Dingwell

[nemisis 358]

I agree the actual wording of the punishment is far from clear but the fine is:

"Rangers have been fined €19,500 and severely warned about their responsibility for any future misconduct by their fans in relation to sectarian and discriminatory behaviour."

The initial verdict also mentioned TBB specifically:

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/disciplinary/news/newsid=413514.html#reasons+rangers+decision

Yes and the intial verdict and fine has nothing to do with singing of TBB.

[nemisis 358]

Well, it is obviously meant to be part of the text of the letter divulged to the club's official supporters' group.

I don't know if it is genuine and wouldn't begin to try and persuade anyone given I can't prove it. Which is why the it would be agreeable that the actual letter was in the public domain via the official club website.

I've personally asked for a copy of the letter from both the club and UEFA and it has not been forthcoming which I find puzzling.

And like I said intially given the anti Rangers agenda by some, "journalists", notably the odious creep, if such a letter did actually exist it would without a shadow of a doubt made its way into the public domain by now.

[Frankie 505]

That reads to me as if they are saying that fine is specifically not about TBB.

Like I say it's unclear.

The initial case was brought against the club specifically because of TBB. As such, it's not a great leap to suggest that song's lyrics was what we were (eventually) fined for on appeal by Kapl.

Did UEFA then ban it? Or did the club for fear of further censure?

I don't know but the club say they did and it is up to the individual whether or not to believe them. It's impossible to prove either way unless the club published the actual document which they should do when they're asking fans to refrain from singing specific songs.

[RFC55 109,152]

Well, it is obviously meant to be part of the text of the letter divulged to the club's official supporters' group.

I don't know if it is genuine and wouldn't begin to try and persuade anyone given I can't prove it. Which is why the it would be agreeable that the actual letter was in the public domain via the official club website.

I've personally asked for a copy of the letter from both the club and UEFA and it has not been forthcoming which I find puzzling.

According to gunslinger that would be definitive proof that the ban exists.

At least you accept it may not be 100% accurate mate.

I couldnt tell you, but as we are discussing this Frankie surely Rangers could end all speculation and just post the bloody letter either to ST holders or the more sensible way and put it on the homepage?

[Frankie 505]

Yes and the intial verdict and fine has nothing to do with singing of TBB.

The initial verdict was with regard to the hooliganism with the singing of TBB not punished.

Kapl appealed that decision and UEFA changed their mind. Thus, TBB was eventually punished - not sure what other conclusion can be reached there.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

It's highly unlikely that the letter exists.

[Frankie 505]

And like I said intially given the anti Rangers agenda by some, "journalists", notably the odious creep, if such a letter did actually exist it would without a shadow of a doubt made its way into the public domain by now.

I'd agree with that. It's a surprise that it hasn't if it exists.

[RFC55 109,152]

It's highly unlikely that the letter exists.

TWB shares the same theory as many on this board, im away to lie down

[Frankie 505]

According to gunslinger that would be definitive proof that the ban exists.

At least you accept it may not be 100% accurate mate.

I couldnt tell you, but as we are discussing this Frankie surely Rangers could end all speculation and just post the bloody letter either to ST holders or the more sensible way and put it on the homepage?

Yes. I don't know why the club haven't published it.

Perhaps they feel because official supporters groups (plus independent ones such as the Trust and others) have had sight of the letter, that is enough public laundering of a damaging subject.

I personally disagree.

[Orangeclement 570]

How else do we get answers when he censors his site at the mere mention of subjects like this?

We can ask on Gersnet,VB,RM,UB and FF

The only forum that will stifle the debate is FF and you will be banned for asking it.

the answer you seek was in my post , you man the fuck up and speak to his face .

Would you answer snidey fucking comments on a website ? i wouldn't and i bet you wouldn't either.....

[RFC55 109,152]

Yes. I don't know why the club haven't published it.

Perhaps they feel because official supporters groups (plus independent ones such as the Trust and others) have had sight of the letter, that is enough public laundering of a damaging subject.

I personally disagree.

Yes Frankie i would also disagree. Surely someone on one of the boards either here or FF or any other forum can say yes i have seen it and have a copy and publish it. I mean something this big you would imagine someone, somewhere has a copy. Or does SDM just flash in a sort of teasing manner?

I can say to you, i read a letter calling the Queen a whore but does that mean i really did? Its just so flimsy in my eyes.

[Adoniram 1,919]

the answer you seek was in my post , you man the fuck up and speak to his face .

Would you answer snidey fucking comments on a website ? i wouldn't and i bet you wouldn't either.....

You don't think we have tried this?

He will not meet up despite numerous requests to do so and hides behind the anonymity of his website.

The more people that get to know about his antics the better our support will be.

[MisterC 12,287]

I just don't see what all the fuss is about

[RFC55 109,152]

I just don't see what all the fuss is about

You would think we could just all....

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

What disciplinary letters have the club ever published.

the clubs outlook on this will be they have banned it from the stadium anyway so what do they need to explain ? I'm not really sure why people think the club are lying.....

As for dingwall and co. , how does anyone who knows anything about them think they would pass up the chance to expose Sir David if he asked them to lie...and then kept quiet about it for so long. There were quite a few supporters reps briefed at the time so they must all be liars as well......

[Orangeclement 570]

You don't think we have tried this?

He will not meet up despite numerous requests to do so and hides behind the anonymity of his website.

The more people that get to know about his antics the better our support will be.

fair enough , although this point was made in the numerous threads about this letter and it gets nowhere as the usual name slinging starts , pointless IMO but i don't moderate the site so looks like i'll have to put up with these every so often

[Guest therabbitt]

Can someone fill me in with what we are talking about here?

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

at the supporters meeting where it was announced that the billy boys was banned mark dingwall and various other supporters group leaders said they had seen a letter from UEFA confirming this.

People want to believe it's not true so are now refusing to believe them

[Adoniram 1,919]

at the supporters meeting where it was announced that the billy boys was banned mark dingwall and various other supporters group leaders said they had seen a letter from UEFA confirming this.

People want to believe it's not true so are now refusing to believe them

A deliberate twist in the words i see.

People simply want to get to the truth...a tad different to what you have posted.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

A deliberate twist in the words i see.

People simply want to get to the truth...a tad different to what you have posted.

hmmmm.....

[2bob 3]

Well, it is obviously meant to be part of the text of the letter divulged to the club's official supporters' group.

I don't know if it is genuine and wouldn't begin to try and persuade anyone given I can't prove it. Which is why the it would be agreeable that the actual letter was in the public domain via the official club website.

I've personally asked for a copy of the letter from both the club and UEFA and it has not been forthcoming which I find puzzling.

The reason it is not forthcoming is because it doesn't exist, there is no other sane reason, to not publish something that definitively sets out the parameters is insane and disingenuous.

[FTP 3]

What is the full script with Dingwall?

[lockerroom 0]

I sent four leeters to Fifa and Uefa asking for a copy of this so called "legitimate" leeter banning Rangers fans from singing TBB.

What was reffered to in the ban was the FTP and "feni.an".

Also, there was an official e mail from a fifa rep stating that they do not wish to deal with the "sectarian" problem anymore and that the SFA should deal with any further matters. I would like to emphasise this part "....in scottish prem games or euro games"

The e mail was posted on here on more than one occassion. I'm sure others will remember it.

Basically, Rangers cover their backsides by telling the fans not to sing what is deemed "sectarian" or "offensive" and plugging the "No to racism" and such like, they are seen as doing what they can do to stop what is considered offensive. So they can't fine Rangers again as Fifa/Uefa want nothing to do with it anymore.

They were harrassed into punishing Rangers for something so they do not want to be in that situation again unless it is something very serious which would involve violence or something extreme.

Rangers HAVE to announce not to sing "sectarian or offensive" chants/songs.

Just don't sing FTP or say "fen.ian" in the song. Final note. It was said that feni.an was offensive. So is H*n. But uefa deemed, in the e mail "H*n" not offensive. It is a friendly term for the rivals of another club."

The e mail from uefa was posted by watp1872.

No answer came to the request for said copy of letter sent to Rangers saying TBB was banned. AS far as I have learned, it was sectarian or offensive words that were actually banned. Not the song.

[gunslinger 270]

about not only seeing a letter stating the BIlly Boys is banned but misrepresentation of funds?

c,mon now I am callin g you out-show us the letter in all its glory and/or step down from the RST-on both counts

he only saw the letter he didnt see the content. it could have said anything.

if hes saying otherwise now he has changed his tune.

he does believe it is banned though.

[BEARGER 339]

about not only seeing a letter stating the BIlly Boys is banned but misrepresentation of funds?

c,mon now I am callin g you out-show us the letter in all its glory and/or step down from the RST-on both counts

Another laptop hardman, eh? Please tell us about the "misrepresentation" of funds whatever that is.