were very much a counter attacking team playing 5 in midfield and under the cosh most of the time. Barton's job was to break up play and then move it on and by all means he was good at it. He is now playing in a team that has the majority of possession and he is expected to do more. I'll be honest I thought we were getting a box to box midfielder but I think that was the Barton of 5 years ago. Saturday should have suited him but you can't play 3 in midfield when you are going to be penned back most of the game. It was too easy to cut off our options.

[MasterD 7,435]

Bar the odd game & 20/30mins here and there the manager changed the way we were playing from the early games. Long before this season.

He changed the dynamic of the team last season around October when he dropped Law more & brought in Zelalem or Shiels, then brought in Miller and shortly after sent Oduwa home.

Zelalem was way too slow, all short slow passes left and right, lack of directness. Miller slower than Oduwa, couldn't take players out the game, couldn't attack with pace, ran about like a headless chicken even though he did score goals. The attacking play had taken 2 reasonably attacking players, both who's first thoughts was to go at the opposition and be direct, and swapped them for 2 players that couldn't play that system. Not to say Law & Oduwa were great but they both suited the way we were playing and more importantly gave the correct balance.

Since then he's generally continued with picking midfields that don't compliment each other, don't support the attackers enough, don't have the energy to play a high-tempo pressing game. It's been that long that IMO it looks like the way the midfield plays is how he wants it to play. If you want to play quick attacking, high-tempo pressing game you don't bring in Joey Barton & Kranjcar.

I keep reading since the semi-final. We were crap in the games leading up to it, we were crap in November-December.

Remember the threads on here when people were starting to notice how our play had regressed and that teams knew how to play against us from back in October-December last year. The threads where people were screaming for investment because we were that bad before January that it looked like we were going to fuck the league up. The threads from then saying the squad was shite, the manager had to find a plan B and asking if we could stop the slide.

It will be interesting to see if he can get that early style of play back and for us to play it consistently. If we did I think he'd get a bit more leeway with dropping points. Continue to drop points and play shite and he can forget it.

[westenclosure2008 797]

1 minute ago, MasterD said:

Bar the odd game & 20/30mins here and there the manager changed the way we were playing from the early games. Long before this season.

He changed the dynamic of the team last season around October when he dropped Law more & brought in Zelalem or Shiels, then brought in Miller and shortly after sent Oduwa home.

Zelalem was way too slow, all short slow passes left and right, lack of directness. Miller slower than Oduwa, couldn't take players out the game, couldn't attack with pace, ran about like a headless chicken even though he did score goals. The attacking play had taken 2 reasonably attacking players, both who's first thoughts was to go at the opposition and be direct, and swapped them for 2 players that couldn't play that system. Not to say Law & Oduwa were great but they both suited the way we were playing and more importantly gave the correct balance.

Since then he's generally continued with picking midfields that don't compliment each other, don't support the attackers enough, don't have the energy to play a high-tempo pressing game. It's been that long that IMO it looks like the way the midfield plays is how he wants it to play. If you want to play quick attacking, high-tempo pressing game you don't bring in Joey Barton & Kranjcar.

I keep reading since the semi-final. We were crap in the games leading up to it, we were crap in November-December.

Remember the threads on here when people were starting to notice how our play had regressed and that teams knew how to play against us from back in October-December last year. The threads where people were screaming for investment because we were that bad before January that it looked like we were going to fuck the league up. The threads from then saying the squad was shite, the manager had to find a plan B and asking if we could stop the slide.

It will be interesting to see if he can get that early style of play back and for us to play it consistently. If we did I think he'd get a bit more leeway with dropping points. Continue to drop points and play shite and he can forget it.

It was around the same time he put the brakes on Tav and Wallace. If one goes then one stays and that's not really helped our defending. The 3 in midfield was no longer becoming a 5 and we weren't spreading the play as much. I actually think though that Zalelam done well for us in the early part of the season. He was always available and rarely gave the ball away and his positioning meant the front 3 didn't have to drop short. His form did dip though.

[bordersbear 1,105]

31 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

Where have you been man .... It's been like that since the semi last season. 

That was my point ! Seems like since then they can't be arsed

[Terry Hurlock Loyal 12,133]

2 hours ago, plumbGER said:

Davie Weirs fault obv

He is getting the blame for most things these days.

You would hardly think he has been here since arriving, hardly any interviews and press appearances. A bit of enigma really, particularly due to the the awful defending signings and tactics.

[OceanRain 2,845]

I felt that the style of play went to shite after the 4-2 game against Hibs in December.

[Drunk and disorderly. 14,421]

Too many players off form, individual errors, too many new players who are not match fit, a drop in confidence and a lack of bottle imo.

Can all be fixed. Just hope we have enough time. 

[Smile 26,606]

We bought players who are too old and have no energy and are clearly unfit we seem to be shopping for championship players still.

[The No.9 760]

Too many off form, a few wrong selection though the correct players are there in the squad!

and is it just me or when holt and Waghorn get injured we sky dive