Another doom and gloom Daryll "exclusive"

[FieldMarshall85 16]

If we were told the 100% truth -- say from AJ -- no matter how bad it is, we would accept it imho. We just need to know.

All these 'exclusives' are getting beyond silly.

I said it earlier in this thread but the 100% truth will reflect very badly indeed on Murray, hence the reason why no-one at the club will come out and spell it all out for us.

[gruggs 221]

Definitely a bit of sensationalistic journalism here. It is quite possible that HMRC may have raised an enquiry into the EBT's it does not mean anything is wrong.

I have been involved in establishing a number of EBT over the last few years and there is certainly nothing illegal about it. It is about tax avoidance rather than tax evasion. The HMRC tried to win a case a number of years ago on the EBT's (Dextra case) and whilst they won on a number of aspects they lost out on the fundemental issue. The net result was whilst previously a number of companies used to take the donations to the trusts as tax deductible they now do not take the deduction.

The Labour government has expressed an interest in closing the tax loophole and legislation was widely expected over the last few budgets. The closest it has come to it in the last budget was to say it was reviewing these schemes with a view to legislation from April 2011.

If is highly unlikely that any such legislation will be retrospective and therefore as Rangers have not operated these trusts for a number of years there "should" be no repurcussion.

I would expect this to go absolutely no where in the long term.

[caseyjones 3,009]

A call for non-renewal of ST until the club announces it's plans for the season?

"Due to the poor uptake in ST sales, RFC have been forced to cut our planned budget to make up the shortfall etc......."

Only those with a vested interest in our club being forced to downsize even further, would come out with that nonsense.

What are you havering about? So anyone massively concerned at the state of our club who suggests we use the only leverage we have with Lloyds wants us to downsize further?

Like many concerned fans i merely want to know what these plans are that are being alluded to and why Walter Smith is making noises about walking away from the club he loves.

We need to bring down costs to balance the books, that is plain for all to see. Murray has put us in this position and we need to work our way out of it, however painful that may be. Calling for a ST boycott will only make the cuts deeper. How can that help the club in any way. They need to budget based on what income they have.

As for Walter, he contradicts himself time after time. He should either put up, or shut up. I don't remember him having anything to say on financial matters when him and "Sir David" were spending money we didn't have post Kaunas, merely to appease the support who were starting to ask some difficult questions.

[LegendofCoop 17,440]

Surely now that this story is in the public domain, it will be easily confirmed/denied by either/both Rangers & HMRC?

I expect something from them to be in tonights news rounds!

[FieldMarshall85 16]

Surely now that this story is in the public domain, it will be easily confirmed/denied by either/both Rangers & HMRC?

I expect something from them to be in tonights news rounds!

Prepare to be disappointed

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I've probably tired him out mate. You might want to wait until tomorrow

My turn with you

[*Manticore* 1,893]

I've probably tired him out mate. You might want to wait until tomorrow

My turn with you

You ain't getting near me! Not after last time...

I'll leave the dog at home this time.

[Frankie 505]

As always Carino's opinion is worthy of rumination on FF:

From 2001 Rangers have been paying employees elements of their salaries via trust funds - The Rangers Employee Benefit Trust and the Murray Group Management Ltd. Remuneration Trust.

Payments to the trusts were first made in 2001 and have continued since thus:

2001 - £1.01 million

2002 - £5.17 million

2003 - £6.79 million

2004 - £7.25 million

2005 - £7.24 million

2006 - £9.19 million

2007 - £4.9 million

2008 - £2.29 million

2009 - 2.36 million.

All of which makes a publically declared total of £46.28 million signed off on by professional people.

Darrell King is as ever not really delivering much in the way of new information - the HMRC query to the club having been trailed by James Mulholland in the News of the World last Sunday.

Time will be the eventual judge but today's King piece has the hallmark of the vested interest - as has much of his recent work on Rangers.

[gandhisflip 5]

A call for non-renewal of ST until the club announces it's plans for the season?

"Due to the poor uptake in ST sales, RFC have been forced to cut our planned budget to make up the shortfall etc......."

Only those with a vested interest in our club being forced to downsize even further, would come out with that nonsense.

What are you havering about? So anyone massively concerned at the state of our club who suggests we use the only leverage we have with Lloyds wants us to downsize further?

Like many concerned fans i merely want to know what these plans are that are being alluded to and why Walter Smith is making noises about walking away from the club he loves.

We need to bring down costs to balance the books, that is plain for all to see. Murray has put us in this position and we need to work our way out of it, however painful that may be. Calling for a ST boycott will only make the cuts deeper. How can that help the club in any way. They need to budget based on what income they have.

As for Walter, he contradicts himself time after time. He should either put up, or shut up. I don't remember him having anything to say on financial matters when him and "Sir David" were spending money we didn't have post Kaunas, merely to appease the support who were starting to ask some difficult questions.

Casey - think you're missing the point. Im calling for a large section of the fans to hold off renewing asking for answers from the bank as to this business plan before committing their funds.

If we are on course for a £10m profit this year, and probably more next season (with reduced costs and increased CL revenues) then why can't Smith be given a contract and why shouldn't he be allowed to use profit from any player sales to refresh the squad? The alternative is losing key players, not being able to replace them, missing out on the league, ditto CL money and far lower season tickets sales in future seasons. Rangers become less and less competitive, and less attractive to investors but Lloyds get there money back in double quick time despite loaning us it over a 30yr period.

Frankly f**k that for a game of soldiers. I'm happy that Rangers is run to a more realistic budget and that more young players get a chance. However im not going to sit nicely while the bank ruin our club over the course of 1 or 2 seasons in order that they can get their cash back 30 times quicker than originally agreed, because their greed f**ked the economy in the first place.

[Johnson 27]

The sooner we know the truth the better. Personally I won't believe anything until I hear it directly from the club.

Evening Times site has been updated.

Rangers FC confirm it is part of a pending court case, but say they will defend it vigorously.

[Frankie 505]

Club confirms investigation and pending court case...

Rangers today confirmed they are under investigation from HM Revenue and Customs over offshore payments made to players.

The case could see the club hit with a backdated tax bill running to millions of pounds.

A spokesman for Rangers said: “The Club can confirm that there is a ongoing query raised by HMRC which is part of a pending court case.

"On the basis of expert tax advice provided to Rangers, the Club is robustly defending the matters raised. It would be therefore be inappropriate to comment further at this stage.

“There is endless speculation about the future of the Club, much of it ill-informed. It is to no-one’s benefit to comment on every speculative opinion.”

A source today confirmed to the Evening Times what the implications could be and conceded the club is “unsellable” unless any prospective buyer is given a written warranty that any sums owed to HMRC – once the investigation is complete – will be picked up by its banker, Lloyds, or the club’s owner, Murray International Holdings.

The payments, which began a decade ago to some of Rangers biggest stars, are believed to have been made into an employee remuneration trust.

This is a controversial loophole that has seen the taxman launch investigations into a string of English Premiership clubs who have also used the same payment methods in players’ contracts, along with payments for image rights.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/editor-s-picks-ignore/taxman-targets-rangers-1.1023503

[Orangeclement 572]

so to sum up :

the Government has fucked up big time with the countries finances and will use any method it can to try and claw some money from business using any tactic they can .

[caseyjones 3,009]

A call for non-renewal of ST until the club announces it's plans for the season?

"Due to the poor uptake in ST sales, RFC have been forced to cut our planned budget to make up the shortfall etc......."

Only those with a vested interest in our club being forced to downsize even further, would come out with that nonsense.

What are you havering about? So anyone massively concerned at the state of our club who suggests we use the only leverage we have with Lloyds wants us to downsize further?

Like many concerned fans i merely want to know what these plans are that are being alluded to and why Walter Smith is making noises about walking away from the club he loves.

We need to bring down costs to balance the books, that is plain for all to see. Murray has put us in this position and we need to work our way out of it, however painful that may be. Calling for a ST boycott will only make the cuts deeper. How can that help the club in any way. They need to budget based on what income they have.

As for Walter, he contradicts himself time after time. He should either put up, or shut up. I don't remember him having anything to say on financial matters when him and "Sir David" were spending money we didn't have post Kaunas, merely to appease the support who were starting to ask some difficult questions.

Casey - think you're missing the point. Im calling for a large section of the fans to hold off renewing asking for answers from the bank as to this business plan before committing their funds.

If we are on course for a £10m profit this year, and probably more next season (with reduced costs and increased CL revenues) then why can't Smith be given a contract and why shouldn't he be allowed to use profit from any player sales to refresh the squad? The alternative is losing key players, not being able to replace them, missing out on the league, ditto CL money and far lower season tickets sales in future seasons. Rangers become less and less competitive, and less attractive to investors but Lloyds get there money back in double quick time despite loaning us it over a 30yr period.

Frankly f**k that for a game of soldiers. I'm happy that Rangers is run to a more realistic budget and that more young players get a chance. However im not going to sit nicely while the bank ruin our club over the course of 1 or 2 seasons in order that they can get their cash back 30 times quicker than originally agreed, because their greed f**ked the economy in the first place.

If you can point me to where Lloyds have shown any intention of getting the debt repaid in 1 or 2 years, then I will back your calls for a boycott. This does not include the ramblings of our manager.

As to your point about offering the management team long term contracts, why? In these uncertain times what would be the point in exposing us to possible compensation payments to people who are prepared to work without them? It's not as he they are not being paid.

[docspiderman 1,248]

I have read this thread and have a feeling of amusement and bemusement.

I am not an accountant or financial expert but I can find no evidence or the vaguest suggestion that Lloyds have any intention of reneging on the agreement in place to repay our debt or cancel our overdraft agreement which is due to be reviewed in December.

With regard to Dave King; I believe, unless he has a barrowload of cash(readies) hidden somewhere, he could not and still cannot make an offer to buy the club or any other business since all of his and his relatives assets are frozen.

If people wish to find out about the finances of the club just read the published accounts rather than ramblings of a untalented journalist whose credibility has been been found wanting several times already this year.

[lancedeangers1 287]

It mentions there has been similar investigations into EPL clubs but it doesn't state what those outcomes were ?

What I am trying to ascertain from what vague information we have is what is the likely outcome of such an investigation ?

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

already posted

[mac444 6]

All these stories lose all credibility as soon as Dave King is mentioned, even more so when it has darrylls name mentioned too

[gandhisflip 5]

Casey - think you're missing the point. Im calling for a large section of the fans to hold off renewing asking for answers from the bank as to this business plan before committing their funds.

If we are on course for a £10m profit this year, and probably more next season (with reduced costs and increased CL revenues) then why can't Smith be given a contract and why shouldn't he be allowed to use profit from any player sales to refresh the squad? The alternative is losing key players, not being able to replace them, missing out on the league, ditto CL money and far lower season tickets sales in future seasons. Rangers become less and less competitive, and less attractive to investors but Lloyds get there money back in double quick time despite loaning us it over a 30yr period.

Frankly f**k that for a game of soldiers. I'm happy that Rangers is run to a more realistic budget and that more young players get a chance. However im not going to sit nicely while the bank ruin our club over the course of 1 or 2 seasons in order that they can get their cash back 30 times quicker than originally agreed, because their greed f**ked the economy in the first place.

If you can point me to where Lloyds have shown any intention of getting the debt repaid in 1 or 2 years, then I will back your calls for a boycott. This does not include the ramblings of our manager.

As to your point about offering the management team long term contracts, why? In these uncertain times what would be the point in exposing us to possible compensation payments to people who are prepared to work without them? It's not as he they are not being paid.

As per the management team - key players will not sign new offers, rebuff other teams unless they know what the future holds for the club. As the squad almost to a man have come out backing Smith on this i'd say it's a problem.

Uncertainty - with all this noise and lack of clarity why don't the bank come out and confirm their plans for the club rather than allow this drip feed if it's nonsense? This all affects our capabilities of holding onto key talent like Wilson/Davis or at least getting a good price for them on the market.

I don't have any proof as to Lloyds looking for an instant repayment - however i have to ask why players aren't being signed on extensions? Why the manager isn't at least given a small budget for transfers (even £1-2m for a few Scottish or Scandanavian types)?

If the debt is to be repaid over 30yrs what benefit is there in ensuring we lack the capability to compete for titles and European cash? Surely with the club now being "profitable" that's the course we should continue to pursue? Why is the manager talking about devasting cuts?

[Guest therabbitt]

As ever, if anyone wishes to comment on this story in the form of an article, however long or short, then please forward them on to me via PM or email.

No censorship either, you're opinion is your own.

[*Manticore* 1,893]

As ever, if anyone wishes to comment on this story in the form of an article, however long or short, then please forward them on to me via PM or email.

No censorship either, you're opinion is your own.

Article:

Sir David Murray is a cunt.

The End.

[Orangeclement 572]

Pm Manti FFS

[Chookes 21]

Article:

Sir David Murray is a cunt.

The End.

Good read .

[nvager 498]

Forget this tax business - it will be the subject of a court case in the future and Rangers may well win it.

Clarification on what is going to happen this Summer is required urgently and can only come from AJ or MB in my opinion.

Anything else is just speculation and should not be taken seriously.

Frankly speaking it is likely that players will leave and some will be sold. Our pool of players will be reduced and a little money from the sale of players used to bring in some others. Next season youth will be given a chance for sure.

We still be able to challenge in the SPL, but in the CL we will struggle big time.

[disgruntled_bear 157]

Well a lot of things are starting to come out slowly now... This big announcement by the end of the week might not be just speculation.

Sky Sports news are reporting it now.

[bmccall 0]

Off-shore payment to players? What the fuck is going on?