Bates

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,723]

2 minutes ago, RogueBear said:

 

You just said it yourself, a forum is for reasoning, debating etc. Unfortunately you don't seem capable of reasonable debate, So no matter what I say, you will always consider yourself right. 

Of course nerves were going to affect him, whether you consider him a man or not is irrelevant. How many times have we spoken about the occasion getting the better of players far more experienced than him? Even after playing in Italy, the Euros and the World cup, Gascoigne had to have a double before his first old firm game. To say nerves shouldn't affect a player is the dumbest thing I've heard in weeks. 

He might be a pro footballer but he IS young, not used to a full Ibrox and played less than the equivalent of 10 hours of football for Rangers. Playing at Ibrox is a big step up from what he was used to. I'm going to show you a little more respect than you seem to show anyone else and assume you don't work stacking shelves at Aldi. Were you able to do your job perfectly after 10 hours? Mind you didn't have 50k people watching you either.  

My post originally didn't single you out, I merely suggested that rather than fans calling him shite they considered how they were talking about him. He is one of our own after all. Its really not difficult to understand, unless your angry all the time I suppose

Ok, so I'll take from that most posters didn't say he suffered from big crowd nerves after all.

I certainly never said it, nor have I said he was particularly poor on Thursday, I do consider him a poor player however.

Shelf stackers in Aldi get paid well above the minimum wage. Store managers can get up to £50k and area managers 60k and compamy car. Whats so wrong with Aldi?

You must lead a very sheltered life if you are genuinely concerned by the affect posts on here have on professional footballers. 

 

[kelvd1873 7,159]

2 hours ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Because it's a thread, on a football forum, about a player I consider to be pretty shit yet is in the Rangers first team. Others disagree, fine.

Given I consider him poor, I've documented what I consider specific aspects of his play that give me cause for concern and I believe illustrate some of his short comings. Rather than just say he's shite but not justify the comment.

Is it really that difficult a concept?

And are you suggesting that if posters are not good enough to play for Rangers we're not in a position to criticise them?

My point is I think the criticism is heavy and of course supporters are going to have a go. But the guy is young and needs encouragement especially imo he hasn't really done anything wrong. Fair enough you don't fancy the guy that's your view and your entitled to it.

[Cedrick 8,048]

1 minute ago, kelvd1873 said:

My point is I think the criticism is heavy and of course supporters are going to have a go. But the guy is young and needs encouragement especially imo he hasn't really done anything wrong. Fair enough you don't fancy the guy that's your view and your entitled to it.

Spot on mate , if bates performed the same way but was tanned with dark hair there wouldn't be a criticism of him in my opinion , fucking sad to be honest 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,723]

17 minutes ago, kelvd1873 said:

My point is I think the criticism is heavy and of course supporters are going to have a go. But the guy is young and needs encouragement especially imo he hasn't really done anything wrong. Fair enough you don't fancy the guy that's your view and your entitled to it.

I think the general consensus both here and at the games is supportive. I am probably in the minority even on this thread, I don't believe the criticism is actually heavy.

You might think he needs encouragement. I think he needs replaced asap and to develop either on loan or otherwise elsewhere. 

[RogueBear 28]

15 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Ok, so I'll take from that most posters didn't say he suffered from big crowd nerves after all.

I certainly never said it, nor have I said he was particularly poor on Thursday, I do consider him a poor player however.

Shelf stackers in Aldi get paid well above the minimum wage. Store managers can get up to £50k and area managers 60k and compamy car. Whats so wrong with Aldi?

You must lead a very sheltered life if you are genuinely concerned by the affect posts on here have on professional footballers. 

 

Sheltered? I wish. But through work I've seen first hand how badly some young folk can be affected by social media. I've known kids that have committed suicide because they were so badly affected by what they percieve as abuse online. Trust me, I wouldn't normally give a shit what you say if it wasn't something that I thought was pretty important nowadays. Maybe you have a bit of a sheltered life though, if you don't understand how important social media is in young peoples lives nowadays. Things that might not bother you or me can devastate someone around that age. 

And no, what you should take from that is that I'm not going to go back through the thread cherrypicking parts that suit me. Frankly, thats Timmy behaviour.

Are you really saying you don't think online forums, twitter and Facebook have no affect on a players mental health? Do you think players don't check online to see what fans think of them? 

Aldi rocks, who knew!

 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,723]

2 hours ago, RogueBear said:

Sheltered? I wish. But through work I've seen first hand how badly some young folk can be affected by social media. I've known kids that have committed suicide because they were so badly affected by what they percieve as abuse online. Trust me, I wouldn't normally give a shit what you say if it wasn't something that I thought was pretty important nowadays. Maybe you have a bit of a sheltered life though, if you don't understand how important social media is in young peoples lives nowadays. Things that might not bother you or me can devastate someone around that age. 

And no, what you should take from that is that I'm not going to go back through the thread cherrypicking parts that suit me. Frankly, thats Timmy behaviour.

Are you really saying you don't think online forums, twitter and Facebook have no affect on a players mental health? Do you think players don't check online to see what fans think of them? 

Aldi rocks, who knew!

 

I think you're off at a mega tangent and talking shite in the context of Bates specifically and footballers in general.

And excusing failing to prove your point by calling it Timmy behaviour. ??????

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,545]

when do players stop being young and start being not good enough, charlie telfer has just turned 21 and played more senior games in his career (impressive given he didnt get a look in until he was 18) yet look at the thread about him in the other sports section

bates will never be good enough for us, if he was, he wouldnt have been at raith until he was 19 and released by raith at 20

[RogueBear 28]

45 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

I think you're off at a mega tangent and talking shite in the context of Bates specifically and footballers in general.

And excusing failing to prove your point by calling it Timmy behaviour. ??????

oh well if you think I'm talking shite........

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,723]

2 hours ago, RogueBear said:

oh well if you think I'm talking shite........

You are talking shite.

[esquire8 42,731]

Let him go away on loan or sell. Once Alves and Wilson get back he shouldn't be anywhere near the first 11 and not in the u20s. Keep McCrorie and Wilson jr as backup. 

[DrLaudrup 4,606]

On 01/07/2017 at 2:36 PM, kelvd1873 said:

My point is I think the criticism is heavy and of course supporters are going to have a go. But the guy is young and needs encouragement especially imo he hasn't really done anything wrong. Fair enough you don't fancy the guy that's your view and your entitled to it.

Good post. Nobody is saying he is going to be like Pepe or Puyol or whatever but he is a young player coming from a small club. For me, he already looks better than guys like Kiernan who have played at a higher level for longer. Yes he has shortcomings and how much he improves will depend on his inate ability, his attitude, and what he learns from guys like Alves. He wont play every week regardless. I do worry that we constantly demand our young players to immediate world beaters. If they are not good enough after a period of course they should be moved on, the same will apply to Bates. Getting excessive criticism from your own fans when you are still trying to establish your career will not help any player. 

[Ryju84 3,170]

Bates has made mistakes. And I have slagged him a few times.

One thing he done in his last last season game, and against Progres, was take the safe option. Thats the small positive I see.

When he first played in the first team he tried to be fancy and run with the ball. But it seems he has been told that if he is under pressure just boot the ball to fuck.

Reminds me of Broadfoot in that sense.

[kelvd1873 7,159]

2 hours ago, DrLaudrup said:

Good post. Nobody is saying he is going to be like Pepe or Puyol or whatever but he is a young player coming from a small club. For me, he already looks better than guys like Kiernan who have played at a higher level for longer. Yes he has shortcomings and how much he improves will depend on his inate ability, his attitude, and what he learns from guys like Alves. He wont play every week regardless. I do worry that we constantly demand our young players to immediate world beaters. If they are not good enough after a period of course they should be moved on, the same will apply to Bates. Getting excessive criticism from your own fans when you are still trying to establish your career will not help any player. 

Could not have said this better myself mate??

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,723]

2 hours ago, DrLaudrup said:

Good post. Nobody is saying he is going to be like Pepe or Puyol or whatever but he is a young player coming from a small club. For me, he already looks better than guys like Kiernan who have played at a higher level for longer. Yes he has shortcomings and how much he improves will depend on his inate ability, his attitude, and what he learns from guys like Alves. He wont play every week regardless. I do worry that we constantly demand our young players to immediate world beaters. If they are not good enough after a period of course they should be moved on, the same will apply to Bates. Getting excessive criticism from your own fans when you are still trying to establish your career will not help any player. 

"Excessive"

Fucking behave.

[El-Hadji Spit RFC 733]

Limited ability... if Bruno or Cardoso got injured I'm not sure how I'd feel with bates going into an old firm match, in fact I know I'd be less confident!! 

For cover yes but should be 4th/5th choice IMO

[Alves70 393]

Think we definitely need another CB in before the end of the window.

As others have said if Cardoso and Alves picked up long term injuries we really have very little quality as backup. Bates to be fair to the guy is only really emergency cover at best.

If we do make it to the EL group stage that's a potential 14 European games on top of SPFL and League cup games before Xmas. That's a lot of football to expect the same two CBs to play in every game till then.

[OneDavidCooper 2,505]

On 1 July 2017 at 0:11 PM, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Because it's a thread, on a football forum, about a player I consider to be pretty shit yet is in the Rangers first team. Others disagree, fine.

Given I consider him poor, I've documented what I consider specific aspects of his play that give me cause for concern and I believe illustrate some of his short comings. Rather than just say he's shite but not justify the comment.

Is it really that difficult a concept?

And are you suggesting that if posters are not good enough to play for Rangers we're not in a position to criticise them?

Spot on

[Vanoli 4,625]

The boy is doing fine. He defends pretty well and has a solid grasp of the basics. On the ball he's a liability, but there's ways around that as a cb - Marvin Andrews, David Weir among others over the years we're all pish on the ball and did well for us. He, Aidan Wilson and McCrorie will all ideally step back and play week in week out for the 20s , covering Alves, Cardoso and Danny Wilson where necessary - is probably assume one of them will go on loan though. All three of them are solid enough young players, who will grow into established SPFL level players - perfectly well equiped enough for me to battle between themselves for 4th place in our defensive hierarchy. 

The only small issue i have with our centre half options is Danny Wilson, i maintain there's a perfectly good player in there - but he carried a fair few injuries last season which hampered a decent run from him under Pedro. Hopefully he's came through the other side of those problems now.  

[giffnockger 4,840]

Defos gona be starting tomorrow night, decent experience for the boy! Hopefully straight forward job 

[SPWF 8,232]

On 02/07/2017 at 5:57 PM, DrLaudrup said:

Good post. Nobody is saying he is going to be like Pepe or Puyol or whatever but he is a young player coming from a small club. For me, he already looks better than guys like Kiernan who have played at a higher level for longer. Yes he has shortcomings and how much he improves will depend on his inate ability, his attitude, and what he learns from guys like Alves. He wont play every week regardless. I do worry that we constantly demand our young players to immediate world beaters. If they are not good enough after a period of course they should be moved on, the same will apply to Bates. Getting excessive criticism from your own fans when you are still trying to establish your career will not help any player. 

Excessive. Hardly. 

The boy isn't gettin stick from the crowd, yet, although it's only a matter of time. Our support is terrible for getting on the backs of our own. I'd never get involved in that, but when someone starts a thread on a player it's perfectly acceptable to state your own opinion, positive or negative.