TEFTONG 60,109 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Redwhiteandblue said: The EPL is giving Liverpool the league, so expect the SPFL to follow suit. When was this decided ya fucking fruit bat ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said: The part that you say we are close to the bottom of the pile for clubs getting shafted. Here is where your argument completely falls apart. You say you dont think that anyone deserves a title until it is mathematically sealed, but you say they do when it is mathematically sealed. What you are saying is that celtic currently dont deserve to win the league, but if a meeting is held and the league is confirmed as being 29/30 games long, with absolutely no more football being played, then you say that they deserve the title. You have somehow attributed more worth to a team, where a ball has not been kicked all because of paperwork! Its a fucking nonsense. I've not attributed more worth to anyone. A ball HAS been kicked. We've played 80% of the season. I can appreciate that there's extenuating circumstances which have forced the league to call it early. I couldn't care less about their title tbh and am more concerned about the damage that voiding the season will to do people at clubs I've worked closely with this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Williamson. 82,224 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 My only disappointment if the league's get voided is that West Ham are going to scrape by into the premier league next season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Dude said: No because it again goes back to the board discretion bit. It would depend on the circumstances, how many games were played, how long the season was to be suspended for, if/when the games can get played. If it happens at the exact same time next year and a team several games ahead, one suggestion would be rolling back to the last time they were level on games. But, again, unless we know what the circumstances are, it's almost impossible to know what the reaction would be in any other hypothetical scenario. If it happened in August, they might just cancel the whole season. If it happens in April they might stick with the results. Every single situation is going to be different. Do many sports leagues have rules in place in event of a global pnademic stopping play for the first time ever? Im sorry but you are going completely off the rails now mate. Where in the fucking rules does it say that the board have the discretion to roll back results of games that have been played? Can you point me to these rules? And no, I doubt many sports leagues have rules in place for a global pandemic stopping play for the first time ever, which is exactly my point. Why should we just pretend that our rules have been made to account for such a scenario and gift out rewards and punishments? It is fucking madness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Williamson. 82,224 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Karen Brady is a wank btw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, TEFTONG said: When was this decided ya fucking fruit bat ? It's likely to be confirmed on Thursday. At a meeting held a few days ago there was virtually no opposition - as reported by the Telegraph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenoz 30,843 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 My actual opinion on all of this is that UEFA's meeting on Tuesday will come and go with no conclusive results because it is still to early to determine when the virus will peak in order for play to resume or ultimately be cancelled. Until UEFA give a definitive direction, then all it's members cannot act and everything remains on limbo. The world is in a waiting period and that includes football rulings with the exception of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Just now, mitre_mouldmaster said: Im sorry but you are going completely off the rails now mate. Where in the fucking rules does it say that the board have the discretion to roll back results of games that have been played? Can you point me to these rules? And no, I doubt many sports leagues have rules in place for a global pandemic stopping play for the first time ever, which is exactly my point. Why should we just pretend that our rules have been made to account for such a scenario and gift out rewards and punishments? It is fucking madness. I didn't say they did, I said one possibility. Where in the fucking rules does it say they can null and void the season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number5 2,121 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Dude said: It's likely to be confirmed on Thursday. At a meeting held a few days ago there was virtually no opposition - as reported by the Telegraph. Just Liverpool getting the title or bottom 3 being relegated, current top 3 in the Championship coming up etc etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgally 452 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Different sport i know,the tpc at the golf . Matsuyama fires a record equalling 63 in the 1st round has a 2 shot lead and they cancel it,the powers that be decide to award everyone the same prize money with no winner. You don't see Matsuyama shouting "they're no taking it off me ", with 3 rounds to go maybe someone would have beat him,the thing is you just don't know unless the 3 rounds are played. So the tournament is voided as it is unfinished/incomplete and there is no winner the way it should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenoz 30,843 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Liverpool's outcome should have no bearing on ours. Imagine using that as case law in court. Ha! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanjo 26,328 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 The virus started in late December and the Chinese are only now just seeing the end of the peak... with cases still being received and a possibility of another spike. Two and a half months and that was a full lockdown of their largest hit area. We aren’t even at the start of this crisis. We would be lucky to see 2020/21 season begin let alone finish this one. It’s over and it should be when people are dying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop 654 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, TEFTONG said: When was this decided ya fucking fruit bat ? Lets hope no one decides to ask Gerrard for his opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop 654 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Just now, bluenoz said: Liverpool's outcome should have no bearing on ours. Imagine using that as case law in court. Ha! If all the leagues follow the same path then legal action might be more difficult. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchieshearercaldow 22,137 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, The Dude said: Jesus christ. They'll cite precents in law. What one football league done in 1940 doesn't set a precedent for another in 2020 other wise, we'd be able to demand sanctions when teams use substitutes citing the 1924 rulebook which didn't allow them. They never foresaw the War when they started the season in 1939/40, they never foresaw a worldwide pandemic when they started 2019/20, the rule book may have changed but unforeseen circumstances haven’t, precedents have been set Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Dude said: I've not attributed more worth to anyone. A ball HAS been kicked. We've played 80% of the season. I can appreciate that there's extenuating circumstances which have forced the league to call it early. I couldn't care less about their title tbh and am more concerned about the damage that voiding the season will to do people at clubs I've worked closely with this season. No you did. Lets look at it again. You stated and I paraphrase, 'A team does not deserve a title until they have won it without mathematical doubt'. Right now, the league has not been cancelled, celtic do not have an insurmountable lead mathematically. Right now by your logic, they do not deserve the title. If a call is made tomorrow to end the league early, celtic will be mathematically out of sight. At this point my your own logic, celtic deserve the title. Between now and that call being made, a single ball will not have been kicked by anyone, yet celtic have earned a title. The rules are not fair from a sporting perspective. When the rules are not fair, my position is that they should be reviewed and a consideration should be made to see if they should be followed or not. Where there is not a consensus, they should look to find a solution that does work. If this means following guidance from Uefa, voiding the league season or reaching out to member clubs and having some form of vote. Following a set of rules which were not designed to deal with the completely unique situation we find ourselves in is irresponsible, laughable and bordering on corrupt. The phrase of 'sporting integrity' has ironically been devalued by the last decade in this country, but right now it has never been more of a real life issue in our sport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1872 20,719 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, .Williamson. said: My only disappointment if the league's get voided is that West Ham are going to scrape by into the premier league next season And Hearts staying up. Although Dundee United dying will make up for that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeparateEntityMyArse 53,725 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 3 hours ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said: Rule 38 relates to winner at the end of the season. Rule c13 states clubs shall play 38 games in a season. A season is defined as a period of the year between the date of the first and date of the last games of that season, unless otherwise dictated by the Board. The above para applied to this term is the period from may 3rd 2019 to 16/17 May 2020. The board can change these dates as they dictate. No reduction of matches mentioned in that definition. And if the absurd notion that it did reflect a reduction in games then that would be entirely illogical in the c13 rule that 38 games will be played in the season. Clubs will play 38 games in a season of 30 games? Nonsense and illogical. At best its trying to manipulate wording to fit what is a preferred outcome rather than what rules state. 12 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said: Im sorry but you are going completely off the rails now mate. Where in the fucking rules does it say that the board have the discretion to roll back results of games that have been played? Can you point me to these rules? And no, I doubt many sports leagues have rules in place for a global pandemic stopping play for the first time ever, which is exactly my point. Why should we just pretend that our rules have been made to account for such a scenario and gift out rewards and punishments? It is fucking madness. It's boring now but a rule clearly states there will be 38 games in a season. The term season is then defined in a way that apparently the spfl and the Dude perceive it can allow matches to be cut, even though that then effectively invalidates the 38 match rule as its contradictory within itself. It doesnt say anything about reducing games. I'll see if I can find the definition causing the ambiguity. The definition in question..... Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close Season; Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, The Dude said: I didn't say they did, I said one possibility. Where in the fucking rules does it say they can null and void the season? It doesnt, but im not the one who is on here defending the rules, indicating they must be followed at all costs. There are no rules for this situation. There was no rules on putting us in the 3rd division, there were no rules in giving us a transfer ban, they still happened through 'discretion' and member clubs being consulted to agree a path for the unprecedented events. Surely this event we are going through is somewhat more unseen than a club getting into financial bother, so why blindly follow rules not designed for the situation we find ourselves in now? Its fucking madness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ger_onimo 20,488 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 It’s quite simple for me - I’ve no idea what the fairest outcome is, but if the roles were reversed, would we be given the title? Absolutely no chance, so nor should they. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hedgehog 10,673 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, The Dude said: It's likely to be confirmed on Thursday. At a meeting held a few days ago there was virtually no opposition - as reported by the Telegraph. Doesn’t matter what they decide down there. Totally irrelevant to up here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop 654 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Just now, Dave Hedgehog said: Doesn’t matter what they decide down there. Totally irrelevant to up here. True to a point but I think we'll find most associations will want to go with the flow and if the big boys decide on a course of action backed by UEFA then the small associations will fall into line. That would give the association a defense if the inevitable challenges come in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude 20,026 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dave Hedgehog said: Doesn’t matter what they decide down there. Totally irrelevant to up here. I agree Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitre_mouldmaster 21,509 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 minute ago, The Dude said: I agree It shouldnt be. This in one sport, there should be a clear lead from the overarching governing bodies, and it should be cascaded down. Uefa should be providing guidance on how this is played out for all of Europe, as the virus is effecting all of Europe. If the rules are complex and say that leagues where over 70% have been completed, then a certain model is applied, then fair enough. If less than 70% has been completed, then it is voided, then fair enough. What is not acceptable IMO is that one league takes one action, another takes a different view and the sport is decided on completely different criteria. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Traive 22,779 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, The Dude said: What's fair about depriving Raith Rovers promotion? Through no fault of their own is the season ending but you think they should be stuck in a lower division for another season. That's not common sense or fair. Because the contest is incomplete. There are other clubs who would probably have gone on to win titles or achieve promotion but circumstances beyond the control of our sport mean that the remaining games are unlikely to be played. I think back to Aguero’s goal to grab the title a few years ago. You would never have awarded Man City the title with 9 seconds to go, never mind 9 matches. You cannot advocate awarding prizes on “probably” then bitch about common sense or fairness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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