has a Rangers manager ever survived

[Captain Hilts 12,819]

5 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

you can say there's no funds mate but how many other sides have spent the near 4.5million quid that he has outwith the taigs? None of them are near us in terms of finances. People do get too drawn up on money spent etc. 

A manager has a budget and needs to identify players who will work in our system. He was dwarfed in terms of budget at Brentford but had them flying. He identified or helped to Identify guys like Andre gray and he was signed for less than what we paid for Joe garner.

The question in the OP was specifically about the taigs. Yes of course our budget is far higher than the other 10 clubs in the league and we should be comfortably 2nd by now, and that is a failure on the manager's part, but where they bastards are concerned we are where our budget at the start of the season would suggest we would be.

[Billy1984 6,314]

4 minutes ago, Bears r us said:

I think you have hit the nail square on with this post. If MW was happy with his budget then he underestimated the job he had to do and if he was not happy with it then he should have made that known by giving a few hints. He is certainly leaving himself open to taking the flak that should be going their way.

Whatever is true it needs sorted because although RFC52 quite rightly says not too many of us are saying MW needs to go now I think it is because he is a nice chap and speaks well in news conferences, but that will not last much longer IMO because we are now back in a battle for 2nd again and although the sheep are not great it puts even more pressure on us to get results.

The points difference to the scum is hellish and if MW or the Board think this situation is fine they are all in for a shock before long.

It was plain for anyone to see we needed quality players in all the key areas of the team. What was brought in was arguably worse than the players we had who were good enough to get us out of the championship and possibly be squad players back in the top flight. Maybe the jump in leagues was underestimated or maybe 2nd place on the cheap was the aim. Both are unacceptable. 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Just now, Rfc52 said:

I like the guy as well and really would like him to succeed here. I just thought that the screw would turn on him.

 

I sense, I could be wrong, that 1, he appreciates what the team needs more than he did in the summer, and 2, that he knows who he wants and doesn't want. He's a good reader of the game; watching that yesterday I realised that what we were watching was what he saw as well. I think this next two transfer windows will tell us a lot. I want him to get money to buy midfielders this window., and to be radical in the summer. I'm convinced he will be.

[Bluebear11 134]

Unique situation.

First of all we should have more points, that is for sure.

Unfortunately our rivals have dropped 2 points all season. I can't remember any team doing that in the league before so no matter how better we could be, we would naturally be double figures behind. They have won every game bar a last minute equaliser.

We should have won more games but in a normal season we would be trailing.

 

This isn't normal. They have millions to spend and can pay guys 3 times as much. 

 

I am pretty worried that it's going to take 5 years plus to even get a title. Unless investment comes in then we will continue to fall.

 

Yesterday our players had 100% heart but to be fair celtic didn't start well and they upped a few levels 2nd half and could have hammered us had it not been for our keeper who motm for us.

 

In every game versus them under MW we have let them have at least 20 attempts on goal. Even the semi last season where we won on pens, celtic still had 20 attempts plus and missed sitters... we played the better football but even a shite manager and team managed to do that to us.

Any manager whether it be Walter or Conte would struggle to come close on our budget.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

3 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Without sounding like a wanker mate Warburton's personal happiness doesn't concern me - all I care about his the job he's doing. 

If he's unhappy then he knows where the door is - even the people who still rate him wouldn't be in tears ... don't think anyway ?

I meant that he has never showed any frustration about his lot here; he is buying below the budget of others, and yet has stuck to his plan etc. It was nothing to do with his personal happiness etc. I'm purely talking about Warburton as manger of Rangers, nothing else.

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, Turnberry18 said:

I meant that he has never showed any frustration about his lot here; he is buying below the budget of others, and yet has stuck to his plan etc. It was nothing to do with his personal happiness etc. I'm purely talking about Warburton as manger of Rangers, nothing else.

He comes across deluded I think he honestly thinks these players are belters hence maybe why you think he's happy ?

[RFC55 109,265]

5 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

No other manager has had to compete for the title using a budget 3 times less than that of Celtic.  There's no point bringing up PLG as the situation is not comparable.  Even the likes of Walter Smith and Dick Advocaat would struggle to overcome this Celtic side while having their hands tied financially.  Let's not forget, Walter's success was often backed up with big money and so was Dick's.  Warburton is facing an almighty challenge here and let's recognise rather than attempt to belittle it.

Walters last season in particular showed just how good a man manager he really was 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Just now, K.A.I said:

He comes across deluded I think he honestly thinks these players are belters hence maybe why you think he's happy ?

I'm using the word happy in a totally different way. I don't think he's deluded at all; he always comes across as being realistic whenever he speaks about the club etc. He is always measured about our game, that of the opposition. If you think he is deluded because he has a vision for this club then why shouldn't he have a vision for what he wants this club to be? That wouldn't be deluded though.

[Jelavic191 4,474]

9 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

We'd be competitive under Smith.

Organised,stronger and he'd get more out of each player.

None of this "we'll learn from it" pish. He'd be roasting them.

While the financial gap remains as large as it is presently this would be the only way I could see us reaching 55 in the short term. Celtic have had an incredible start in terms of results, and won't do this every year, but we've taken 2 points from 15 in the away games against the teams in the top 6 mostly because we have been organised properly for them or too weak and naive. 

[Deanzmeanzheinz 4,312]

31 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

See I was going to add in that they've had a pretty unprecedented start. Which does take some heat off MW because we aren't even getting the chance to take advantage of a slip up from them. 

I think it is that but more the financial situation thats the stark reality. 

Another point to this is whenever theres pressure on a manager no-one ever mentions someone likely to do a better job. Just get rid of the cunt. Newcastle are a case in point, tbey chased Sir Bobby Robson out his job ffs. Falkirk too when john hughes was manager, Danny Lennon at StMirren wins the League Cup within a year hes sacked and look where that clusterfuck of a club is now.

One of our strengths over our whole history is the number of managers we have had. It illustrates tolerance and sanity and the relentless atitude that second place will never do. We dont hound referees or fabricate ridiculous conspiracy theories. We will get back to the top, its inevitable. Its in these dark days though we have to ask, when? 

[Bears r us 30,826]

4 minutes ago, billsim1984 said:

It was plain for anyone to see we needed quality players in all the key areas of the team. What was brought in was arguably worse than the players we had who were good enough to get us out of the championship and possibly be squad players back in the top flight. Maybe the jump in leagues was underestimated or maybe 2nd place on the cheap was the aim. Both are unacceptable. 

I do wonder if MW really appreciates what managing Rangers is all about and that beating selick to titles and cups is what we the fans need and want and how fucking terrible it has been over the last few years watching them lift title after title as we are coming up through the leagues. If he does not someone needs to tell him and quickly.

I would also add the above to King and Co, do they really care as much as us the paying fans, they also need to start understanding that quickly as well. 

[TMB 14,167]

8 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

Walters last season in particular showed just how good a man manager he really was 

The second time Walter was with us I think he spent more than £20m.  Let's not try and pretend he got all his success on a budget.  Warburton has been asked to win the title on a fraction of what Celtic are spending making it a very unique situation for the Rangers manager.

[RFC55 109,265]

1 minute ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

The second time Walter was with us I think he spent more than £20m.  Let's not try and pretend he got all his success on a budget.  Warburton has been asked to win the title on a fraction of what Celtic are spending making it a very unique situation for the Rangers manager.

Walter in his last season proved how good a man manager he is. 

At what point does that suggest that he done it on a shoestring budget

BTW out of the taigs six signings including the wee guy from dunfermline Rogers has only spent 5million or there abouts. Deila spent most of the big money there. The tarriers are not some swashbuckling Harlem globetrotters type team who've cost hundreds of millions to assemble. He has instilled a belief into a bunch of mediocre shite and signed both Sinclair and dembele who have added a bit of quality to the previous shite they had left. We've not been left behind by a Barcelona here

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

I think there seems to be an acceptance that they are much better than us which leads to the gaffer getting an easier ride than previous managers would have had.

Personally I think them signing Sinclair and Dembele has made the difference, if Barton and Kranjcar had hit the ground running then it could have been a lot closer. They have 2 match winners and how many do we have? 

In that aspect of our signings, I don't think we signed Barton and Niko to make sure of 2nd place, it was to win the league, unfortunately Barton was a mess and Niko was as fit as Michelle McManus then got injured. 

We showed yesterday that we could put them on the backfoot and really trouble them but minus matchwinners or someone like Barton in the midfield to take control of the situation then we were outmuscled.

I think Mark will get away with less shite because of what I've mentioned above, the paedos recruited well and our recruitments either got kicked out the club or ended up injured. There's no danger that the board will hold the gaffer responsible for that although many of us on here were quick enough to say how we felt about the wiseness of signing an arsehole.

We're that bad that most of us have already started looking to next season which again releases pressure from the gaffer right now.

I would stick with him but he must be backed to sign players who can cut ut in Europe too, I'm not holding my breath. 

[gmcf 34,342]

51 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

Aye it's no even a thread for me to have a go at him or that. I just don't understand why Ally and PLG got absolute dogs abuse yet this seems to be accepted. I know on here theres voices of discontent but there's nothing in the media, no ex players or managers moaning. It just seems a really weird situation compared to how others have been slaughtered 

I just get the feeling we're not far away from clicking , it's been one step forward then two back . Like you , I thought we'd turned a corner after the three good games only to go backwards . Good starts against the tims and StJ then panic when we lose a goal . It's mind numbing because we've proved we can play some good stuff , unfortunately it tends to be the exception rather than the norm . 

Ive said before , our biggest problem is no mental toughness when things like a goal go against us . Part of that is down to the management and if there's no progress on that front between now and the end of the season , then it's maybe time for a change . 

[RFC55 109,265]

1 minute ago, gmcf said:

I just get the feeling we're not far away from clicking , it's been one step forward then two back . Like you , I thought we'd turned a corner after the three good games only to go backwards . Good starts against the tims and StJ then panic when we lose a goal . It's mind numbing because we've proved we can play some good stuff , unfortunately it tends to be the exception rather than the norm . 

Ive said before , our biggest problem is no mental toughness when things like a goal go against us . Part of that is down to the management and if there's no progress on that front between now and the end of the season , then it's maybe time for a change . 

see yesterday mate when they scored I looked at our players as they waited for the restart. either all arguing or standing looking at the ground. Now the way they had been playing didn't deserve that so I don't know why the heads just dropped. The belief seemed to drain and they finished the first half much the stronger 

[Copland bear 7,966]

The manager has got mostly freebies and the odd small transfer fee, Halliday , holt , Tav, Hill, Waghorn, Forrester, Big Wes, Keirnan . Add the fact he had Wilson, McKay and Wallace were already there along with Miller.

All that is happening is we are buying average players and expecting the manager to turn them into world beaters , even if we had someone worth £3 million this board would sell. 

It will all come to a head as we the fans demand success

[Turnberry18 3,204]

6 minutes ago, gmcf said:

I just get the feeling we're not far away from clicking , it's been one step forward then two back . Like you , I thought we'd turned a corner after the three good games only to go backwards . Good starts against the tims and StJ then panic when we lose a goal . It's mind numbing because we've proved we can play some good stuff , unfortunately it tends to be the exception rather than the norm . 

Ive said before , our biggest problem is no mental toughness when things like a goal go against us . Part of that is down to the management and if there's no progress on that front between now and the end of the season , then it's maybe time for a change . 

Some of the players are tougher mentally than they were last season; I'd say most of the defence are tougher in that way. Not every player has shown he can cope with the pressures, but some have coped better than others. Unlike previous Rangers teams, there are few stalwarts who have been through this before. I watched an interview a while back and Derek Johnstone spoke about how Dave Smith spoke him through the ECW win, but he also spoke about the older players influence. Older fans always speak highly of Dave Smith, but we have few players like that here who can teach the younger ones what it is to play for the club, or talk them through important games. Most of the players are learning on their feet. It's an important aspect to this team that we are possibly ignoring too easily.

[Albertz 78 918]

4 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

The second time Walter was with us I think he spent more than £20m.  Let's not try and pretend he got all his success on a budget.  Warburton has been asked to win the title on a fraction of what Celtic are spending making it a very unique situation for the Rangers manager.

 

Warburton was given enough funds to at least put up a decent fight.

Since he became Manager we've only won about 50% of our away games and only one of them was to a club that had a bigger budget.

Yes the financial gap between Rangers and "them" is big but the financial gap between Rangers and a team like ST Johnstone is big as well and we've failed to beat them 3 times since MW took over.

Our record against Hibs and Falkirk last season was dreadful losing 5 times in one season to them.

If it was a case of MW winning most of the games against the other teams but only losing to septic then fair play. But we can't hide behind the they have more money excuse when we are failing to beat teams who have a 3rd of our budget at the same time.

[Bakbear 3,586]

Good discussion. 

Why is Warburton getting a smooth ride 

i think it's because when he first came in the transformation was pretty spectacular. The overhaul he brought to the club was everything we had all been looking for and he delivered big time in the first 6 months. I think that built up an enormous amount of leeway. He has just about worked through that now. 

However what is probably buying him more time is that we have been really unlucky with our summer signings.

I know all the armchair experts will say that he is to blame but Barton could have been a great signing if we had got the player from Burnleys previous season. It was a gamble but it was a worthy one. Not only did it not work out, I also wonder what kind of damage it did to the confidence of the group. Certainly we have seen the likes of McKay, Tav and Waghorn all have a crisis of confidence this year

then there is Kranjcar, the experts will say we shouldn't have signed a has been who was already semi retired and had a history of injuries but he was really coming on to a game before it all went wrong. That's our two marquee signings of the summer.

Add in Rossiter, Crooks and Windass and there is 5 midfielders that just haven't worked out. Mostly due to injury. 

I also think that there is an understanding that Warburton is trying to bring the right positions in. He was desperate to get another Center half in and couldn't get a deal done so ended up with a panic buy in Senderos 

I sense frustration from Warburton in his inability to attract the players he wants. He has made regular references to this in his pressers. The reality is Scottish football is a back water. The only real reason the scum attract a better level of player is because they have Champions league and they throw wages at them. On the other hand our brand has taken a fuckkng pummelling for the last 8 years thanks to our friends in the media 

I think the plan right now is to rebuild our reputation by getting European football. Demonstrate that we are an attractive proposition for players to take their next step, that's why you hear all our staff praising the crowds and the facilities here. If players see that we are fully back then they will be more inclined to sign on. 

All of this is why I believe Warburton is getting an easy ride. He will be judged on getting second this year and making a damn good fist of next season. If we are in a remotely similar state in 12 months then he will be gone. Or at least he better be. 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

1 hour ago, K.A.I said:

Was saying to the guy In work this morning that Le Guen rightly got chased for a lot, lot less and by the fans too who rounded 

what makes Warburton so special ?

we are unrecognisable as a support these days - too many people don't care about our success or lack of provided they are seen to be loyal or something.

Agree we are unrecognisable as a support - never seen so many of our support have so much hate for our club and so little understanding of what's going on or what we are trying to do - support has been replaced by the arrrogance that we should embed world class ' just because... ' 

[Deanzmeanzheinz 4,312]

1 hour ago, billsim1984 said:

The phrase I don't like hearing from our support is "it's our first year back, second or third is good". That's bollocks if you ask me. Second is never good enough for our club. The truth is if we had recruited properly in the summer we'd be competing with this bang average celtic team. Both the board and the manager are accountable for where we are. 

58 pts out of 60 and undefeated home and away to Man City is not bang average. That hurts but its true. 

[gmcf 34,342]

1 minute ago, Rfc52 said:

see yesterday mate when they scored I looked at our players as they waited for the restart. either all arguing or standing looking at the ground. Now the way they had been playing didn't deserve that so I don't know why the heads just dropped. The belief seemed to drain and they finished the first half much the stronger 

That's what's so frustrating . Despite their spending I thought , up until their equaliser , we were better than them , but once we lose a goal we just seem to deflate , it happens far too often and it's killing us . 

We just don't seem to have the character ( as Jock Wallace would say ) or the mental toughness ( as Walter Smith would say ) to overcome adversity right now . 

 

[RFC55 109,265]

Just now, Deanzmeanzheinz said:

58 pts out of 60 and undefeated home and away to Man City is not bang average. That hurts but its true. 

9 0 smashing from Barça and a defeat to a team from Gibraltar. they ain't great.

[K.A.I 36,183]

3 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Agree we are unrecognisable as a support - never seen so many of our support have so much hate for our club and so little understanding of what's going on or what we are trying to do - support has been replaced by the arrrogance that we should embed world class ' just because... ' 

What are we trying to do then? Surrender titles to Celtic and slug it out with Aberdeen for third? We are doing a good job