Why Do Managers Not See What Fans See?

[EatDolphins 5,355]

You should probably reverse the question and have a think. 

[cushynumber 25,178]

for me the concern was actually the midfield on Saturday. It looked disjointed with Barton sitting far to deep,  big Nico doing nothing and Halliday working his socks off but largely ineffective. The midfield lacked drive so an area of the park I thought that  - on paper at least - we had strengthened since last year actually looked weaker.

[Big Al 55 9,275]

2 hours ago, Bluepeter9 said:

5 competitive games into the season and we have lost 1 goal. Not exactly as leaky as folks make out. On Saturday attack was our issue not defence.

Managers have to look at the whole thing and juggle priorities - also we have a style of play that is always going to expose a centre back pairing - And defends in a different way from the 2 lines of 4 we have utilised for a long time. 

Further MW is on record as saying we are looking for another CB and we brought in the experienced Hill so it's not like defence is not being looked at.

managers miss less than fans think but difference is they actually have to make decisions in advance and not with hindsight. 

 the defence is now the scapegoat, can't remember Hamilton having too many other chances, Kiernon deflected the cross which meant Hill couldn't clear it properly, then Wallace was incredibly slow getting to the player giving him time to turn and compose himself, however he still had to produce a fantastic finish.

The problem on Sat was the fact we produced very little and MW waited far too long to change it. MOH deserved a start IMO, also I suspect young Harry has played himself into a starting role.   

[KeyserSoze 14,579]

4 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

 the defence is now the scapegoat, can't remember Hamilton having too many other chances, Kiernon deflected the cross which meant Hill couldn't clear it properly, then Wallace was incredibly slow getting to the player giving him time to turn and compose himself, however he still had to produce a fantastic finish.

The problem on Sat was the fact we produced very little and MW waited far too long to change it. MOH deserved a start IMO, also I suspect young Harry has played himself into a starting role.   

Good summation 

i doubt the gaffer will ever drop the 60min sub thing. It's been a whole season of it so far and doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon. 

What does 15 mins into the second half tell a manager. Tiredness? Poor form? What? Nothing he didn't know from the first half surely. 

Furthermore- Kranjcar should not be getting game time to increase his fitness. He should be doing that out with match day. 

[Prso's headband 35,511]

17 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

 the defence is now the scapegoat, can't remember Hamilton having too many other chances, Kiernon deflected the cross which meant Hill couldn't clear it properly, then Wallace was incredibly slow getting to the player giving him time to turn and compose himself, however he still had to produce a fantastic finish.

The problem on Sat was the fact we produced very little and MW waited far too long to change it. MOH deserved a start IMO, also I suspect young Harry has played himself into a starting role.   

I think Wallace has got an easy time of it on here after his performance on Saturday. When you have Krancjar trying to stop a goal scoring attempt, albeit unsuccessfully, in the left back position where was Wallace? Seemed to take him an age to get back into play and by that time it was in the roof of the net. 

Other than that the defence was fine, which is the problem as 75% of home games this season will consist of that on Saturday, one lapse of concentration and it's a goal. 

[sammy cox 664]

7 minutes ago, Prso's headband said:

I think Wallace has got an easy time of it on here after his performance on Saturday. When you have Krancjar trying to stop a goal scoring attempt, albeit unsuccessfully, in the left back position where was Wallace? Seemed to take him an age to get back into play and by that time it was in the roof of the net. 

Other than that the defence was fine, which is the problem as 75% of home games this season will consist of that on Saturday, one lapse of concentration and it's a goal. 

That's a fair point.When people talk about our defensive frailties it's only a 3 man defence,Tav,Wilson,Kiernan.I said on here last week that every player has to up their game not just the usual scapegoats.

[james_85 656]

I felt as if both full backs were playing about 10 yards further back than they were last year. it seemed that when the CB's were looking to play the ball out wide it was a pass along the line rather than looking to play it forward. I dont know if Warburton has told them not to bomb forward as much as we need to be tighter at the back.  Also I dont understand bringing everyone back for the corners, last year it was always the 3 forwards on the half way line, it just encourages the other team to throw more players forward.

Last but not least the 60 mins double sub, this is becoming a bit of a joke and also a concern to me, it is as if it doesnt matter how bad the team or an individual is playing he is going to wait till then to make the subs. The famous phrase there is no plan B just do plan A better, it looks like everything is stuck to this plan. Niko and Miller were both off the pace. I would have taken off Niko after 30 mins he is that short of match fitness. Miller should have been off at HT it just wasn't his day and tbh I havent been convinced with him during pre season. Hopefully Holt and Windass get a game tomorrow as we are needing some pace in the midfield.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

35 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

 the defence is now the scapegoat, can't remember Hamilton having too many other chances, Kiernon deflected the cross which meant Hill couldn't clear it properly, then Wallace was incredibly slow getting to the player giving him time to turn and compose himself, however he still had to produce a fantastic finish.

The problem on Sat was the fact we produced very little and MW waited far too long to change it. MOH deserved a start IMO, also I suspect young Harry has played himself into a starting role.   

I definately think there will be changes on Tuesday and the team for Dundee might depend on how that goes. WAghorn is definately out so at least one enforced change. Wilson also eligible. 

Be interesting to see if nico starts - which he may well do if MW wants to improve on his match fitness. 

[cushynumber 25,178]

Just now, Bluepeter9 said:

I definately think there will be changes on Tuesday and the team for Dundee might depend on how that goes. WAghorn is definately out so at least one enforced change. Wilson also eligible. 

Be interesting to see if nico starts - which he may well do if MW wants to improve on his match fitness. 

I think Nico should get back on the training field again for a few weeks before he is considered for a start.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Just now, cushynumber said:

I think Nico should get back on the training field again for a few weeks before he is considered for a start.

As I said manager might feel games are best to bring out the best in him. He has a touch of quality but had a poor game against Hamilton but one game doesn't make him bad - another 60 min might be more beneficial to us in the long run. 

[cushynumber 25,178]

Just now, Bluepeter9 said:

As I said manager might feel games are best to bring out the best in him. He has a touch of quality but had a poor game against Hamilton but one game doesn't make him bad - another 60 min might be more beneficial to us in the long run. 

I would like to see Rossitter start in his place and see what energy he brings to the table. I dont really think Niko deserves a starting berth at the moment. get him hammered on the training ground and then on for the last 30 mins. When he starts to make an impact in those games then consider him for a start.

[sammy cox 664]

2 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

I would like to see Rossitter start in his place and see what energy he brings to the table. I dont really think Niko deserves a starting berth at the moment. get him hammered on the training ground and then on for the last 30 mins. When he starts to make an impact in those games then consider him for a start.

Totally.We can't afford to be carrying any passengers.I have no doubts over his ability but his fitness is poor and as you have pointed out until he is fully fit or a good bit fitter we have options unlike last season.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

5 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

I would like to see Rossitter start in his place and see what energy he brings to the table. I dont really think Niko deserves a starting berth at the moment. get him hammered on the training ground and then on for the last 30 mins. When he starts to make an impact in those games then consider him for a start.

I would quite like to see Rossiter over a whole game - but we ain't dropping Barton so that would mean Joey playing further forward ( no bad thing) - it's great to have decent options tho' and good to be playing Peterhead so even if we have 4 - 5 changes we should progress - Dundee team selection will be interesting.  

[Guest]

11 hours ago, BlueBloodStream said:

It appears that at times our Managers along with others (Wenger and the budget at Arsenal springs to mind) don't want to go with decisions that are obvious to the majority of fans

 

- We have been shit in defence since winning the Championship yet are still searching around for defenders months later 

- Ally playing players out of position

- Novo left out of Manchester final

 

But on the first point, if 99% of fans agree our defence has been woeful, then why doesn't our Management team? Surely MW can't be blinded....he watches the same games as we do.

 

Really great to see the style we have adapted after Ally and clipboard but I can't believe our management are missing the obvious fixes required

Football is a strange game and people read games differently, someone posted yesterday that they thought Barton was rotten and Tav was great on Saturday just as I was about to post the complete opposite of that so everyone sees games in a different way

[KeyserSoze 14,579]

28 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

As I said manager might feel games are best to bring out the best in him. He has a touch of quality but had a poor game against Hamilton but one game doesn't make him bad - another 60 min might be more beneficial to us in the long run. 

I'm not sure if we can afford to play players who are not fit. No passengers please. 

 We know he is quality and something double shifts on the training ground would help with. 

 

[scottyscott1963 18,408]

Just wait till the female accies physio makes a decision to invade the park without the managers say so and it will end in court and if the Chelsea physios case was anything to go by (heard a the last count it was £1,250,000) then accies will be out the game. Is that where our game is going because of dolly burds. 

[Juniorsparkie 491]

I've been at a game Kenny Black and John Colquhoun sitting talking about what was going on taking notes etc.and from the ex-pro's perspective it was so different from the fans point of view.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

54 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

I'm not sure if we can afford to play players who are not fit. No passengers please. 

 We know he is quality and something double shifts on the training ground would help with. 

 

... I agree with no passengers but one bad game does not make a player a passenger - and sometimes the only way to get match fit is to play matches - even with Nico being below par I thought the team was capable of winning but Barry McKay, Kenny Miler, WAghorn and Tavernier were also below what we expect from them so game was tougher than it might have been ( and some credit to Hamilton who's game plan got them a point) 

[coopsleftboot 5,512]

2 hours ago, Big Al II said:

 the defence is now the scapegoat, can't remember Hamilton having too many other chances, Kiernon deflected the cross which meant Hill couldn't clear it properly, then Wallace was incredibly slow getting to the player giving him time to turn and compose himself, however he still had to produce a fantastic finish.

The problem on Sat was the fact we produced very little and MW waited far too long to change it. MOH deserved a start IMO, also I suspect young Harry has played himself into a starting role.   

I was going to say that's how I saw it, but that's exactly what happened...with the exception that it was Kranjcar who was slow and sold himself.  Was a fantastic finish though, and apart from that, defensively we were mostly sound.

Second point is, all I can think is that at half-time, he looks for a reaction and lets certain players know he want's a 15 minute burst as they'll be coming off.  Didn't work and I'd like to see MOH and Harry start ahead of the pair they replaced.

Hamilton played a tactic we've not seen much of against us...they pressed us higher up the pitch to try and force us to play longer passes...worked to a degree for them, especially in the first half, seemed to confuse many of our players.

[K.A.I 36,183]

I think they do see what the fans do but they like to show faith in their players and their system. I think that if a manager sometimes rings the changes too early in a game it's like admitting he got it wrong. Dunno, though. Just a guess.

Wee Advocaat wasn't afraid to bring someone off and/or make a change after half an hour if it wasn't working. I like that. But he also brought in one or two too many Dutchmen and was stubborn with playing them even when they weren't performing i.e Ricksen and Konterman and De Boer always played no matter how quiet or in-effective spell of form he was having. So even he wasn't perfect.

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 hour ago, Bluepeter9 said:

I would quite like to see Rossiter over a whole game - but we ain't dropping Barton so that would mean Joey playing further forward ( no bad thing) - it's great to have decent options tho' and good to be playing Peterhead so even if we have 4 - 5 changes we should progress - Dundee team selection will be interesting.  

I agree with this too. Fucking hell that's a couple of posts in two days now feel dirty as fuck. Don't even feel this dirty after a day of power-wanking.

I think too that the Dundee team selection will be interesting as it's a decent test for us and will be interesting to see if a couple start that maybe shouldn't and/or what sort of changes he makes and at what times if it isn't working. Dundee is a bigger game than some people might think IMO.

[graeme_4 34,615]

1 hour ago, cushynumber said:

I think Nico should get back on the training field again for a few weeks before he is considered for a start.

You only get match fit playing matches, sadly we've to many who didn't get the preseason games required really.

League cup groups were enjoyable, but not exactly ideal in terms of prep. 

[bluenose244 2,618]

Do people honestly think Warburton and Weir are not aware of the weakness in our defence? 

I have no doubt we have been working round the clock from last season and through the summer, we will have a shortlist of players we are scouting and it'll just be a case of waiting for the right time to make the deals happen. 

It's not football manager in the real world, you don't just right click and buy then they magically appear in your squad. These things take time. 

What I think is more urgent however is sorting out the slack passes and lack of tempo that seems to have cropped up over night. Get back to out playing and out scoring teams and the defensive problems will be less of a worry. 

[Leeds_Bear 8,110]

5 hours ago, Zulu said:

What i find strange is the team that overran the mhanks doesnt seem to be playing at that tempo anymore and bringing in Hill an Kranjar the tempo has gone down these two cant play that type of game one is too slow an the other needs too much time on the ball we need fit guys with pace and ability

This is my biggest thing, the tempo has dropped off the radar in comparison to last season. I think having both Barton and Krancjar in the middle slows the whole game down - there is no way we're moving the ball as quickly when we're in the final third. 

[K.A.I 36,183]

3 minutes ago, bluenose244 said:

Do people honestly think Warburton and Weir are not aware of the weakness in our defence?

I have no doubt we have been working round the clock from last season and through the summer, we will have a shortlist of players we are scouting and it'll just be a case of waiting for the right time to make the deals happen. 

It's not football manager in the real world, you don't just right click and buy then they magically appear in your squad. These things take time. 

What I think is more urgent however is sorting out the slack passes and lack of tempo that seems to have cropped up over night. Get back to out playing and out scoring teams and the defensive problems will be less of a worry. 

I think they are aware of it - but I don't think they see it as a priority. Been saying it for ages now.

I still think the plan is to just always score one more which won't always work with 3 inter-changable forwards who seem to be everywhere apart from in good positions in and around the box to just put their foot through it and burst the net. It's frustrating as fuck.