Dingwell

[kplfishtank 4,657]

name, names because i know a few of the guys at the meeting and none of them mentioned seeing this "letter"

[gunslinger 270]

mark told me that he was sitting two down from murray as he read the letter. he could see it was from uefa but not the content.

to my knowledge noone else has seen it either but hes the only one i have spoken to about it.

[gunslinger 270]

name, names because i know a few of the guys at the meeting and none of them mentioned seeing this "letter"

i am almost certain they didn't and i doubt md is saying he did.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

i am almost certain they didn't and i doubt md is saying he did.

So does the possibility exist gunslinger that Rangers have received a letter from UEFA outlining various findings/instructions from UEFA (much as per Lockeroom's excellent post), and that such a letter has been shown to various supporters representatives, though not the content - and all those supporter representatives were made aware of is SDM's interpretation of its content ?

[kplfishtank 4,657]

So does the possibility exist gunslinger that Rangers have received a letter from UEFA outlining various findings/instructions from UEFA (much as per Lockeroom's excellent post), and that such a letter has been shown to various supporters representatives, though not the content - and all those supporter representatives were made aware of is SDM's interpretation of its content ?

or mr dingwall has colluded with moonbeams for his own holy grail-a seat on the board, for that most men would say/see anything

[gunslinger 270]

So does the possibility exist gunslinger that Rangers have received a letter from UEFA outlining various findings/instructions from UEFA (much as per Lockeroom's excellent post), and that such a letter has been shown to various supporters representatives, though not the content - and all those supporter representatives were made aware of is SDM's interpretation of its content ?

certainly.

but theirs no evidence of it.

[gunslinger 270]

or mr dingwall has colluded with moonbeams for his own holy grail-a seat on the board, for that most men would say/see anything

is that not the direction the rst were going in before he siezed control to stop it.

i would say your a million miles from the truth there.

him and murray dont see eye to eye.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

certainly.

but theirs no evidence of it.

Well thats not strictly true. If we were somehow to get all the supporters reps who were present to tell us what happened then we have greater insight to this mysterious set of events.

[gunslinger 270]

Well thats not strictly true. If we were somehow to get all the supporters reps who were present to tell us what happened then we have greater insight to this mysterious set of events.

i think this thread prooves even if every one of them confirmed murrays version of events we would still be no further forward.

even assuming the guy who wrote to uefa is right the songs still banned.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

i think this thread prooves even if every one of them confirmed murrays version of events we would still be no further forward.

even assuming the guy who wrote to uefa is right the songs still banned.

How do you arrive at that assumption ?

From what Lockeroom has said and what I have seen and read on UEFA's findings its conduct which is discriminatory towards Catholics which we were fined for.

If part of that fine includes the singing of TBB - then its for utilising the word fenian in the lyrics and the song or the tune itself is not banned - which has been suggested in some of these threads.

[gunslinger 270]

How do you arrive at that assumption ?

From what Lockeroom has said and what I have seen and read on UEFA's findings its conduct which is discriminatory towards Catholics which we were fined for.

If part of that fine includes the singing of TBB - then its for utilising the word fenian in the lyrics and the song or the tune itself is not banned - which has been suggested in some of these threads.

the song contains the word fenian and thats not likley to change anytime soon.

[bluepeter 5,627]

How do you arrive at that assumption ?

From what Lockeroom has said and what I have seen and read on UEFA's findings its conduct which is discriminatory towards Catholics which we were fined for.

If part of that fine includes the singing of TBB - then its for utilising the word fenian in the lyrics and the song or the tune itself is not banned - which has been suggested in some of these threads.

Which then relies on the utterly untrue "fenians = catholics" definition.

[MisterC 12,287]

Dingwall wishes he was privy to info such as this, no way should anyone of sound mind let him near anything to do with the running of the club as if the actions of the RST is anything to go by.

[MisterC 12,287]

Which then relies on the utterly untrue "fenians = catholics" definition.

I wonder if the other lot will sing Pat McCourts fenian army in european competition next season? If so I would like to think action will follow if anything happens to us.

[bluepeter 5,627]

I wonder if the other lot will sing Pat McCourts fenian army in european competition next season? If so I would like to think action will follow if anything happens to us.

Ach, they're just singing it for the craic. And it's political. And they're the greatest fans in the world.

[MisterC 12,287]

Ach, they're just singing it for the craic. And it's political. And they're the greatest fans in the world.

Of course, apologies BP, how right you are. It was remiss of me to forget this!

[gunslinger 270]

Which then relies on the utterly untrue "fenians = catholics" definition.

trouble with that is plenty of people do mean catholic. ive seen people shouting it at nuns who could easily have been rangers fans.

their wont be a priest in this country who hasnt been called a fenian despite at lteast one being a season ticket holder at ibrox.

this debate lacks honesty at times.. which isnt helpful. thats why i was at pains to point out dingwalls actual stance on the letter despite the fact it does my standpoint no favours.

[bluepeter 5,627]

trouble with that is plenty of people do mean catholic. ive seen people shouting it at nuns who could easily have been rangers fans.

their wont be a priest in this country who hasnt been called a fenian despite at lteast one being a season ticket holder at ibrox.

this debate lacks honesty at times.. which isnt helpful. thats why i was at pains to point out dingwalls actual stance on the letter despite the fact it does my standpoint no favours.

I'm sure some people do mistake the terms. You can't convict someone on what you believe they are meaning by a well-defined term. Otherwise you could arrest people for singing "Happy Birthday" if you decide they mean "I hate catholics."

You can't redefine the term because some people are confused by it, and a conviction would require demonstration that the term fenian meant catholic to the person who was singing it.

[gunslinger 270]

I'm sure some people do mistake the terms. You can't convict someone on what you believe they are meaning by a well-defined term. Otherwise you could arrest people for singing "Happy Birthday" if you decide they mean "I hate catholics."

You can't redefine the term because some people are confused by it, and a conviction would require demonstration that the term fenian meant catholic to the person who was singing it.

no they arent confused. they mean catholics. when they say fenian bastard they mean catholic bastard.

and its plenty of people.

kidding on its not gets us nowhere.

[bluepeter 5,627]

no they arent confused. they mean catholics. when they say fenian bastard they mean catholic bastard.

and its plenty of people.

kidding on its not gets us nowhere.

The court has to show that the person they are attempting to convict meant the incorrect definition of the word.

[gunslinger 270]

The court has to show that the person they are attempting to convict meant the incorrect definition of the word.

no they dont.

[AMMS 27]

The court has to show that the person they are attempting to convict meant the incorrect definition of the word.

I don't think that's the point the poster is making. Whether a court needs to prove it or not doesn't detract from the fact that a lot of people use the word fenian as a substitute for catholic. To pretend otherwise doesn't help the debate.

[MisterC 12,287]

no they dont.

Cases have to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt

[bluepeter 5,627]

no they dont.

To prove the person was indulging in anti-catholic behaviour (which is where this part of the conversation originated)? Yes they do.

[bluepeter 5,627]

I don't think that's the point the poster is making. Whether a court needs to prove it or not doesn't detract from the fact that a lot of people use the word fenian as a substitute for catholic. To pretend otherwise doesn't help the debate.

With due respect, he was responding directly to my post which said:

Which then relies on the utterly untrue "fenians = catholics" definition.

He refuted this by claiming some mean catholic. I agreed that some do, then posted what I posted. His point is an attempt at a counter-point to mine, so I don't think my post was misplaced.