Hardie away to St mirren on loan

[Sam English Loyal 945]

Unless we sign another centre forward he'd be better staying put. 

[Inigo 32,534]

8 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

The only real difference would be playing in stadiums with fans being there.

 

Probably better standard of player (with some experience to boot) as well. And some genuine, meaningful matches with the stresses involved.

I'd also hazard a guess that most players from the U20s league don't end up amounting to even Championship level.

[WGOH 2,344]

Just now, Inigo said:

I think he's probably not as close to the first team this year as we might think. The fact that other top div teams don't want to take a risk on him also suggests he's probably not at the level for us yet. With the squad we've got now, he'd get very little opportunity. The coaches see him every day, so he knows better than anyone what he's ready for. 

Personally, I like loans. I think real, meaningful game experience against half decent players with a modicum of nous, in stadiums with a crowd of some sort, is important for young prospects, even if it means dropping down a level. I think he'll benefit from it just as others have in the past. I don't think it's a coincidence that so many managers think it's a good idea and it is more beneficial than U20s.

 

That's what I'm saying mate, I think he does need to go out on loan to earn the experience which is going to push him towards the first team more regularly, but I just don't see the point in sending him to teams like St Mirren, who probably won't be challenging for the league and most likely won't be fighting relegation. Maybe it is a good thing that it is only until January, because then, at least, the coaches and manager can see what shape he is in and if it is beneficial for him to go back out on loan (hopefully to a better team) or stay put and fight for his place. 

[Inigo 32,534]

3 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

You said improved him which is the same thing.

and yes, that's a point obviously Warburton doesn't agree with me - or maybe Warburton just doesn't think he will make it at Rangers. Any young player he's been serious about (McKay springs to mind) hasn't been loaned out. There's no evidence that the ones he's shipped out on loan is any part of his plans.

McKay had already been out on loan at Hardie's age though.

[ianferguson 2,619]

3 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

You said improved him which is the same thing.

and yes, that's a point obviously Warburton doesn't agree with me - or maybe Warburton just doesn't think he will make it at Rangers. Any young player he's been serious about (McKay springs to mind) hasn't been loaned out. There's no evidence that the ones he's shipped out on loan is any part of his plans.

That's the one thing you've certainly got over Warburton, a plan B ???,

[K.A.I 36,183]

3 minutes ago, Inigo said:

McKay had already been out on loan at Hardie's age though.

I know and I'm glad you mentioned that actually as he done absolutely nothing on loan at any of the clubs. In fact the Morton fans wanted him punted back which makes me think the more talented players we've got that are young are much better staying put at Auchenhowie and training with Warburton and the first team and learning as McKay has came on leaps and bounds doing that compared to any loans he had. The loans did him zero good - he admitted it himself mate.

[Inigo 32,534]

1 minute ago, WGOH said:

That's what I'm saying mate, I think he does need to go out on loan to earn the experience which is going to push him towards the first team more regularly, but I just don't see the point in sending him to teams like St Mirren, who probably won't be challenging for the league and most likely won't be fighting relegation. Maybe it is a good thing that it is only until January, because then, at least, the coaches and manager can see what shape he is in and if it is beneficial for him to go back out on loan (hopefully to a better team) or stay put and fight for his place. 

Couldn't tell you how good St Mirren will be. And I'll accept it also depends what kind of coach Rae is. A plum of a coach probably wouldn't be that great. 

Still think mid-table Championship is better than U20s football though. I guess St Mirren was the best club that wanted him.

[Bigsasasfloppyhair 13,310]

Hope he scores a load.

Especially against hibs and Dundee utd.

[WGOH 2,344]

6 minutes ago, Inigo said:

Couldn't tell you how good St Mirren will be. And I'll accept it also depends what kind of coach Rae is. A plum of a coach probably wouldn't be that great. 

Still think mid-table Championship is better than U20s football though. I guess St Mirren was the best club that wanted him.

 

 

Hopefully it does him good, although I'm very skeptical. We shall see come January. 

[Inigo 32,534]

Just now, K.A.I said:

I know and I'm glad you mentioned that actually as he done absolutely nothing on loan at any of the clubs. In fact the Morton fans wanted him punted back which makes me thing the more talented players we've got that are young are much better staying put at Auchenhowie and training with Warburton and the first team and learning as McKay has came on leaps and bounds doing that compared to any loans he had. The loans did him zero good - he admitted it himself mate.

Dunno about that. I think the ends justifies McKay's loans. I'm not sure I'd take Morton fan views as the best judge of that. 

I'd guess that the Morton and Raith Rovers stints served him well. It's good for the maturing process in quite a few ways that I can think of. 

I mean we don't know the benefits for sure, or that Barrie wouldn't have become the same player anyway, but it seems logical to me that this kind of thing helps.

In the interview I saw on RTV he said the loans had been important for him.

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, Inigo said:

Dunno about that. I think the ends justifies McKay's loans. I'm not sure I'd take Morton fan views as the best judge of that. 

I'd guess that the Morton and Raith Rovers stints served him well. It's good for the maturing process in quite a few ways that I can think of. 

I mean we don't know the benefits for sure, or that Barrie wouldn't have become the same player anyway, but it seems logical to me that this kind of thing helps.

In the interview I saw on RTV he said the loans had been important for him.

He was quoted in the papers last season saying he didn't like the loans and didn't find them helpful. I'm more inclined to believe that than anything he says sat in front of Rangers TV camera's toe'ing the line so to speak.

My point is (and I honestly think you can use Mckay as proof) that a decent player is better served working with Warburton than going to a Raith, St Mirren, Airdrie or whatever. There's no way McKay would be the player he is now if he wasn't working with Warburton and his methods every single day. I don't think there's any doubt about it.

But as the other poster said earlier, Warburton obviously disagree's with me. But I think this is his last chance to impress. I want him to push on with us and not be another Calum Gallacher (immense in the reserves/U20's but get's released and never really hits any heights again)

[Ivybank 4,589]

Would have preferred him to go to an English team ,rather than playing in that league,done nothing for mckay

or Thomson,playing against 3rd rate cloggers in Scotland with no ability is hardly going to improve him

[Prso's headband 35,569]

Would have liked him go to a Hamilton or Partick Thistle. 

This season he needs to show on a consistent basis he has what it takes to play for Rangers. I hope he comes good and eventually breaks into the first team. 

[kanjo 26,332]

Actually fancy St. Mirren to do well this season. Alex has built a decent team there. 

[Allanger 625]

Good luck to the lad. Hope he comes back in January a better all round player.

[MasterD 7,436]

1 hour ago, K.A.I said:

Not against him going out on loan in principle but St Mirren is not a good move for him or us. Alex Rae is a rotten manager and St Mirren will struggle this season I think.

If a lower league English team or lower-mid table top flight team like a St Johnstone or Partick aren't interested then he will learn more training with the first team at Auchenhowie under Warburton's methods in my honest opinion.

Agree with the Rae being a rotten manager part. It's actually a backwards move from last year for him IMO.

Only last week Warburton was saying we need to get the players out of their comfort zone and loaned out to the lower leagues in England rather than locally just because it's easier to loan them nearby. Since then we've loaned out a couple of players to local teams.

I think the reality is that the guys out on loan are playing for their next permanent move rather than their Rangers future.

[ThatNightInFlorence 696]

St. Mirren are putting together a decent side for that division, hope they finish above Hibs and the Arabs! 

[Smile 26,610]

I would have played him pre-season and these cup games before Miller just to see if he had what it takes. We all know what Miller brings it could have gave us a good problem.

[Orangeclement 570]

7 minutes ago, MasterD said:

Agree with the Rae being a rotten manager part. It's actually a backwards move from last year for him IMO.

Only last week Warburton was saying we need to get the players out of their comfort zone and loaned out to the lower leagues in England rather than locally just because it's easier to loan them nearby. Since then we've loaned out a couple of players to local teams.

I think the reality is that the guys out on loan are playing for their next permanent move rather than their Rangers future.

I would imagine that no teams down south want to take a chance on players from up here. Due to loan rules etc probably easier to loan players in their area .

[james_85 656]

1 hour ago, Ivybank said:

Would have preferred him to go to an English team ,rather than playing in that league,done nothing for mckay

or Thomson,playing against 3rd rate cloggers in Scotland with no ability is hardly going to improve him

Who in the English league would you like to go to? We are picking up Accrington Stanley's best players and they play in division 2. Who is going to take someone who cant play in our first 11 while we were in the championship. I would have liked to have seen him go to a better team as well but this deal is the best that woe could have hoped for.

I know Warburton has mention about trying to get some of the  younger boys down to England but I cant see who would be willing to take our younger players on.

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

I hope he does well, that he gets a good amount of time actually playing, and that it works out for him.

But it seems to me this shows a big lack of ambition both by the player and by Rangers.    We'd be treated recently to the gospel of player development by MW where he (a) wants players playing in competitive meaningful games and (b) playing down South where the quality of football is higher.   Not sure how much of (a) will happen at St M but it definitely does not hit the mark in achieving (b).    So despite making it clear that he wants players to develop by loan deals with English clubs and observing that Scots youngsters don't travel well here we have another youngster who is travelling all of a few miles to try to get a game of football.  

It begs some questions -  was he offered to any English clubs, did he not want to travel down South, were there no English club takers, was this the only credible loan deal on offer?   On the face of it a loan deal that does not inspire much confidence that he will develop any more, or any more quickly, than his loan deal at RR last season.   Feels like an 'oh well that'll do' type of deal rather than one designed to provide a good challenge to push on.

[B1872 20,797]

Good move as he'll be down the pecking order when we sign Grigg! ??

[Misteral 2,932]

Let's ask the protagonists; "What are your feelings about this loan move?"

MW: It will be good for Ryan, We expect he'll get plenty of game minutes against challenging defenders and that can only be good for the lad at this moment in time. We'll reassess the situation in January

AR: Delighted to get the young man. He'll be pressing for plenty of game minutes and he will be wanting to bang in a few goals for us, I'm sure

RH: It;s the right move for me. I'll have a better opportunity to get game minutes against challenging opposition and I'll be hoping to take my chances when they arise and try to get some goals and improve as a player

[borderbear 150]

Good move for the lad, 6 months of playing week in week out will be the making of him. If he helps keep the Edinburgh and Dundee Hibs down in the process all the better. 

[kaiser1041 9,088]

So the new striker should be In soon then