Everyone going on about the manager.....

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

Completely understandable....but don't become short sighted and forget about the boards part to play in going forward and how poor our squad is. you could bring in Mourinho to manage what we have on the budget we are seeing and he would not achieve results with it.

Lest just hope next season we have a big name manager, a mass clear out and a decent budget to rebuild as what we have will never be good enough to win the title.

if we don't then it really is time for the board to sell up and if that means selling cheap to a willing buyer then so be it as they are not taking us forward at the moment.

for me the order is

1> Finance

2> Team

3> Manager

[RFC55 109,712]

When a guy has three or four million to spend and around the same to add in on wages then it's his fault. Walter bought a jelavic. That clown gave us garner, MOH, dodoo, rossiter. Only one of them play. MOH plays with his face tripping him and the other two fuck knows. 

talk about money all day long but at the end of the day a manager has to identify the best players for that budget or work out the best way to spend that. He done neither. Like Ally before him it's their fault. Not good enough and they're gone. 

[Smile 26,622]

The Board should be gone by now second manager now and making us a laughing stock with every decision they make.

[NeoGeo7 10,609]

The board aren't blameless for where we are, you are right.

However, the budget Warburton had would have given other managers a wet dream.

The main reason we are where we are is Warburton and McParlands signings. Yes the board didn't say here's £15m to spend on players but £7-8m a year on wages is far more than our competitors.

Its not easy to find gems in the transfer market for buttons otherwise everyone would be doing it.

This summers signings show what Warburton was doing with regards to getting high profile and expensive players in who were a risk. I wonder how much Hyndman is on at Bournemouth? Probably about as much as we gave Barton or are giving Kranjcar. Rossiter was the right type of signing, Dodoo was the right type of signing. Players with potential and resale value.

Warburton didn't have much from a transfer fee point of view but what he did have he has squandered. Buying garner for £1.8m and not even playing to his strengths just shows how clueless he actually was. I've yet to see anyone say "Garner works best in a fluid front three".

i agree the board need to do much much more in terms of generating income or at least putting in more money up front that under their stewardship will get us back to the champions league where the money will start to come back in to the club. As I say they are not blameless however Warburton had plenty to work with to create a squad that could beat the likes of hearts and Aberdeen.

[Billy1984 6,314]

I'm cautious about this board and just hope that the reason there was no more money for warburton was because they knew he would waste it. It's time for the board to come through on their promises, both with financing recruitment of a top class manager and backing him so he can get in the players he needs. 

[He's blue he's white 717]

It's quite simple, if a new manager takes the job then he has accepted the budget...he must then identify the best value within that said budget.  Warburton failed in that aspect.

its not as simple to put our needs into a hierarchical list, as they are all linked to one another.  Depending on who our manager is will then depend on the calibre of player we can attract for example.

its a risk assessment type of strategy the board should be adopting from a business aspect, and then deciding of what model we go for.

as fans we want a top name and a large budget to acquire top players...sadly I can't see either happening at the moment.  

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,540]

He's a rat bastard and so are his assistant and super scout pals.

[jackrfc95 4,255]

The board aren't blameless but they gave Warburton enough to finish a comfortable second IMO. He brought in 11 players in the summer and 1 plays, his recruitment let him down big time.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 54,068]

Just now, NeoGeo7 said:

The main reason we are where we are is Warburton and McParlands signings. Yes the board didn't say here's £15m to spend on players but £7-8m a year on wages is far more than our competitors.

I'm not going to disagree with you here but a much ignored fact (maybe opinion) is the "Rangers effect" as I call it where we pay more wages for a player on a weekly basis due to size of the club, profile, expectations etc.

Our wage bill is more than other competitors bar the bheasts. But if we signed say Aberdeens first eleven that were on say 2k pw each we would pay them around 5k pw each. Because it's our economies and players / agents demand and expect and get it.

So we could have that team on what we're paying our team now. That doesn't make them better, just costlier.

And that's why we're a similar standard to the likes of the sheep because that's a similar standard of player we can bring in.

When you compare our size to the bheasts, who are financially strong and pay 20k pw then that's why they can get to a different level.

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

We got rid of 3 rats from the dugout, time to get rid of a few rats from the boardroom. 

As soon as King starts adding in initial share costs and using wages as proof he has thrown money at us, it's time for a rethink. 

[cushynumber 25,178]

Money is everything in football - but the only one of WM's signings who has featured regularly to start on Sunday was Hill. Rossiter, Barton, Krancjar, Windass, Garner, Crooks, Dodoo - thats a shed load of money we are/were paying out in wages alone who are gone or passengers. Senderos will be lucky if he plays 10 games the whole season.

Its like burning money

[Smile 26,622]

This is the Boards second bad signing as manager and they sanctioned the players signed by Warburton they should go as well as they have failed on exactly the same criteria they measure Warburton on they were both hopless.

[A.T.G 10,773]

Frauds

[Turnberry18 3,204]

17 minutes ago, NeoGeo7 said:

The board aren't blameless for where we are, you are right.

However, the budget Warburton had would have given other managers a wet dream.

The main reason we are where we are is Warburton and McParlands signings. Yes the board didn't say here's £15m to spend on players but £7-8m a year on wages is far more than our competitors.

Its not easy to find gems in the transfer market for buttons otherwise everyone would be doing it.

This summers signings show what Warburton was doing with regards to getting high profile and expensive players in who were a risk. I wonder how much Hyndman is on at Bournemouth? Probably about as much as we gave Barton or are giving Kranjcar. Rossiter was the right type of signing, Dodoo was the right type of signing. Players with potential and resale value.

Warburton didn't have much from a transfer fee point of view but what he did have he has squandered. Buying garner for £1.8m and not even playing to his strengths just shows how clueless he actually was. I've yet to see anyone say "Garner works best in a fluid front three".

i agree the board need to do much much more in terms of generating income or at least putting in more money up front that under their stewardship will get us back to the champions league where the money will start to come back in to the club. As I say they are not blameless however Warburton had plenty to work with to create a squad that could beat the likes of hearts and Aberdeen.

Which managers where?

[Big Al 55 9,291]

There are plenty of managers willing to take the job. Im not so sure its the same for invenstors, after all its not new board members were looking for its investors, to keep us going while we continue to lose money.

[NeoGeo7 10,609]

15 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

I'm not going to disagree with you here but a much ignored fact (maybe opinion) is the "Rangers effect" as I call it where we pay more wages for a player on a weekly basis due to size of the club, profile, expectations etc.

Our wage bill is more than other competitors bar the bheasts. But if we signed say Aberdeens first eleven that were on say 2k pw each we would pay them around 5k pw each. Because it's our economies and players / agents demand and expect and get it.

So we could have that team on what we're paying our team now. That doesn't make them better, just costlier.

And that's why we're a similar standard to the likes of the sheep because that's a similar standard of player we can bring in.

When you compare our size to the bheasts, who are financially strong and pay 20k pw then that's why they can get to a different level.

I agree, I think when we come in for a player their agent sees  as do the clubs we negotiate deals with.

if we went abroad for players I doubt this would be the case with the clubs when negotiating a fee but agents will very much still try to get us to pay above the odds.

Thats the problem with the salaries in football in general. 'Oh so you don't want to pay £15k a week for this league one player, well that's fine we'll jus go to another league one side that can and will"

its hard to see a way out other than being able to unearth hidden gems before they get to the stage that they are too costly but that needs a good scouting network which we clearly don't have. We should also be looking to do as much as we can for the likes of Gilmour, Burt, Rudden, McCrorie etc. to ensure that we help them develop and we then both benefit either by them contributing to the club by being good players or by moving on and allowing us to make a profit. This doesn't happen overnight and it's hard given we are very much a results driven club making it harder to give these kids a chance.

In an ideal world we'd have some loaded billionaire just dump a wad of cash at the door and we could build a team from that (though the rules around financial fair play to be able to play in European competition would probably mean that wasn't possible anyway) and from there we can then look to improve from within.

There is no easy answer unfortunately but the board really do need to be working harder at generating income.

[RFC55 109,712]

another thing that got really tiring with him was his constant talk about the English market and how it was far too pricey, yet all he done was shop in said overinflated english market 

[LochendBilly 8,416]

Amazes me that some are taking King's word as the truth now, just saying  TBH I have no idea what went on and doubt many do.

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,215]

Not buying this for a minute.

Warburton was set a target of second this season (Kings statement outright said it IIRC) and he was given more than enough financial backing to achieve it.

[RFC55 109,712]

1 minute ago, LochendBilly said:

Amazes me that some are taking King's word as the truth now, just saying  TBH I have no idea what went on and doubt many do.

look at his record as a manager. you can see it's shite. He had to go and is gone thankfully. Same with Ally before people get far to bogged down on boards. Those who hated the last board blamed them rather than Ally and those that hate this one seem to blame them rather than warburton.

two managers have been poor for different reasons. But both of them are to blame for the state of the playing squads they built.

 

[pcbear 10,924]

The shambles on the pitch was a sacking offence imo allied to the disastrous signings, three transfer windows later we are as disjointed and lop sided as ever and playing shit

[RFC55 109,712]

Just now, DBBTB said:

Not buying this for a minute.

Warburton was set a target of second this season (Kings statement outright said it IIRC) and he was given more than enough financial backing to achieve it.

Why do we think hebchanged so much mate? His first summer it was all about just how much value players would bring to us and the fact that they had to be young and hungry and with a point to prove.

We then signed hill, kranjcar, Barton, senderos. One of them made sense in Barton as he had a good season last year but we knew the baggage and the risk that came with him. He just seemed to have such a scattergun approach this summer when compared to thebseason before. 

Shambles 

[The Godfather 72,392]

57 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

When a guy has three or four million to spend and around the same to add in on wages then it's his fault. Walter bought a jelavic. That clown gave us garner, MOH, dodoo, rossiter. Only one of them play. MOH plays with his face tripping him and the other two fuck knows. 

talk about money all day long but at the end of the day a manager has to identify the best players for that budget or work out the best way to spend that. He done neither. Like Ally before him it's their fault. Not good enough and they're gone. 

Spot on.

I'm no fan of the board but folk need to leave their hate aside for a minute and look at the big picture here. Warburton has had more financial backing than all but one side in Scottish football.

Yes we require more to be challenging the scum but that's a different matter all together than what we are talking about here. We are being scudded by Hearts and dropping points all over the place while looking like the side has been put together overnight....Are folk really telling me Mourinho couldn't do better than Warburton? Ermmmm don't be daft....

We should realistically be way out in second place while looking like we are capable of scudding sides like Morton but in reality we are hanging on at home and relying on them missing open goals and sitters.

Warburton has pissed away all the money he was given which as we already know was more than everyone else bar the tims.

Barton, Niko, Rossiter, Garner, MOH, Senderos, Crooks, Windass and so on... How many of his signings have actually worked out? It's just really poor whichever way you try to look at it.

Funding is an issue but it's certainly not a good enough excuse to why we are third in this shithouse of a league.

 

[jackrfc95 4,255]

39 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

Which managers where?

Every single manager in the league apart from Rodgers.

[graeme_4 34,876]

Warburton was hampered by the boards lack of 'real' investment.

The players were hamstrung by Warburton's system.

Board, manager and players aren't / weren't good enough to compete with Celtic, which is where the benchmark is at the moment.