Reconstruction to fail?.

[Auldbear 7]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/hibs-boss-fenlon-stop-the-league-reform-talks-now.1365706811

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/vote-bullying-is-about-self-interest-insists-east-fife-chair.20763137

Hope they work not done it before.

[RFC55 108,962]

Hibs boss Fenlon: stop the league reform talks now

Hibernian manager Pat Fenlon says the clock should be stopped on league reconstruction talks for this season as bosses run out of time to prepare their squads for a new set-up.

The 12 Scottish Premier League teams are due to hold a vote on plans for 12-12-18 structure on Monday, while the lower league sides from the Scottish Football League will have their say on the following Friday.

But there is already uncertainty on whether the proposals - which also lay out hopes for a combined league body and a fairer share of cash among Scotland's clubs - will get enough backing.

St Mirren say they will vote no in the SPL ballot and, with an 11-1 majority needed, Ross County's doubts could yet cause the scheme to collapse.

In the SFL, meanwhile, a recent informal vote saw the clubs split down the middle on whether or not to proceed with a new set-up next term.

As for Fenlon, he believes league bosses and club chairman have had long enough to sort out the mess.

He said: "It's dragged on a bit long to be honest. The vote should have been a good while ago to give people time to digest it.

"If it's not going to happen it would have been good to have the time to look at other ways to help the game.

"So the current situation is not ideal but it's where we are. We have to deal with that as clubs and managers.

"I don't know the full process of what went on but if you are making changes I think the decisions should be taken a little bit earlier so they can can make adjustments. Now we are at the tail end of the season, it's not leaving us with a lot of time to prepare."

Fenlon's focus in the short-term, however, is not on league business but on taking care of Irn-Bru First Division side Falkirk in Saturday's William Hill Scottish Cup semi-final clash.

The game comes just 11 months after the Edinburgh side's last trip to Hampden Park, when they were humiliated with in a 5-1 cup final defeat to city rivals Hearts.

But the Irishman insists he has not said a word about that derby disaster to his players and will instead tell them to think back to their last-four win over Aberdeen last term if they need inspiration from the past.

He said: "I said after the final last year that there was nothing I could do about the defeat at that point. It was done and dusted.

"My mind is now focused on leading this club to another cup final. That's all I'm thinking about. We just need to go to Hampden and give it our best.

"I haven't spoke to the players about it or anyone else since then. It wasn't nice. We had to take it on the chin and move on.

"If you are looking for a memory to fall back on, then last year's semi-final was a great occasion for us. That is something we want to replicate again and book ourselves another big day out."

Hibs' defeat at Celtic Park last weekend ended hopes of a Clydesdale Bank Premier League top-six place, quite a fall from grace considering they topped the table in November.

But with a trophy still up for grabs, a European slot at stake and the possibility of a seventh-place finish, Fenlon insists the Leith men's season is far from over.

"I believe the team has made big strides this year but that is for other people to judge," said the boss, whose side finished last season second bottom.

"Both on and off the park, there is a genuine better feeling around the club. But there is still a lot to play for - we could reach a cup final, qualify for Europe and finish seventh in the league.

"Given what happened last year, then that would be a big improvement."

[RFC55 108,962]

Vote 'bullying' is about self interest, insists East Fife chair

The Dingwall club hold the fate of the 12-18-18 proposal in their hands after chairman Stewart Gilmour announced that St Mirren would be voting against the scheme. In the 11-1 voting system, another 'no' vote from MacGregor, who has fundamental concerns about the proposed mid-season split's effect on season ticket sales, would be enough to veto the reconstruction plans.

Supporters of the scheme have been canvassing hard, with Stephen Thompson, the Dundee United chairman, stating: "I feel strongly that Monday's meeting presents all of us with an opportunity for change that is simply too good to miss."

Collumbine believes that MacGregor will come under even more pressure to join the 'yes' camp in the coming days as the vote nears but insists that a "flawed" reconstruction is doomed to failure. "It is bullying, there is no question about that," said Collumbine. "But [Gilmour and MacGregor] are both honourable people and strong people and I would expect them to stick to their guns and listen to their supporters.

"I think reconstruction will be off the table by the time the SPL meeting ends on Monday. I am all for coming together, but not for rushing something through for the start of next season when there are many questions to be answered. You can't move the goalposts at this stage, it is unfair."

Collumbine is steadfast in his insistence that East Fife will not vote for the proposals, even if the plan scrapes through the Scottish Premier League vote and goes to the Scottish Football League for consideration next Friday. Having seen the finer details, he is adamant clubs in the second and third division will be cut adrift and is not surprised that, at the last SFL meeting, there was a 14-14 split among the member clubs.

"I keep hearing people say: 'This is not about ourselves, it is about looking after Scottish football," said Collumbine. "I beg to differ. A lot of clubs in the first division were against reconstruction until they saw the zeroes on the page. Just like the SPL, the clubs are all living above their means.

"Reconstruction might save one or two clubs up there, but they will discard the second and third division and that is a major flaw. Make no mistake, they are looking after themselves and this is a takeover rather than a merger."

[Auldbear 7]

Cheers for that Rfc52.

[RFC55 108,962]

Cheers for that Rfc52.

Cheers for that Rfc52.

No problem mate. I know you old bears do well enough switching the computer on

[CalvinC 1,414]

Said it before but it really is a daft idea.

[72barca 1,788]

Collumbine -

"Reconstruction might save one or two clubs up there, but they will discard the second and third division and that is a major flaw. Make no mistake, they are looking after themselves and this is a takeover rather than a merger."

Oh that the rest of the SFL clubs had this level of lucidity.

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

It is a fucking stupid idea. What club would be happy to play 22 games then go to ZERO points?

What about the people who have bought tickets and have turned up to all of they 22 games to see there team go to ZERO points?

Poitless and it could only happen with cunts like Neil Doncaster involved. The guy is a right clown and should be chased out of football altogether.

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

What a shower of utter shite Scottish football is. The so called "premier league" don't have a sponsor don't have any money and tried to reconstruct a league half way through a season which would mean anyone who wins promotion wouldn't get promoted.

It is coming to the end of the season and still no one knows what league they will be in or what it's called or who even sponsors it.

Too busy pulling the Rangers CEO up for something he said 8 months ago.

[the goal machine 7,803]

The funny thing is if Celtic and Aberdeen hadn't voted against changing the 11-1 voting structure then St Mirren and Ross County being against reconstruction wouldn't have mattered at all. Now they're trying to pressure them because they need their votes!

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

ABERDEEN chief Stewart Milne last night warned Ross County supremo Roy MacGregor that jobs will be lost if he votes against league reconstruction.

The Dons owner made a rare public appearance to launch a passionate plea for changing to a 12-12-18 structure.

It came as Inverness Caley Thistle chairman Kenny Cameron also begged rebel clubs not to scupper the vote.

County hold the key to getting the plans through as there must be an 11-1 majority — and St Mirren have already vowed to vote ‘no’.

Milne, one of several SPL chairman who have been in talks with MacGregor in recent days, warned: “The consequences of this not going through are bad. There are jobs on the line for everyone. If Scottish football continues to go downhill it will have serious consequences beyond individual clubs.

“If this doesn’t go through there is every prospect the game will continue to decline and it’ll probably accelerate.

“Everyone with an interest in Scottish football has to act. It’s for everyone’s benefit that we have to put our heads on the line.

“If you have a desire to see Scottish football improve then we have to get together and make it happen.”

Milne has been speaking to MacGregor, who will hold talks with his board tonight on the subject.

And he PRAISED the Staggies chairman for the way he has handled things but the Dons owner was less complimentary about St Mirren’s Stewart Gilmour, who has done a U-turn and opposed the plan so late in the day.

He said: “Roy and Ross County will make up their own minds. I respect him and the way he’s handled this.

“He will come to the meeting on Monday, listen to the arguments and eventually he’ll make up his mind.

“For me, that’s the way it should be done.

“I’m not having a go at Stewart Gilmour personally but I think St Mirren have handled this badly.

“They should have had the courtesy to go to the meeting on Monday, listen to the arguments and if they still have concerns then make up their minds then.”

St Mirren have cited their opposition to the 11-1 voting structure — the mechanism they are using to try and sink the plans — as a reason they can’t vote ‘yes’.

Milne claimed it was only when the Buddies released a statement on Monday that he became aware of voting being an issue.

He said: “At the meeting held on December 3, Stewart’s only concern was about cash flow for the middle section of the league.Voting hadn’t been an issue when we worked through the whole thing.

“If he’s going to hang his hat on the voting issue it doesn’t say a great deal for Stewart’s interest or St Mirren’s interest for Scottish football.”

Caley chief Cameron also urged County and St Mirren not to stand in the way of chance.

He said: “This is not a pick and mix vote.

“Attempting to be selective at this stage of the process is not an option.

“Change is something that’s been continually thwarted in Scottish football.

“If the SPL gets its fingers burned this time, having come such a long way, then my fear is that it may be years before we come so close again.”

[the goal machine 7,803]

Scaremongering pish.

[ForeverBlue_Since91 2,895]

I don't see why people like Stewart Milne thinks this is going to improve Scottish football?

[CalvinC 1,414]

It is a fucking stupid idea. What club would be happy to play 22 games then go to ZERO points?

What about the people who have bought tickets and have turned up to all of they 22 games to see there team go to ZERO points?

Poitless and it could only happen with cunts like Neil Doncaster involved. The guy is a right clown and should be chased out of football altogether.

Aye that is my main point about it. Absolute fucking numbnuts seriously.

[CalvinC 1,414]

I don't even think Doncaster watches fitbaw, the cunt is clueless.

[sprotson11 147]

Maybe their board meeting tomorrow to discuss tonights meeting then?

Just thought I heard something about Friday on the radio.

That would make sense.

I don't hold my breath for a no vote. The fans may be against it, but anti rangers opinions may prevail

[sprotson11 147]

Collumbine -

"Reconstruction might save one or two clubs up there, but they will discard the second and third division and that is a major flaw. Make no mistake, they are looking after themselves and this is a takeover rather than a merger."

Oh that the rest of the SFL clubs had this level of lucidity.

Agreed. I also love how they talk about an all through financial model, yet the 18 teams in the bottom division get no more money.

This is all about a spl2 but under 1 league body. They do not give a shit about the bottom 18

[sprotson11 147]

I don't see why people like Stewart Milne thinks this is going to improve Scottish football?

Also, why would a no vote put Spl clubs in financial difficulty.

They have not explained why reconstruction would mean more money for them

[Ozblue 4,331]

Only 10k for about 25% of all the live games in Scotland this season?, We should have bought the sfl tv rights ourselves and sold them on just to keep the greedy mits of the spl away from them.

Can anyone imagine Man utd getting a small amount of money from sky for live tv games while Reading got 20 times more?

This is what we are seeing in Scotland now the biggest supported club getting next to nothing while dross like ICT who would probably be beaten in a ratings battle with aerobics oz style if they were on live tv at the same time walking away with money cause people are watching Rangers games on sky.

There's not much difference in the two programmes.

A lot of fannies going ballistic as if they have sat on a meat ants nest and a load of wind blowing from their orifices.

[callumbo87 209]

According to "sources" hardly any motherwel fans turned up to the meeting last night. Im guessing most think its a foregone clonclusion with them trying to push it through.

I still have a horrible feeling mcgregor will crack under a barrage of phone calls and vote yes.

[sprotson11 147]

According to "sources" hardly any motherwel fans turned up to the meeting last night. Im guessing most think its a foregone clonclusion with them trying to push it through.

I still have a horrible feeling mcgregor will crack under a barrage of phone calls and vote yes.

Looks like Motherwell will be voting yes. Below taken from Mwell forum

Right I am just back from the open forum and I have to say I was extremely disappointed with the turnout. Only 20 or so fans turned up on the night in what I feel is an important issue for the club and the future of Scottish Football. I concede that some folk will have had other commitments but surely we could muster at least 100.

Anyway they started tonight by taking a straw poll on the issue. 4 voted in favour of the proposals and 6 voted against the proposals and the remainder were undecided. I was one of people who voted against the proposals. The club went on to say that if the status quo remained they would lose at least £300k as a result of prize money dropping. They went on to say that the SKY have valued the 12-12-18 setup higher than the current setup in terms of TV revenues. Also from what was discussed I interpreted that there is a league sponsor lined up if they new system gets the green light. I also believe that this will be a gambling company and will be in the region of £1.8 million.

I expressed that my main concern with the proposals was the split in to three eights especially the middle 8 points zeroing and going in to a new league. They said this would be a separate sub competition and any revenues generated by this play off system -TV for example- will be distributed between those 8 clubs. I argued that I don't believe TV companies will be interested in Raith Rovers v St Mirren etc and I don't think it would get more fans through the door anymore than it would in the current format. They admitted that the new set up was a huge gamble but they have to try it. I also expressed my concern that they were abolishing guaranteed promotion because the bottom four in the Premier would finish top 4 in the play off league. They also conceded that this was a possibility but with the extra money they clubs receive under the new proposals they would be able to put an infrastructure in place and be able to compete over time.

Voting structure was an issue discussed and at no point was the 11-1 structure defended. They did say that they don't like it but it remains and they added that most issues will be 9-3.

It's quite late and that's all the real detail I can remember. Once the discussion ended they had another vote and 13 were in favour and 2 were against the proposals and the remainder undecided. Again I voted against the proposals. The split structure is the main issue and I wasn't convinced by what the board had to say on the matter. I am yet to be convinced that there will be a commercial interest in the middle 8 with regards to TV companies. I also have real concerns about the 11-1 voting structure and certain issues being set in stone for 3 years just in time for Rangers to be back in the league.

[sprotson11 147]

Listening to Radio Clyde from last night, Mark Guidi's comments re St Mirren are disgraceful

[scarkev 3,540]

I see Milne is trying to sell reconstruction now with the carrot that we will be left in the bottom 18 despite winning promotion! Bringing out the big guns now in the propoganda to get this through....the anti rangers aka sporting integrity crew will delight at this and their hate will cloud their judgment on how stupid and short sighted these proposals are!

[Blue Skies 31]

Listening to Radio Clyde from last night, Mark Guidi's comments re St Mirren are disgraceful

Yes, Guidi seemed to get extremely hot under the collar and was aggressive towards anyone not agreeing with his views, very strange for someone not personally affected by the situation.

[Non_Sucumbi 876]

Yes, Guidi seemed to get extremely hot under the collar and was aggressive towards anyone not agreeing with his views,

Asymptomatic with being a bhead rhattling barsteward it seems........