I see Jim McColl Clyde Blowers is backing snp ?

[papaguy51 912]

I applied for their graduate scheme as well.

I was not aware of this

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

Italy has NO loss of sovereignty by being in the Euro

Of course.

Italy has a government appointed by other countries and yet has no loss of sovereignty. They aren't even running their own country.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

No I am Scottish and your inane ramblings are the best advert possible for disentanglement, whilst remaining within the Union.

You are of course British - I'd check your passport for confirmation.

And, what's that? You want to remain within the Union?

What kind of fucking independence drive is this?

[77amurai 258]

You are of course British - I'd check your passport for confirmation.

And, what's that? You want to remain within the Union?

What kind of fucking independence drive is this?

a half baked one. Sound familiar?

[MaddistonKnight 1,567]

An excellent and lucid non appraisal of people shittin themselves, sort of like the Basque separatists meet John Wayne, they wouldn't meet a Scot apparently we are to stupid to be let out on our own never mind run our own hoose , wonder what Carnegie and countless other Scots who shaped the world make or would make of that infantile and insulting pejorative.

Never mentioned the intelligence or otherwise of any Scot, so don't know were you got that from.

The Basque Separatists and John Wayne?

Carnegie, as did many other good Scots, left this hoose and made their money. Was it because of the Union of the Crowns and of Parliaments, or a wish to make a better life for themselves. Probably the latter.

I am generally happy with the system we are in, so I support the Union. If we seceeded from the Union, I would be extremely concerned as to how we would budget the running of Scotland in the way it is at the moment. I am simply unconvinced of your argument, and you don't like it.

And you then throw in an insult for good measure. In saying that, I am unsure you can have an insulting pejorative, as a pejorative term is usually one which is aimed as an insult, for example a tartan trannie.

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

The wee fat bug-eyed tosspot known as 'Wee Eck' (rhymes with 'feck') has gained more weight during the last few years of his Scottish Nazi Party government than he has support for independence. There's many a table been cleared by the 'Fist Munster' and many a wee dram been swallied by 'Wee Eck' as he's whored it and toured it around the so-called movers and shakers in and out of Scotland.

The recent launch of the 'Yes' campaign had an ex-Glasgow derby & trent thespian, now living in Hollywood, an ex-Edinburgh milkman, now living in any tax-exile country that'll have him (Oh yesssssh he issssssh) and now we've got Jim 'can-pay-won't-pay-UK-taxes' McCrawl jumping onto Wee Eck's bandwagon....a wagon that has only one wheel and even that's got a flat tyre.

Maybe the 'Fist Munster' could use some of £'billionaire Jim's bish-bosh to go to a private hospital (can't use the British NHS one's....that wouldn't be kosher) to get his head straightened - every time I see his fat wee face on TV he's always got his fat napper tilted to the right.

Is it too heavy? Perhaps all those free lunches have taken their toll on his flabby neck muscles?

Perhaps he's trying to tell the watching nation something in a subliminal manner?

Possibly he's got more in common with David Cameron that he lets on.

Both lean to the right of centre.

[ray 105]

You are of course British - I'd check your passport for confirmation.

And, what's that? You want to remain within the Union?

What kind of fucking independence drive is this?

Probably the same one as any good neighbour would make, as for British you do know that there has never been agreement at to whither British is a nationality or a conglomerate irrespective of what your citizens passport says.

A British citizen is not a member of a nation, Scots, Welsh, English and Northern Irish are, check the British Nationality act of 1981 explains it succinctly.

[ray 105]

Never mentioned the intelligence or otherwise of any Scot, so don't know were you got that from.

The Basque Separatists and John Wayne?

Carnegie, as did many other good Scots, left this hoose and made their money. Was it because of the Union of the Crowns and of Parliaments, or a wish to make a better life for themselves. Probably the latter.

I am generally happy with the system we are in, so I support the Union. If we seceeded from the Union, I would be extremely concerned as to how we would budget the running of Scotland in the way it is at the moment. I am simply unconvinced of your argument, and you don't like it.

And you then throw in an insult for good measure. In saying that, I am unsure you can have an insulting pejorative, as a pejorative term is usually one which is aimed as an insult, for example a tartan trannie.

I wouldn't waste time insulting you, you would take it as a compliment.

[MrSifter 181]

Jim McColl can't have lived in Scotland very long if he thinks it is a country that will have a government enacting policies to help business and cut general dependency on the state.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Of course.

Italy has a government appointed by other countries and yet has no loss of sovereignty. They aren't even running their own country.

I dont know where you get this pish that Italy has a Government appointed by other countries. I may not be great on current affairs but thats a story I have missed - a link would be appreciated.

And they do have their own sovereignty - they could pull out of the EU / Euro if it suited them (which it does not)

Scotland on the other hand does not have that same right of self determination but Independence will give us that!

[MaddistonKnight 1,567]

I wouldn't waste time insulting you, you would take it as a compliment.

Oooft! you win.

[ray 105]

Oooft! you win.

Naw naw an honourable draw.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

I dont know where you get this pish that Italy has a Government appointed by other countries. I may not be great on current affairs but thats a story I have missed - a link would be appreciated.

And they do have their own sovereignty - they could pull out of the EU / Euro if it suited them (which it does not)

Scotland on the other hand does not have that same right of self determination but Independence will give us that!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8895003/New-Italian-government-does-not-include-a-single-elected-politician.html

Italy has a right to self-determination does it? Italy will have to get permission from it's appointed masters before it does anything. The government, that is, without a single, elected politician on board.

Suck it up, BP9 - you're wrong. Again.

[BEARGER 339]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8895003/New-Italian-government-does-not-include-a-single-elected-politician.html

Italy has a right to self-determination does it? Italy will have to get permission from it's appointed masters before it does anything. The government, that is, without a single, elected politician on board.

Suck it up, BP9 - you're wrong. Again.

Think you should read the article properly. Italy does has self determination, its has an elected parliament.

[MrSifter 181]

Think you should read the article properly. Italy does has self determination, its has an elected parliament.

An elected parliament that can't select its own government.

[MaddistonKnight 1,567]

Naw naw an honourable draw.

Sir, you are a tease

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

http://www.telegraph...politician.html

Italy has a right to self-determination does it? Italy will have to get permission from it's appointed masters before it does anything. The government, that is, without a single, elected politician on board.

Suck it up, BP9 - you're wrong. Again.

Where the fk in this article is any support for your asumption that the Italian government was appointed by another - or other countries - the appointment of a 'technocrat' government (as I understand it) is the way they have decided to handle the interim power vacumn after Berlusconi resigned - its their own procedures for handling this power vacumn and is fully supported by the politicians.

No where is there any reference to Monti being appointed by anyone but the Italian President - ( much like our Queen asked Cameron to form this Government!)

It seems you farted and the usual shite came out - only slightly wetter than normal.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

Think you should read the article properly. Italy does has self determination, its has an elected parliament.

"The emergency administration, which is meant to govern Italy until elections are due in 2013, is made up of bankers, lawyers and university professors but not a single elected official – an extraordinary development for a Western democracy."

There's much more to the story than covered in that article alone. If you're aware of it at all, then you would know how it came to be that Italy is presided over by appointed (non-elected) technocrats.

When did self-determination provide for unelected governments? Is this a policy the SNP are planning to implement?

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

An elected parliament that can't select its own government.

I think you're onto something here.

It does sound a lot like something the SNP would cook up.

[ray 105]

I think you're onto something here.

It does sound a lot like something the SNP would cook up.

Sounds a lot like haud it an daud it at westmidden aka slippery and cleggy.

[theiconicman 2,992]

It is strange that some argue that Italy has more self determination than Scotland because it can remove itself from Europe whenever it wishes, when Scotland is effectively doing the same with the Union. What's the difference?

We are part of a Union, one in which we Scots have played important roles within. MPs from Scotland have held some of the highest posts in this Union, so quite where the argument that we have no say in our future comes from is beyond me. If there is a failing of MPs to engage with our populace, that is not a failing of the Union but of politicians. Independence would not solve this.

I see absolutely no argument, either economical nor moral that says being independent of the UK but beholden to the EU is any better than the UK being tied to EU. Unless Alex Salmond is suggesting we remain independent of the EU too? No, didn't think so.

We would be trading down in terms of our influence, very far down, what would be the point? Look at the world stage, name me the important countries and then tell me what they all have in common.

I'll give you a clue, it's not GDPs < £150bn (UK GDP is £2.5 trillion)

[stevie1984 18]

It is strange that some argue that Italy has more self determination than Scotland because it can remove itself from Europe whenever it wishes, when Scotland is effectively doing the same with the Union. What's the difference?

We are part of a Union, one in which we Scots have played important roles within. MPs from Scotland have held some of the highest posts in this Union, so quite where the argument that we have no say in our future comes from is beyond me. If there is a failing of MPs to engage with our populace, that is not a failing of the Union but of politicians. Independence would not solve this.

I see absolutely no argument, either economical nor moral that says being independent of the UK but beholden to the EU is any better than the UK being tied to EU. Unless Alex Salmond is suggesting we remain independent of the EU too? No, didn't think so.

We would be trading down in terms of our influence, very far down, what would be the point? Look at the world stage, name me the important countries and then tell me what they all have in common.

I'll give you a clue, it's not GDPs < £150bn (UK GDP is £2.5 trillion)

Thats a good post in amongst all the blether, but i would say there is a big difference of being part the EU and being part of the Union. The main one being the Union was formed through force and not with the backing of the majority of Scotland.

The terms of being part of the EU will be negotiated by politicians, not by an English king who just happened to have a bigger army, not forgetting the amount of treachery from fellow Scots that enabled the forming of this great partnership with england.

Its not a separation, its a returning to a natural state for our country. A state of independence.

I agree though about the politicians, they are all self serving cunts.

[shirob1213 163]

Why won't salmond and his cronies answer the serious questions they are asked regarding an independent scotlands economy,defence,jobs,welfare etc etc.their reply is to attack the uk govenment or whoever is asking the question.and why is the snp wasting £100,000 challenging the court decision ordering it say if ministers asked for legal advice regarding eu membership,what is the so called open and transparent snp government hiding.my personal view is the snp never thought they would be in a position to hold a referendum and are now fucking shittin it that they might have to go through with it.

[theiconicman 2,992]

Thats a good post in amongst all the blether, but i would say there is a big difference of being part the EU and being part of the Union. The main one being the Union was formed through force and not with the backing of the majority of Scotland.

The terms of being part of the EU will be negotiated by politicians, not by an English king who just happened to have a bigger army, not forgetting the amount of treachery from fellow Scots that enabled the forming of this great partnership with england.

Its not a separation, its a returning to a natural state for our country. A state of independence.

I agree though about the politicians, they are all self serving cunts.

Hate to be rude but your argument for independence is based on Braveheart history. Regardless of how it was formed (and it wasn't by battle but rather by a historical banking crisis, sound familiar?) we all enjoy the same benefits in the UK, regardless of where we live.

At a time when the world is moving truly global, with the internet breaking down international boundaries, we Scots are looking back 300 years and wanting to return to a backwater.

The world is slowly merging and the winners in that merge will be those with the most influence to guide it. I don't see any argument of independence that improves our worldwide influence.

And finally, we would be making an economic enemy in the rest of the UK and we would be the weaker party in that fight.

[stevie1984 18]

Hate to be rude but your argument for independence is based on Braveheart history. Regardless of how it was formed (and it wasn't by battle but rather by a historical banking crisis, sound familiar?) we all enjoy the same benefits in the UK, regardless of where we live.

At a time when the world is moving truly global, with the internet breaking down international boundaries, we Scots are looking back 300 years and wanting to return to a backwater.

The world is slowly merging and the winners in that merge will be those with the most influence to guide it. I don't see any argument of independence that improves our worldwide influence.

And finally, we would be making an economic enemy in the rest of the UK and we would be the weaker party in that fight.

Its not rude, its just wrong. You think i would post on the subject on the back of watching Braveheart? The Union has been kept in place through many a battle and desire of english monarchy. The rich doing deals with each other for their own benefit, without the consent of the majority. All through history Scotland has fell in and out with the idea of a union. This is the first time that a true reflection of the peoples opinion can be heard and acted upon.

The sad fact is, i think you are right about the snp, and they would just be happier with more powers and if it all goes wrong they still have the default position to blame Westminster.

Half of Scottish land is owned by foreigners, and im not talking about the english. Its time we took it back.