Proud of the Orange and Blue

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,647]

Usual tactics by the original poster, interesting article he says but I won't be converted he says then one his fellow conspirators comes in and gives it Rangers have nothing to do with Protestantism blah blah blah blah, time to flush these imposters down the pan ? Anybody ever met these people ?

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Ffs - more of this same ubber-proddy - take us back to the dark ages pish.

Here is my summary of the article - "I'd rather we died financially as a club than move on, and fuck the MAJORITY".

.. the article write would rather have 15,000 of his 'type; than 50,000 Rangers fans - so even the article writer realises that for the majority who go to Ibrox - its about the football - fuck all else!

[Boab 73]

Usual tactics by the original poster, interesting article he says but I won't be converted he says then one his fellow conspirators comes in and gives it Rangers have nothing to do with Protestantism blah blah blah blah, time to flush these imposters down the pan ? Anybody ever met these people ?

If you're talking about me, then a decent amount of mods have met me actually and I as recently as about 3 weeks I was talking to an admin in person.

[Boab 73]

Ffs - more of this same ubber-proddy - take us back to the dark ages pish.

Here is my summary of the article - "I'd rather we died financially as a club than move on, and fuck the MAJORITY".

.. the article write would rather have 15,000 of his 'type; than 50,000 Rangers fans - so even the article writer realises that for the majority who go to Ibrox - its about the football - fuck all else!

My Taigdar is switched to amber alert and this one and the Cartman are off the scale. Anyone who honestly thinks these two are Bears and not just handwringers are sadly mistaken.

Both are Bheasts and both have a little thing for VB. In fact Bluepeter wrote so much shyte last night, it was painful to read his Bhesastly posts, which were eventually chopped.

Go home, it's over!

[minstral 5,375]

Ffs - more of this same ubber-proddy - take us back to the dark ages pish.

Here is my summary of the article - "I'd rather we died financially as a club than move on, and fuck the MAJORITY".

.. the article write would rather have 15,000 of his 'type; than 50,000 Rangers fans - so even the article writer realises that for the majority who go to Ibrox - its about the football - fuck all else!

I have told you before go and stand outside the stadium and preach your pish and lies. Also you are showing your true colours by saying fuck the majority which is a disgraceful comment, The majority of protestant fans have helped make this club to be one of the biggest clubs in the world, and we will not stand back and let the handwringers take over.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Ffs - more of this same ubber-proddy - take us back to the dark ages pish.

Here is my summary of the article - "I'd rather we died financially as a club than move on, and fuck the MAJORITY".

.. the article write would rather have 15,000 of his 'type; than 50,000 Rangers fans - so even the article writer realises that for the majority who go to Ibrox - its about the football - fuck all else!

My Taigdar is switched to amber alert and this one and the Cartman are off the scale. Anyone who honestly thinks these two are Bears and not just handwringers are sadly mistaken.

Both are Bheasts and both have a little thing for VB. In fact Bluepeter wrote so much shyte last night, it was painful to read his Bhesastly posts, which were eventually chopped.

Go home, it's over!

PLEASE! dont confuse me with Bluepeter - he gets so annoyed at that!

As for all this if your against us then you are a t***,Bheast etc. its the sort of purile argument that those who know they are losing an argument use to try to score cheap points-. You need to try a bit harder son and try to be a bit more innovative - at least that way we may get a laugh with you rather than feeling sorry for you!

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Ffs - more of this same ubber-proddy - take us back to the dark ages pish.

Here is my summary of the article - "I'd rather we died financially as a club than move on, and fuck the MAJORITY".

.. the article write would rather have 15,000 of his 'type; than 50,000 Rangers fans - so even the article writer realises that for the majority who go to Ibrox - its about the football - fuck all else!

I have told you before go and stand outside the stadium and preach your pish and lies. Also you are showing your true colours by saying fuck the majority which is a disgraceful comment, The majority of protestant fans have helped make this club to be one of the biggest clubs in the world, and we will not stand back and let the handwringers take over.

Minstral - please re-read my post - I am making the point that its the article writer who is saying Fk the majority (or how I summarise it) the majority of us, as you know, support Rangers for the football - we are not swayed by this aged arguement that if you support Rangers you have to take some sort of Unionist, protestant stance to do so. As I keep reminding you - its about the footall.

[papaguy51 912]

Please let the season start early.

I want to talk about football again

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

it's called a discussion, sorry if you feel partonised and and shouted down but considering the original article brands 2/3 of our support as hand wringers and you seem to be accusing me of all sorts (for reasons best known to yourself) then what type of response do you think you , or the article deserves.

I would imagione you are refering to letters i have been told about on headed notepaper concerning the billy boys, if not and i am wrong i happily retract. The billy boys is still banned by uefa though........

Need to go now son, big Orange Lodge meeting coming up soon. And you're boring me to death now

Headed notepaper? Jeez oh!

Billy Boys is banned by UEFA is said with too much gusto and celebration to be said by a Bear in my opinion. Can you show us the proof of this? You see son, you open your mouth and spout drivel without having back up or proof. Just like the headed notepaper in fact.

Everything you've said points to one thing and I'll let others decide who's the Rangers man here.

Bye and thanks again for getting worked up about our article, there will be a lot more to come just for you

No wonder you run your mb the way you do because you don't seem to handle someone disagreeing with you very well. to think you were greeting about name calling a minute ago now you are calling me a tim........

How can a type a sentence with gusto and celebration that just said the billy boys has been banned,....that makes no sense at all.....

You show me the proof it hasn't been banned you make up the ridiculous accusation.,.....

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

Ffs - more of this same ubber-proddy - take us back to the dark ages pish.

Here is my summary of the article - "I'd rather we died financially as a club than move on, and fuck the MAJORITY".

.. the article write would rather have 15,000 of his 'type; than 50,000 Rangers fans - so even the article writer realises that for the majority who go to Ibrox - its about the football - fuck all else!

My Taigdar is switched to amber alert and this one and the Cartman are off the scale. Anyone who honestly thinks these two are Bears and not just handwringers are sadly mistaken.

Both are Bheasts and both have a little thing for VB. In fact Bluepeter wrote so much shyte last night, it was painful to read his Bhesastly posts, which were eventually chopped.

Go home, it's over!

Why do i have somehting for the VB ? I have only ever discussed anything with you on the RST thread and i agreed with you on there and i have never even been on your website.

You maybe have a wee bit of an overflated sense of your own importance mate, i really don't care i just commented on an article posted on this site otherwise i would have never even seen it because as i said i don't ever go on your site......

[Dennis 1,011]

Ffs - more of this same ubber-proddy - take us back to the dark ages pish.

Here is my summary of the article - "I'd rather we died financially as a club than move on, and fuck the MAJORITY".

.. the article write would rather have 15,000 of his 'type; than 50,000 Rangers fans - so even the article writer realises that for the majority who go to Ibrox - its about the football - fuck all else!

My Taigdar is switched to amber alert and this one and the Cartman are off the scale. Anyone who honestly thinks these two are Bears and not just handwringers are sadly mistaken.

Both are Bheasts and both have a little thing for VB. In fact Bluepeter wrote so much shyte last night, it was painful to read his Bhesastly posts, which were eventually chopped.

Go home, it's over!

Why do i have somehting for the VB ? I have only ever discussed anything with you on the RST thread and i agreed with you on there and i have never even been on your website.

You maybe have a wee bit of an overflated sense of your own importance mate, i really don't care i just commented on an article posted on this site otherwise i would have never even seen it because as i said i don't ever go on your site......

What did you mention it for then you dullard? Remind me if you ever do come on, to expose you as a Bheast within seconds of registering.

Overinflated sense of my importance? You really are a patronising little earl aren't you Token? Ooops! Sorry, Cartman.

He's a Bheast folks, take my word for it.

if cartman was TOKEN on the follow follow forum then he is an earl. and a scum bag to boot.

that c@nt wont remember me but i definatly know him.

[Gazzas_Flute 11]

Cracking article .

[Ace 3,556]

Can't we all agree that we love the club & want what is best for it ... ALWAYS !!!

Rather than look to what you disagree about why not look to what you have in common i.e. Rangers and go from there.

[bouncy 315]

These are facts that SDM should be facing up to and defending rather than trying to do our enemies job for them.

NAIL ON THE HEAD

Great read , my complements to the writer.

[nemisis 358]

Can't we all agree that we love the club & want what is best for it ... ALWAYS !!!

Rather than look to what you disagree about why not look to what you have in common i.e. Rangers and go from there.

Why would earl haigs like token and his cronies agree to love Rangers????????????????????????????????????

[BoltonLoyal 2]

Can't we all agree that we love the club & want what is best for it ... ALWAYS !!!

Rather than look to what you disagree about why not look to what you have in common i.e. Rangers and go from there.

I think most of us do Ace, but all this uber-prod horseshit that's being peddled about the traditionalists amongst us by certain posters, does nothing to help the 'unity' in our support.

[steamroller 0]

Can you show me where it says every Rangers fan should think like the author?

Some of our support chooses to adopt a head in the sand attitude towards it – the “ok, it maybe was like that once but let’s move forward into the 21st century” brigade. Frankly, our club does not need this ‘new age fan’ - I would much rather have 15,000 staunch defendants of our club (the way it was in the early 80’s) than have the 30,000+ handwringers attending nowadays who bend over backwards to appease the scum.

I think that though the club has a proud Protestant heritage, which should always be celebrated as part of the club's history, the writer of this article has his head buried in the sand when it comes to other fans.

We are all Rangers fans, "new age" fan or not. Why should we all sing FTP and so on if we dont want to, not all of us have a hatred of Catholics, not all of us associate our religion with our club.

Doesn't make me any less of a fan, I still buy my season ticket annually and strips for me and my boy. I don't want my son listening to someone shouting FTP, nor do i want him growing up with the attitude that all non-Protestants are not as good as him. I sit in the family area now so he doesnt hear such things.

That's not "head in the sand", is it? Me and my son will remain "hand-wringers" in this writer's view and I couldn't care less - his opinions are outdated and irrelevant in today's society.

Yes, it is political correctness gone mad disallowing certain songs, they do no harm in a football ground, and people should be able to sing what they like. But people also should not be expected to be a bigot to be a "better" Rangers fan.

[grahamteuchter 1]

Written by Steadfast

Sunday, 05 July 2009

Rangers FC and its links to the Orange Order, Protestantism in general and loyalism are too often undermined not just by our clubs enemies in the press and media but sadly by many factions of our own support, and also from the enemy within, Sir David Murray.

Some of our support chooses to adopt a head in the sand attitude towards it – the “ok, it maybe was like that once but let’s move forward into the 21st century” brigade. Frankly, our club does not need this ‘new age fan’ - I would much rather have 15,000 staunch defendants of our club (the way it was in the early 80’s) than have the 30,000+ handwringers attending nowadays who bend over backwards to appease the scum.

We as a club prospered for more than a century by standing up for and promoting our heritage and tradition. The only thing that has changed since then is our enemy finding its voice through newspaper outlets and media channels to spout their undeniable hatred of all things Rangers, Orange and Protestant.

So, how did we get to where we are? There are many reasons for this - a couple are mentioned above - but for me the main one is the attitude of our current owner, Sir Mint of the Vineyards.

For decades and up until the early 90’s, Rangers FC were proud hosts of the annual Orange Order Church Parade at Ibrox. The parade and church service had been held more often than not within the confines of Ibrox Park with fervent Rangers supporter Rev James Currie administering the service, although on the last occasion it was club director, Donald Findlay, who was bestowed this honour.

Apart from the annual Boyne Celebrations this was the most sought forward to parade of the year – the numbers attending (in excess of a thousand Orangemen and bandsmen) gave indication of that. Remember, the Orange Order is a Christian organisation that bases its teachings on the Bible, the very same Bible that is carried for all to see on every parade. So, what was the problem - after all, we live in a Christian country?

Sir David Murray thought there was one as he put a stop to it – no reason was given, but you can bet your last penny that it was because he did not want our club associated in any way with the Orange Order – unless of course it’s for his own financial benefit.

Call me cynical but why else would he ask the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland to participate in his recent share issue by asking its members to buy shares in the club? The GOLS should have told him to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine, but sadly they’ve got as strong a backbone as your average invertebrate – and I say that as an Orangeman of more than 20 years.

As well as the ditching of the church parade there is also SDM’s failure to tackle head on the constant vitriolic attacks on our club, its players both present and former, (deceased included) and also the support. Songs like The Sash and Derry’s Walls have been sung at Ibrox since the late 40’s, not one of our enemies had a problem with them.

Now, vermin like Spiers, Keevins and McNee are continually stating that these songs have no place at a football match. Well, listen up, Norman, Spew and Tick Tock - these songs are part of our clubs history, they have as much right to be sung at our games as YNWA has at Anfield – the only difference is we’ve been singing ours for a hell of a lot longer.

Adding to the attacks on our club because of the Orange connection is another piece of jump-the-dyke vermin, ex-Celtic player, Davie Provan – Peace Process Provo as he’s otherwise known. This is the cockroach that once stated Gazza mimicking a flute (directly in front of the Rangers support) would bring danger to the Northern Irish peace process. What did SDM have to say about it? The square root of zilch – is anyone surprised?

And another thing! We bring out an Orange coloured strip but are slaughtered again from the media. Why? Because it’s Orange! You could not make it up. Again, SDM sat back and did nothing. Sorry, he did do something. He stopped the sale of it after less than a season. It’s utterly astonishing to think that the biggest selling Rangers strip of all time (it would still be making money to this day) is halted because SDM is too frightened to stand up to our clubs enemies – but that’s the sort of person who is running, sorry, that should read, ruining our club.

To give indication of how closely linked Rangers were/are to the Orange Order one only has to look at any Orange Parade either here on the mainland or over in Northern Ireland. Most of the onlookers are bedecked in the colours of our club – yes, there are some of the younger generation who let themselves down by overindulging in their alcohol consumption – and they follow the parades because it is the natural thing to do if you are a Rangers supporter; Unionist, Loyalist and Protestant.

We have a Rangers Accordian Band, normally found at the head of any parade such is the revere that they hold with the Orange Order - I’m sure somewhere in your house you’ll have LP’s or 45’s (most of these were manufactured in the 60’s & 70’s) with the Rangers name and crest emblazoned on the front cover, and with all our favourite Orange tunes (the play list) proudly on display on the back; Lily ‘O’, Green Grassy Slopes, Banks Of The Boyne etc… It is these pieces of nostalgia that need to and should be reproduced, but again it all comes down to SDM and his blatant dislike of Orangeism and it’s link to our club.

Perhaps the most sickening aspect of SDM’s tenure was the removal from office of one of his most trusted Directors, Donald Findlay QC – that’s right, Queen’s Counsel. Donald’s crime, according to SDM, was to indulge on July 1st 1999 at a Private Party (not that it should make any difference) in the singing of a couple of those songs mentioned beforehand: The Sash and Derry’s Walls.

Now if these songs are regarded as sectarian or bigoted as is widely reported in the gutter press, then why are flute bands allowed to play them unchallenged from the law of the land? I challenge anyone to find anything derogatory, sectarian or otherwise with these songs.

Contrast SDM’s attitude to that of Celtic’s mouthpiece, Peter Lawwell who defended (to the hilt) two of his players, Pearson and Hartson, when caught red handed singing and chanting songs in praise of the proscribed terrorist group and murderers of innocent women, children and British citizens, the IRA, at an official Celtic Supporters Rally in Letterkenny in the Irish Republic, where almost the entire Celtic Boardroom were in attendance. It puts things into perspective.

On to the support, and there is certainly a change within the rank and file at Ibrox from that which followed the team throughout the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and to a lesser extent the 90’s – those wanting to sing our songs of culture are virtually muted, the threat of expulsion and removal of season ticket hanging over them like the Sword of Damocles. No guesses at who’s to blame!!

Further indication of our owner’s attitude towards the support comes with his treatment of the band that plays at home games. Now the band may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but I can guarantee you that if they struck up a few lines of The Sash during one of the games the place would be rocking. Alas – yes, you’ve guessed it – SDM has warned them that if they dare to play the aforementioned tune then their position within Ibrox would be reviewed. Can you see a pattern emerging?

On the subject of bands, next time you’re out enjoying the spectacle of an Orange Parade, take note of how many bands you hear playing some of the Rangers’ favourites; Follow Follow, The Billy Boys (yes, that one) Wolverhampton Town etc.

To finish I’ll mention my own circumstances which further emphasises what I’ve been saying. My supporters club has had 5 Chairmen in the last 40+ years. Just one of those men has not been an Orangeman – no doubt there will be many other clubs with similar tales. On recent European travel with mates to Villarreal, Stuttgart, Barcelona and Manchester among others, the vast majority (upwards of 75%) of us were Orangemen.

To paint a clearer picture; 5 of us went to Villarreal, 6 to Stuttgart, 8 to Barcelona and 10 to Manchester. We are not ashamed of where we come from and what we are, on the contrary we are proud of our roots. These are facts that SDM should be facing up to and defending rather than trying to do our enemies job for them.

To me, the link between our club and the Orange scene is undeniable - it’ll be a sad day when we are not allowed to celebrate our culture. I fear that day is not too far away – and we don’t have to look too far to see why.

An article I enjoyed reading but one I'm one I'm not a convert to as I suppose I'd probably come under the handwringer umbrella so to speak - not that I'm bothered.

What do you make of it?

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/index.php?o...5&Itemid=26

What a load of self rightious pish!!!

Glasgow Rangers have fans from all over the world. How many of these fans have anything to do with the orange order? My thinking is not that many. I myself come from the west coast where there are no orange lodges or any possibility of their ever being one. Does that make me not worthy of being a Ger. Are there many orange lodges in other countries except central belt of Scotland and Northern Ireland? Very few i would imagine. Glasgow Rangers are one of the biggest names in world football and not a wee special club for that "15,000".

Now im not saying that any traditions have to stop. Yes be proud of your heritage and all that stuff that you feel that you have to do. But Rangers are for everyone. They are for supporters who love and care for their club rather than their own agendas. The mention of these songs being sung from the 40's is not a great arguament as we existed for 70 years before that. What about then.

We are all different...get over it.

[Boab 73]

If I recall correctly, you were called Token on Follow Follow and exposed as a Bheast True or false? You and Peter are Bheasts, of that there is no doubt. I'll leave it at that and let the Bears make up their own minds. You leave VB up to me son, it does OK without gormless no marks and Earl Haigs like you.

I don't really go in for online fights to be honest son, so I'll say cheerio and let you get on with pretending to be a Bear.

They hate Rangers more than they love Ra Sellik you know.

Usually on RM, we express timmy accusations to pm to mods or other things of that theme and complaints of that nature

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Can you show me where it says every Rangers fan should think like the author?

Some of our support chooses to adopt a head in the sand attitude towards it – the "ok, it maybe was like that once but let's move forward into the 21st century" brigade. Frankly, our club does not need this 'new age fan' - I would much rather have 15,000 staunch defendants of our club (the way it was in the early 80's) than have the 30,000+ handwringers attending nowadays who bend over backwards to appease the scum.

I think that though the club has a proud Protestant heritage, which should always be celebrated as part of the club's history, the writer of this article has his head buried in the sand when it comes to other fans.

We are all Rangers fans, "new age" fan or not. Why should we all sing FTP and so on if we dont want to, not all of us have a hatred of Catholics, not all of us associate our religion with our club.

Doesn't make me any less of a fan, I still buy my season ticket annually and strips for me and my boy. I don't want my son listening to someone shouting FTP, nor do i want him growing up with the attitude that all non-Protestants are not as good as him. I sit in the family area now so he doesnt hear such things.

That's not "head in the sand", is it? Me and my son will remain "hand-wringers" in this writer's view and I couldn't care less - his opinions are outdated and irrelevant in today's society.

Yes, it is political correctness gone mad disallowing certain songs, they do no harm in a football ground, and people should be able to sing what they like. But people also should not be expected to be a bigot to be a "better" Rangers fan.

Excellent post!

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Written by Steadfast

Sunday, 05 July 2009

Rangers FC and its links to the Orange Order, Protestantism in general and loyalism are too often undermined not just by our clubs enemies in the press and media but sadly by many factions of our own support, and also from the enemy within, Sir David Murray.

Some of our support chooses to adopt a head in the sand attitude towards it – the "ok, it maybe was like that once but let's move forward into the 21st century" brigade. Frankly, our club does not need this 'new age fan' - I would much rather have 15,000 staunch defendants of our club (the way it was in the early 80's) than have the 30,000+ handwringers attending nowadays who bend over backwards to appease the scum.

We as a club prospered for more than a century by standing up for and promoting our heritage and tradition. The only thing that has changed since then is our enemy finding its voice through newspaper outlets and media channels to spout their undeniable hatred of all things Rangers, Orange and Protestant.

So, how did we get to where we are? There are many reasons for this - a couple are mentioned above - but for me the main one is the attitude of our current owner, Sir Mint of the Vineyards.

For decades and up until the early 90's, Rangers FC were proud hosts of the annual Orange Order Church Parade at Ibrox. The parade and church service had been held more often than not within the confines of Ibrox Park with fervent Rangers supporter Rev James Currie administering the service, although on the last occasion it was club director, Donald Findlay, who was bestowed this honour.

Apart from the annual Boyne Celebrations this was the most sought forward to parade of the year – the numbers attending (in excess of a thousand Orangemen and bandsmen) gave indication of that. Remember, the Orange Order is a Christian organisation that bases its teachings on the Bible, the very same Bible that is carried for all to see on every parade. So, what was the problem - after all, we live in a Christian country?

Sir David Murray thought there was one as he put a stop to it – no reason was given, but you can bet your last penny that it was because he did not want our club associated in any way with the Orange Order – unless of course it's for his own financial benefit.

Call me cynical but why else would he ask the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland to participate in his recent share issue by asking its members to buy shares in the club? The GOLS should have told him to stick it where the sun doesn't shine, but sadly they've got as strong a backbone as your average invertebrate – and I say that as an Orangeman of more than 20 years.

As well as the ditching of the church parade there is also SDM's failure to tackle head on the constant vitriolic attacks on our club, its players both present and former, (deceased included) and also the support. Songs like The Sash and Derry's Walls have been sung at Ibrox since the late 40's, not one of our enemies had a problem with them.

Now, vermin like Spiers, Keevins and McNee are continually stating that these songs have no place at a football match. Well, listen up, Norman, Spew and Tick Tock - these songs are part of our clubs history, they have as much right to be sung at our games as YNWA has at Anfield – the only difference is we've been singing ours for a hell of a lot longer.

Adding to the attacks on our club because of the Orange connection is another piece of jump-the-dyke vermin, ex-Celtic player, Davie Provan – Peace Process Provo as he's otherwise known. This is the cockroach that once stated Gazza mimicking a flute (directly in front of the Rangers support) would bring danger to the Northern Irish peace process. What did SDM have to say about it? The square root of zilch – is anyone surprised?

And another thing! We bring out an Orange coloured strip but are slaughtered again from the media. Why? Because it's Orange! You could not make it up. Again, SDM sat back and did nothing. Sorry, he did do something. He stopped the sale of it after less than a season. It's utterly astonishing to think that the biggest selling Rangers strip of all time (it would still be making money to this day) is halted because SDM is too frightened to stand up to our clubs enemies – but that's the sort of person who is running, sorry, that should read, ruining our club.

To give indication of how closely linked Rangers were/are to the Orange Order one only has to look at any Orange Parade either here on the mainland or over in Northern Ireland. Most of the onlookers are bedecked in the colours of our club – yes, there are some of the younger generation who let themselves down by overindulging in their alcohol consumption – and they follow the parades because it is the natural thing to do if you are a Rangers supporter; Unionist, Loyalist and Protestant.

We have a Rangers Accordian Band, normally found at the head of any parade such is the revere that they hold with the Orange Order - I'm sure somewhere in your house you'll have LP's or 45's (most of these were manufactured in the 60's & 70's) with the Rangers name and crest emblazoned on the front cover, and with all our favourite Orange tunes (the play list) proudly on display on the back; Lily 'O', Green Grassy Slopes, Banks Of The Boyne etc… It is these pieces of nostalgia that need to and should be reproduced, but again it all comes down to SDM and his blatant dislike of Orangeism and it's link to our club.

Perhaps the most sickening aspect of SDM's tenure was the removal from office of one of his most trusted Directors, Donald Findlay QC – that's right, Queen's Counsel. Donald's crime, according to SDM, was to indulge on July 1st 1999 at a Private Party (not that it should make any difference) in the singing of a couple of those songs mentioned beforehand: The Sash and Derry's Walls.

Now if these songs are regarded as sectarian or bigoted as is widely reported in the gutter press, then why are flute bands allowed to play them unchallenged from the law of the land? I challenge anyone to find anything derogatory, sectarian or otherwise with these songs.

Contrast SDM's attitude to that of Celtic's mouthpiece, Peter Lawwell who defended (to the hilt) two of his players, Pearson and Hartson, when caught red handed singing and chanting songs in praise of the proscribed terrorist group and murderers of innocent women, children and British citizens, the IRA, at an official Celtic Supporters Rally in Letterkenny in the Irish Republic, where almost the entire Celtic Boardroom were in attendance. It puts things into perspective.

On to the support, and there is certainly a change within the rank and file at Ibrox from that which followed the team throughout the 60's, 70's, 80's and to a lesser extent the 90's – those wanting to sing our songs of culture are virtually muted, the threat of expulsion and removal of season ticket hanging over them like the Sword of Damocles. No guesses at who's to blame!!

Further indication of our owner's attitude towards the support comes with his treatment of the band that plays at home games. Now the band may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I can guarantee you that if they struck up a few lines of The Sash during one of the games the place would be rocking. Alas – yes, you've guessed it – SDM has warned them that if they dare to play the aforementioned tune then their position within Ibrox would be reviewed. Can you see a pattern emerging?

On the subject of bands, next time you're out enjoying the spectacle of an Orange Parade, take note of how many bands you hear playing some of the Rangers' favourites; Follow Follow, The Billy Boys (yes, that one) Wolverhampton Town etc.

To finish I'll mention my own circumstances which further emphasises what I've been saying. My supporters club has had 5 Chairmen in the last 40+ years. Just one of those men has not been an Orangeman – no doubt there will be many other clubs with similar tales. On recent European travel with mates to Villarreal, Stuttgart, Barcelona and Manchester among others, the vast majority (upwards of 75%) of us were Orangemen.

To paint a clearer picture; 5 of us went to Villarreal, 6 to Stuttgart, 8 to Barcelona and 10 to Manchester. We are not ashamed of where we come from and what we are, on the contrary we are proud of our roots. These are facts that SDM should be facing up to and defending rather than trying to do our enemies job for them.

To me, the link between our club and the Orange scene is undeniable - it'll be a sad day when we are not allowed to celebrate our culture. I fear that day is not too far away – and we don't have to look too far to see why.

An article I enjoyed reading but one I'm one I'm not a convert to as I suppose I'd probably come under the handwringer umbrella so to speak - not that I'm bothered.

What do you make of it?

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/index.php?o...5&Itemid=26

What a load of self rightious pish!!!

Glasgow Rangers have fans from all over the world. How many of these fans have anything to do with the orange order? My thinking is not that many. I myself come from the west coast where there are no orange lodges or any possibility of their ever being one. Does that make me not worthy of being a Ger. Are there many orange lodges in other countries except central belt of Scotland and Northern Ireland? Very few i would imagine. Glasgow Rangers are one of the biggest names in world football and not a wee special club for that "15,000".

Now im not saying that any traditions have to stop. Yes be proud of your heritage and all that stuff that you feel that you have to do. But Rangers are for everyone. They are for supporters who love and care for their club rather than their own agendas. The mention of these songs being sung from the 40's is not a great arguament as we existed for 70 years before that. What about then.

We are all different...get over it.

Also an excellent post!

[Dennis 1,011]

Written by Steadfast

Sunday, 05 July 2009

Rangers FC and its links to the Orange Order, Protestantism in general and loyalism are too often undermined not just by our clubs enemies in the press and media but sadly by many factions of our own support, and also from the enemy within, Sir David Murray.

Some of our support chooses to adopt a head in the sand attitude towards it – the “ok, it maybe was like that once but let’s move forward into the 21st century” brigade. Frankly, our club does not need this ‘new age fan’ - I would much rather have 15,000 staunch defendants of our club (the way it was in the early 80’s) than have the 30,000+ handwringers attending nowadays who bend over backwards to appease the scum.

We as a club prospered for more than a century by standing up for and promoting our heritage and tradition. The only thing that has changed since then is our enemy finding its voice through newspaper outlets and media channels to spout their undeniable hatred of all things Rangers, Orange and Protestant.

So, how did we get to where we are? There are many reasons for this - a couple are mentioned above - but for me the main one is the attitude of our current owner, Sir Mint of the Vineyards.

For decades and up until the early 90’s, Rangers FC were proud hosts of the annual Orange Order Church Parade at Ibrox. The parade and church service had been held more often than not within the confines of Ibrox Park with fervent Rangers supporter Rev James Currie administering the service, although on the last occasion it was club director, Donald Findlay, who was bestowed this honour.

Apart from the annual Boyne Celebrations this was the most sought forward to parade of the year – the numbers attending (in excess of a thousand Orangemen and bandsmen) gave indication of that. Remember, the Orange Order is a Christian organisation that bases its teachings on the Bible, the very same Bible that is carried for all to see on every parade. So, what was the problem - after all, we live in a Christian country?

Sir David Murray thought there was one as he put a stop to it – no reason was given, but you can bet your last penny that it was because he did not want our club associated in any way with the Orange Order – unless of course it’s for his own financial benefit.

Call me cynical but why else would he ask the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland to participate in his recent share issue by asking its members to buy shares in the club? The GOLS should have told him to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine, but sadly they’ve got as strong a backbone as your average invertebrate – and I say that as an Orangeman of more than 20 years.

As well as the ditching of the church parade there is also SDM’s failure to tackle head on the constant vitriolic attacks on our club, its players both present and former, (deceased included) and also the support. Songs like The Sash and Derry’s Walls have been sung at Ibrox since the late 40’s, not one of our enemies had a problem with them.

Now, vermin like Spiers, Keevins and McNee are continually stating that these songs have no place at a football match. Well, listen up, Norman, Spew and Tick Tock - these songs are part of our clubs history, they have as much right to be sung at our games as YNWA has at Anfield – the only difference is we’ve been singing ours for a hell of a lot longer.

Adding to the attacks on our club because of the Orange connection is another piece of jump-the-dyke vermin, ex-Celtic player, Davie Provan – Peace Process Provo as he’s otherwise known. This is the cockroach that once stated Gazza mimicking a flute (directly in front of the Rangers support) would bring danger to the Northern Irish peace process. What did SDM have to say about it? The square root of zilch – is anyone surprised?

And another thing! We bring out an Orange coloured strip but are slaughtered again from the media. Why? Because it’s Orange! You could not make it up. Again, SDM sat back and did nothing. Sorry, he did do something. He stopped the sale of it after less than a season. It’s utterly astonishing to think that the biggest selling Rangers strip of all time (it would still be making money to this day) is halted because SDM is too frightened to stand up to our clubs enemies – but that’s the sort of person who is running, sorry, that should read, ruining our club.

To give indication of how closely linked Rangers were/are to the Orange Order one only has to look at any Orange Parade either here on the mainland or over in Northern Ireland. Most of the onlookers are bedecked in the colours of our club – yes, there are some of the younger generation who let themselves down by overindulging in their alcohol consumption – and they follow the parades because it is the natural thing to do if you are a Rangers supporter; Unionist, Loyalist and Protestant.

We have a Rangers Accordian Band, normally found at the head of any parade such is the revere that they hold with the Orange Order - I’m sure somewhere in your house you’ll have LP’s or 45’s (most of these were manufactured in the 60’s & 70’s) with the Rangers name and crest emblazoned on the front cover, and with all our favourite Orange tunes (the play list) proudly on display on the back; Lily ‘O’, Green Grassy Slopes, Banks Of The Boyne etc… It is these pieces of nostalgia that need to and should be reproduced, but again it all comes down to SDM and his blatant dislike of Orangeism and it’s link to our club.

Perhaps the most sickening aspect of SDM’s tenure was the removal from office of one of his most trusted Directors, Donald Findlay QC – that’s right, Queen’s Counsel. Donald’s crime, according to SDM, was to indulge on July 1st 1999 at a Private Party (not that it should make any difference) in the singing of a couple of those songs mentioned beforehand: The Sash and Derry’s Walls.

Now if these songs are regarded as sectarian or bigoted as is widely reported in the gutter press, then why are flute bands allowed to play them unchallenged from the law of the land? I challenge anyone to find anything derogatory, sectarian or otherwise with these songs.

Contrast SDM’s attitude to that of Celtic’s mouthpiece, Peter Lawwell who defended (to the hilt) two of his players, Pearson and Hartson, when caught red handed singing and chanting songs in praise of the proscribed terrorist group and murderers of innocent women, children and British citizens, the IRA, at an official Celtic Supporters Rally in Letterkenny in the Irish Republic, where almost the entire Celtic Boardroom were in attendance. It puts things into perspective.

On to the support, and there is certainly a change within the rank and file at Ibrox from that which followed the team throughout the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and to a lesser extent the 90’s – those wanting to sing our songs of culture are virtually muted, the threat of expulsion and removal of season ticket hanging over them like the Sword of Damocles. No guesses at who’s to blame!!

Further indication of our owner’s attitude towards the support comes with his treatment of the band that plays at home games. Now the band may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but I can guarantee you that if they struck up a few lines of The Sash during one of the games the place would be rocking. Alas – yes, you’ve guessed it – SDM has warned them that if they dare to play the aforementioned tune then their position within Ibrox would be reviewed. Can you see a pattern emerging?

On the subject of bands, next time you’re out enjoying the spectacle of an Orange Parade, take note of how many bands you hear playing some of the Rangers’ favourites; Follow Follow, The Billy Boys (yes, that one) Wolverhampton Town etc.

To finish I’ll mention my own circumstances which further emphasises what I’ve been saying. My supporters club has had 5 Chairmen in the last 40+ years. Just one of those men has not been an Orangeman – no doubt there will be many other clubs with similar tales. On recent European travel with mates to Villarreal, Stuttgart, Barcelona and Manchester among others, the vast majority (upwards of 75%) of us were Orangemen.

To paint a clearer picture; 5 of us went to Villarreal, 6 to Stuttgart, 8 to Barcelona and 10 to Manchester. We are not ashamed of where we come from and what we are, on the contrary we are proud of our roots. These are facts that SDM should be facing up to and defending rather than trying to do our enemies job for them.

To me, the link between our club and the Orange scene is undeniable - it’ll be a sad day when we are not allowed to celebrate our culture. I fear that day is not too far away – and we don’t have to look too far to see why.

An article I enjoyed reading but one I'm one I'm not a convert to as I suppose I'd probably come under the handwringer umbrella so to speak - not that I'm bothered.

What do you make of it?

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/index.php?o...5&Itemid=26

What a load of self rightious pish!!!

Glasgow Rangers have fans from all over the world. How many of these fans have anything to do with the orange order? My thinking is not that many. I myself come from the west coast where there are no orange lodges or any possibility of their ever being one. Does that make me not worthy of being a Ger. Are there many orange lodges in other countries except central belt of Scotland and Northern Ireland? Very few i would imagine. Glasgow Rangers are one of the biggest names in world football and not a wee special club for that "15,000".

Now im not saying that any traditions have to stop. Yes be proud of your heritage and all that stuff that you feel that you have to do. But Rangers are for everyone. They are for supporters who love and care for their club rather than their own agendas. The mention of these songs being sung from the 40's is not a great arguament as we existed for 70 years before that. What about then.

We are all different...get over it.

trust me the orange order is world wide, from australia to the americas, from kenya to kirkaldy. do not underestimate the relationship between the orange order and rangers football club and its fans.

you have a right to disagree of course, but this is my opinion.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

it's called a discussion, sorry if you feel partonised and and shouted down but considering the original article brands 2/3 of our support as hand wringers and you seem to be accusing me of all sorts (for reasons best known to yourself) then what type of response do you think you , or the article deserves.

I would imagione you are refering to letters i have been told about on headed notepaper concerning the billy boys, if not and i am wrong i happily retract. The billy boys is still banned by uefa though........

Need to go now son, big Orange Lodge meeting coming up soon. And you're boring me to death now

Headed notepaper? Jeez oh!

Billy Boys is banned by UEFA is said with too much gusto and celebration to be said by a Bear in my opinion. Can you show us the proof of this? You see son, you open your mouth and spout drivel without having back up or proof. Just like the headed notepaper in fact.

Everything you've said points to one thing and I'll let others decide who's the Rangers man here.

Bye and thanks again for getting worked up about our article, there will be a lot more to come just for you

No wonder you run your mb the way you do because you don't seem to handle someone disagreeing with you very well. to think you were greeting about name calling a minute ago now you are calling me a tim........

How can a type a sentence with gusto and celebration that just said the billy boys has been banned,....that makes no sense at all.....

You show me the proof it hasn't been banned you make up the ridiculous accusation.,.....

If I recall correctly, you were called Token on Follow Follow and exposed as a Bheast True or false? You and Peter are Bheasts, of that there is no doubt. I'll leave it at that and let the Bears make up their own minds. You leave VB up to me son, it does OK without gormless no marks and Earl Haigs like you.

I don't really go in for online fights to be honest son, so I'll say cheerio and let you get on with pretending to be a Bear.

They hate Rangers more than they love Ra Sellik you know.

I was token on follow follow, as for the exposed as a "beast" well you better tell the guys that run the various rangers sites i have written articles for, which included follow follow fanzine.....

You don't seem to cope that well outside your wee bubble of VB where i presume you all agree with each other, there are rangers fans out there that don't think the way you do. Anyway like you i have no desire to debate anything with you as i know exactly who you were from follow follow as well and it's pointless, thankfully me and you are miles apart on our outlook on life. As i say i am happy to leave VB to you i have never visited your site and never intend to.

No hard feelings from me but you certainly seem to have retained some...ho hum.....

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

if cartman was TOKEN on the follow follow forum then he is an earl. and a scum bag to boot.

that c@nt wont remember me but i definatly know him.

Why would i remember you den......

[Dennis 1,011]

if cartman was TOKEN on the follow follow forum then he is an earl. and a scum bag to boot.

that c@nt wont remember me but i definatly know him.

Why would i remember you den......

read what it says t***.