scottish frustration

[sandyinroyalblue 16,478]

5 minutes ago, jintybear said:

I was saying this to my husband the other day, I know it's about the product but am I the only one who thinks that the EPL has an unfair sporting advantage over the rest of Europe? They get more money than anyone else and now average players who would in the old days be worth just a couple of £m are now going for 10s of millions! How is the product going to get better when we have no chance of ever affording decent players? 

The thing is Jinty if you have a decent scouting system and youth policy you can coin it in by selling to those clubs with big money on your doorstep,look at the money that other mob have made in recent seasons.

As far as an unfair advantage goes you only need to look at the debt the English clubs are carrying, the decline of their clubs in Europe and the poor performance at the top level of their international team to see that it's not doing them that much good.

[Ibroxholm 2,291]

1 hour ago, Bluepeter9 said:

It's not a problem that only affects us but other 'big' clubs in smaller countries - it's why I always thought the concept of an Atlantic league had some merit as who wants to see teams like us, Ajax, etc. Becoming 2nd and third rate teams based on revenue - even the CL has become a closed shop to even all but the biggest clubs - and yet that market drives huge audiences so the onus is on more elitism rather than sitting out the overall structural issues. 

I remember DM talking about an Atlantic League in the 1990s.  Unfortunately, in looking in that direction at that time, he posssibly missed an opportunity to get in on the EPL at the start, when English football was being reenergised by Sky, after years of it being in the doldrums.

If the CL does end up being a closed shop, I think that may be the catalyst for the Atlantic League idea to be resurrected for the big clubs in the smaller countries.  I think most of the big clubs in the smaller countries would jump at it, let's face it they would have nothing to lose.  Up to now, EUFA have acted to prevent any such cross-border league being created, if the CL becomes a closed shop, I don't think they will be able to maintain this stance.

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

6 minutes ago, jintybear said:

I was saying this to my husband the other day, I know it's about the product but am I the only one who thinks that the EPL has an unfair sporting advantage over the rest of Europe? They get more money than anyone else and now average players who would in the old days be worth just a couple of £m are now going for 10s of millions! How is the product going to get better when we have no chance of ever affording decent players? 

Its not an 'unfair sporting advantage' when the money isn't going into much more than players and agents pockets. What about the commercial arms of Barcelona, Bayern and Real Madrid do they have an 'unfair sporting advantage'? Having people who can package and sell the game is the advantage they have. While Scottish football is run by half wits and chancers then it is always going to struggle. 

[markem 7,327]

1 hour ago, bluenose244 said:

Negative managers,

Negative media,

Terrible followings outside the OF, 

Poor stadiums,

Just a few of the things that damage our "product" as I've said we will never compete with the EPL, but there are things that could be done. 

I believe at youth level across the board things are coming in to the modern era a bit more, no more lumping the ball up the park and we should hopefully see the benefits from this. But it's 10-15 years too late in my opinion. 

Clubs outside the OF should be dropping their prices to encourage more fans to come along to their grounds, seems common sense but for some reason is an idea totally ignored. 

The media is just a rain cloud they have absolutely nothing good to say about our game and constantly jump on anything negative. Look at the press conference with Rossiter. Here's a young talent being tipped for big things, coming up to Scotland and they ask him basically 'what are you doing here it's garbage' 

 

agree with that - take the OF game,  huge appeal, a genuine bargaining chip and all they do is stir up and focus on negativity.  The reason? Same as the 'Manager issue'.  Unqualified, talentless, agenda driven 'Journalists' - Ex player? Opinionated? Rangers hater?* Check, check, check - yer in, your a journalist/pundit now (Sutton/Hartson and so forth).  You just need to watch Warburtons weekly news conference for a bit of insight as to what a shower of Buffoons the Scottish press are, it is truly cringeworthy, a genuine embarrassment.

*Token Rangers in the mould of DJ and Barry allowed a platform to give the pretence of Balance but actually they will toe the party line.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

1 minute ago, Ibroxholm said:

I remember DM talking about an Atlantic League in the 1990s.  Unfortunately, in looking in that direction at that time, he posssibly missed an opportunity to get in on the EPL at the start, when English football was being reenergised by Sky, after years of it being in the doldrums.

If the CL does end up being a closed shop, I think that may be the catalyst for the Atlantic League idea to be resurrected for the big clubs in the smaller countries.  I think most of the big clubs in the smaller countries would jump at it, let's face it they would have nothing to lose.  Up to now, EUFA have acted to prevent any such cross-border league being created, if the CL becomes a closed shop, I don't think they will be able to maintain this stance.

They will try to protect 'their' income stream but some change has to happen but that takes collective organisation - which could prove difficult 

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,666]

2 hours ago, kanjo said:

More money up front.  I think the deal SKY were offering was £60 mil over 3 years, Setanta were offering £30m but with a £2m or £3m straight up payment.  Something ridiculous like that.  Setanta collapsed before we even got to the end of that contract and when we went back to SKY the deal was worth £10m for 3 years.

See I can't really remember it all that well. I must have only been 13-14 when the Setanta deal kicked I and I didn't really pay attention to stuff like TV deals then. 

Reading that though and it seems like a a crazy decision to make.

Wouldn't be like Scottish football to think about the short term benefits of something that is actually bad or damaging in the longer term would it?

[eejay the dj 31,964]

Could have all been so different if the cunts never went with a Company that went bust .From Ireland I think 

[Vanoli 4,628]

52 minutes ago, weshallnotbemoved! said:

But who would want to watch Motherwell V Ross County with half a dozen fans between them. Empty stadia. Most of those types of clubs don't deserve bigger payouts. They bring little to the party.

How many games do those types of teams get though? 

Rangers and Celtic bring a whole lot to the table. I hate to associate ourselves with them just as much as anyone, but for what the two clubs offer alone Scottish football should get more out of the arrangement. 

However, part of me is glad it doesn't. Because if you just look at the numbers; Rangers and Celtic should absolutely dominate the share of that money distributed through the league. But all the diddy teams throw a hissy fit about it every few years and it isn't distributed proportionately. Diddy teams who shot Scottish football in the foot by choosing setanta years ago, and later tried to kill our club would benefit immensely. 

I want Rangers benefiting proportionately and fairly from what we offer to Sky. Right now their absolutely laughing at the views we bring them and for the price they pay for those views. 

[sandyinroyalblue 16,478]

1 minute ago, Vanoli said:

How many games do those types of teams get though? 

Rangers and Celtic being a whole lot to the table. I hate to associate ourselves with them just as much as anyone, but for what the two clubs offer alone Scottish football should get more out of the arrangement. 

However, part of me is glad it doesn't. Because if you just look at the numbers; Rangers and Celtic should absolutely dominate the share of that money distibuted through the league. But all the diddy teams throw a hissy fit about it every few years and it isn't distributed proportionately. Diddy teams who shot Scottish football in the foot by choosing setanta years ago, and later tried to kill our club would benefit immensely. 

I want Rangers benefiting proportionately and fairly from what we offer to Sky. Right now their absolutely laughing at the views we bring them and for the price they pay for those views. 

You're right Rangers aren't getting proportionately what is fair but as you say the tail wags the dug up here so until we change that for a start then things will never change.

[eejay the dj 31,964]

23 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

I remember DM talking about an Atlantic League in the 1990s.  Unfortunately, in looking in that direction at that time, he posssibly missed an opportunity to get in on the EPL at the start, when English football was being reenergised by Sky, after years of it being in the doldrums.

If the CL does end up being a closed shop, I think that may be the catalyst for the Atlantic League idea to be resurrected for the big clubs in the smaller countries.  I think most of the big clubs in the smaller countries would jump at it, let's face it they would have nothing to lose.  Up to now, EUFA have acted to prevent any such cross-border league being created, if the CL becomes a closed shop, I don't think they will be able to maintain this stance.

If the CL becomes closed .It will become boring .Greed will win but ultimately it will fail in time 

[jintybear 8,660]

20 minutes ago, RFC Eagle said:

Its not an 'unfair sporting advantage' when the money isn't going into much more than players and agents pockets. What about the commercial arms of Barcelona, Bayern and Real Madrid do they have an 'unfair sporting advantage'? Having people who can package and sell the game is the advantage they have. While Scottish football is run by half wits and chancers then it is always going to struggle. 

It's unfair when mediocre players are getting so much money because the clubs are able to pay them. Take MU and Pogba for example. An average player going for £100m. I think Real Madrid were in for him but couldn't afford to pay the same as MU. 

I agree about Scottish football though. Ran by muppets. As someone else said Rangers and Celtic appeal to fans all over the world, especially when we play each other. That game alone should be worth £ms because of the worldwide appeal it has. 

[THE_Ibrox_Preacher 2,812]

While I agree with many of the points on this issue and while I could discuss this topic in depth I won't.

What I will say is England is only going to get more and more "Fuck you" money because the powers that be want it to be #1.

What I will say is that a British league isn't going to happen because it's not in England's interest, the brand is the Premier League, not the British Premier League.

What I will say is that if you're a Scot who see's England with "Fuck you" money and complain about it yet you watch Watford V Birmingham on Sky, bet on Liverpool V Stoke on Bet365, take trips to see Chelsea, buy yourself the strips, buy your kids Man City tops etc. etc. you're making it worse. Why would England incorporate our teams when our market already spend it's money on their shit? We can back our own and ignore England making us a black zone on their market coverage within our island or we can stop complaining, do the English watch our games? Do they take trips up here to watch us? Do they buy our strips? Most of them couldn't name the teams in the top division. 

If the whole of Scotland buys a ticket for a game every season, if we all watch every televised game from our country regardless of the teams, if we buy the advertised products when they start paying to advertise our teams, when we bet only on Scottish football, when we actively ignore English games and everything that surrounds them etc. etc. then money will improve up here because companies love to know they own a whole area - they don't like seeing blackout spots on the map. We used to back our own and if you can't do it why would England or a company?! Might not be what some of you want to hear but it's fantasy to think England will or Britain will improve things up here when you prop up their primary interest of England. That's just the reality of it. 

England works hard to make the world feel like it should give a fuck about WBA playing Notts Country in a Monday cup clash on tv and we'd rather give them our money and rip each other to shreds up here with infighting. We're our own worst enemies and we do it in complete ignorance.

[ronniescu 2,992]

3 hours ago, gersandy said:

The English Premier league has a great tv deal, which is increasing 30% next year. 

Lets put that into comparison. The tv rights for BPL games now stands at £5.5 billion or something over 3 seasons.

Ours is worth £11 million a season.

You do the math.

s

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

26 minutes ago, jintybear said:

It's unfair when mediocre players are getting so much money because the clubs are able to pay them. Take MU and Pogba for example. An average player going for £100m. I think Real Madrid were in for him but couldn't afford to pay the same as MU. 

I agree about Scottish football though. Ran by muppets. As someone else said Rangers and Celtic appeal to fans all over the world, especially when we play each other. That game alone should be worth £ms because of the worldwide appeal it has. 

Man United are, arguably, the biggest club in the world and Pogba is a long long way from average. Again its the appalling job the SFA/SPFL do thats the issue. Madrid are perfectly able to compete but Pogba is heading home he made it pretty clear where he wanted to play. His agent was the reason he left the first time because he fell out with SAF. Maybe Scottish football should ask him to pass on his knowledge and rid itself of the dross.

[Lee Feeney Loyal 12]

Nobody owes anybody a living in business. Sky have pretty much one guy who is the 'go to' guy to negotiate deals, and I bet the SPFL and SFA don't have someone with a proper one to one relationship with him, the type of relationship that allows you to leverage deals over a number of years, not turn up now and again with the begging bowl out.

BT have slightly had the upper hand recently with deals, IMO it's no coincidence that Celtic have key shareholders at BT and probably tip off BT as to what an 'acceptable' bid would be for example for the recent package agreed for the League Cup rights.

Clubs, including ours, also need to move away from the arrogance of the past that 'We're Rangers (or Celtic, Motherwell, Aberdeen or whoever)  and everyone knows where we are if they want us'. To be fair our board have made encouraging noises about reaching out to fans and having new initiatives, but it needs to be backed up with action.

I take my nephew to the odd game, and try to teach him about our clubs great history and traditions, but he talks about Messi and Neymar the way I used to talk about Super Ally and Ian Durrant, because he has the same access to Barcelona in terms of media coverage etc as I did to Rangers at 9 years old before the internet etc.

The other main issue we have is that the Old Firm is the one cross border selling point we have, but none of the other clubs or their fans want to admit it. Viewing figures don't lie, and viewing figures produce advertising revenues, which produces bigger TV deals. Sky will show all Old Firm league games this season, and I bet the SPFL didn't leverage a single extra penny out of them for it.

[gersandy 594]

3 hours ago, sandyinroyalblue said:

I think maybe the Italian clubs negotiate their own individual deal in some way,that's our only forward in terms of maximising tv revenue.

Scottish football would collapse if we all negotiated our own deals. 

[jintybear 8,660]

9 minutes ago, RFC Eagle said:

Man United are, arguably, the biggest club in the world and Pogba is a long long way from average. Again its the appalling job the SFA/SPFL do thats the issue. Madrid are perfectly able to compete but Pogba is heading home he made it pretty clear where he wanted to play. His agent was the reason he left the first time because he fell out with SAF. Maybe Scottish football should ask him to pass on his knowledge and rid itself of the dross.

Maybe average was underestimating him but he's no Ronaldo! I know MU are one of the biggest clubs in the world but easily so are we and, it hurts to say, so are the scum. It's the rest of the teams in Scottish football that are worthless (even though their fans seem to think their clubs are huge). I'm not disagreeing with you about the SFA though. I've always been raging with the lesser greedy clubs for voting with setanta. They just saw £ signs and didn't look at the bigger picture. A bit like when they were shunting us to the third division 

See to be honest I'm just a woman so what the fck do I know?! 

[G.E.C. 19,116]

I remember a pub in New York advertised a Ross County v St Mirren game.

Why I'm posting this here I'll never know.

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

13 minutes ago, jintybear said:

Maybe average was underestimating him but he's no Ronaldo! I know MU are one of the biggest clubs in the world but easily so are we and, it hurts to say, so are the scum. It's the rest of the teams in Scottish football that are worthless (even though their fans seem to think their clubs are huge). I'm not disagreeing with you about the SFA though. I've always been raging with the lesser greedy clubs for voting with setanta. They just saw £ signs and didn't look at the bigger picture. A bit like when they were shunting us to the third division 

See to be honest I'm just a woman so what the fck do I know?! 

The entire issue is not to do with the EPL and if you were being realistic, Rangers and Celtic have big ex-pat followings in the US, Australia etc but most of South East Asia, China and India couldn't care less. Thats down to poor marketing but neither compare to the big 3 clubs Real, Barca and United.

I'm not trying to do Rangers down but you really can't be serious if you think they are on a par as things stand? Was it an unfair sporting advantage when Rangers were buying the best English players? 

I understand the frustration but to blame the EPL for doing a better job is verging on ridiculous. The blame lies in Scotland and Scotland alone.

Its nothing to do with gender your opinion is as valid as anyones and in some cases more so.

[jintybear 8,660]

17 minutes ago, RFC Eagle said:

The entire issue is not to do with the EPL and if you were being realistic, Rangers and Celtic have big ex-pat followings in the US, Australia etc but most of South East Asia, China and India couldn't care less. Thats down to poor marketing but neither compare to the big 3 clubs Real, Barca and United.

I'm not trying to do Rangers down but you really can't be serious if you think they are on a par as things stand? Was it an unfair sporting advantage when Rangers were buying the best English players? 

I understand the frustration but to blame the EPL for doing a better job is verging on ridiculous. The blame lies in Scotland and Scotland alone.

I disagree about Rangers and Celtic not being as big as any other team. I don't think we had an unfair sporting advantage because we weren't getting as much money as the EPL are getting now. We may have been getting slightly more than other SPL teams but let's face it the only reason they get any money at all is because of us and the scum. No one is interested is Hearts or Hibs unless they are playing us or them. I understand the whole paying for the product and the Scottish product is very poor but the money being paid to the EPL is ridiculous and it's ruining football as a whole IMO. 

I dont think we're going to agree but I stand by what I said. Again IMO we cannot even afford the shit players from the EPL and as things stand we never will. 

[ZZed 4,510]

Scottish football needs to change it's structure and alter the rules of the game up here to make it more exciting. Too many teams with ten defenders and one attacker with lumping the ball forward as the tactic; this is boring football. I would consider summer football as well.  

[AlCapone 7,678]

4 hours ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

Scottish Clubs need to fight for a bigger slice of the TV pie.  There's plenty of Scottish football fans paying a premium for Sky and all that money is going down South.  People North of the border need to cancel their subscriptions while the clubs themselves fight for a better deal. 

nonsense,we are paid what the deal is worth

[jintybear 8,660]

6 minutes ago, ZZed said:

Scottish football needs to change it's structure and alter the rules of the game up here to make it more exciting. Too many teams with ten defenders and one attacker with lumping the ball forward as the tactic; this is boring football. I would consider summer football as well.  

I agree with this! I've ran out  of likes though!

[AlCapone 7,678]

The EPL is worth so much money because its the single reason people choose their whole tv, phone and broadband supplier, Without the EPL then sky and BT would not be market leaders, Scottish football attracts very few new customers to these products which is why the value is so low. its really that simple.

[ZZed 4,510]

I was thinking of something like zero points for a nothing each draw, 3 point for a win, 1 point for a score draw. That may change some mangers approach to football. Summer football is better weather (maybe), We may attract better TV deals.