Celtic and the tax dodge firm...

[Ibroxholm 2,280]

24 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

the tims are sleekit bastards, there isnt a snowballs chance in hell that dermot desmond doesnt know every single nick and trick in the book that manages to shift the blame 5 yards to the left of the papes

however, what this has done today, is given us a massive shit coated stick to beat they bastards with, even worse that players who they might not have been able to afford had they not been advised about LLP's, STILL couldnt beat an Alex McLeish financially stricken rangers team to the title more often than not

 

Agree totally with your second point.  Details of that mob's involvement in this scam should be something that any budding Rangers fans spokesperson should be learning in full and locking in their memory banks.

In the event that the BTC appeal goes against us, this is ammunition to throw back at Hagg the Horrible and all her cohorts when they start pontificating about us on TV.  

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

2 hours ago, Inigo said:

Is there any actual culpability in advising someone in relation to tax dodges, though? Does the culpability not lie with whoever actually does the dodging? (putting aside the morality and just dealing with the legalities of it)

 

In legal terms, especially considering how they tried out EBTs and swiftly stopped them, just at the point they were talking to a high ranking government official about being their chairman, I strongly suspect that the whole point of the movie and other such schemes was that the legal responsibility would lie with their employees, rather than the club. Whether there is any residual legal responsibility, I don't know, but I'd suspect that the punishment, if any, would be greatly reduced by comparison.

However, in a sporting context, it would breach the precedent of sporting integrity as the club would be actively and very consciously trying to gain access to better players they'd otherwise be unable to sign, with money otherwise unavailable to them. The point of the different types of schemes is, of course, to disguise income as some form of investment/loan/benefit, thus avoiding the appropriate amount of tax and thereby increasing take home income. So in a sporting context, given precedents, it's exactly the sort of thing they were all calling "cheating" in 2012.

Furthermore, to do that while knowing that EBTs were being outlawed and perhaps more, introduces another level of calculated cynicism, hypocrisy and immorality. However, proving that is another issue, but the evidence of suddenly stopping EBTs just after starting contact with a future chairman and lifelong supporter with influence in the government, is very suspicious.

Nonetheless, the role of Lawwell and certain others including a lawyer who worked for and supported them (who also allegedly, in the meetings, was ranting about us being "bastards [who] cheated [them] for years") in carving up the Five Way Agreement, where you had attempts, accepted by the SPL and SFA, to strip titles, then it all looks as corrupt, cynical and immoral as you could possibly get. It really does prove that the game up here is utterly corrupt at the top level with cronyism and cheating clearly involving Lawwell and his buddy from the Coors days fully responsible for the whole thing. Add in the fact of the rush to judgement prior to the Tax Tribunals, then you have another element of added emphasis.

It all adds up to a picture of them carving up the game with inside information to punish others on a moral pretext which they were consciously and actively breaching themselves. It's like the kids getting the keys to the sweetie shop and gleefully running amok to take full advantage, stealing all the produce, while phoning the police to blame the whole thing on their enemies and then successfully claiming the insurance under false and fraudulent terms.

In short, our so-called rivals and the powers that be in Scottish football have conspired to cheat us, giving all the baubles to our "rivals" and even trying to steal our historic ones.

They really are shameless cunts.

 

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

9 hours ago, Banner said:

 

 

This exactly, however it will never be proved unless and ex employee gives evidence. 

Ask alan brazil - he'll know.

[folkestoneger 8,154]

Despite the laugh I am having at their expense I still do not agree with the idea that HMRC can declare any tax scheme illegal years after the fact then ask not only for back payment but Interest on money you did not even owe at the time. 

They should have a time period to assess any new scheme.

[Inigo 32,534]

10 minutes ago, OlegKuznetsov said:

In legal terms, especially considering how they tried out EBTs and swiftly stopped them, just at the point they were talking to a high ranking government official about being their chairman, I strongly suspect that the whole point of the movie and other such schemes was that the legal responsibility would lie with their employees, rather than the club. Whether there is any residual legal responsibility, I don't know, but I'd suspect that the punishment, if any, would be greatly reduced by comparison.

However......

I agree with all of your post, Oleg. 

The sad likelihood is, though, that they'll get some intense ribbing from our fans and little else. It gives us another 'shut the fuck up' tool whenever they start their shite. But it will only be our fans that give them shit, because the wee clubs supporters hate us so much now that they'll likely ignore sellic's obviously contemptible behaviour to focus on us. 

The tims are every bit and more as morally corrupt as us. Clearly they are from all of that evidence, but ultimately we mired in a trough that they probably never will. And you could say the same for Hearts by the way. But only we will see that truth.

It's a filthy situation. Totally stinking.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

46 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

the tims are sleekit bastards, there isnt a snowballs chance in hell that dermot desmond doesnt know every single nick and trick in the book that manages to shift the blame 5 yards to the left of the papes

however, what this has done today, is given us a massive shit coated stick to beat they bastards with, even worse that players who they might not have been able to afford had they not been advised about LLP's, STILL couldnt beat an Alex McLeish financially stricken rangers team to the title more often than not

 

Someone tweeted "If you're gonna dodge tax at least do it right and win the title while doing it"

[cr3_bear 14,890]

Any bears who are looking at moving this forward to get something out of it through avenues ,  the point that should be hammered upon is how Craig Bellamy ended up on the scheme a mere few days after signing for Celtic , a scheme which the manager and chief executive were involved in . If that does not suggest some form of club involvement then I don't know what does 

[deco19761 1,006]

13 hours ago, centenarystand said:

"Supremo Peter Lawwell and other club figures have been linked to a £434million tax dodge.

A Record investigation reveals the Hoops chief executive, along with several former players and managers, invested in a number of controversial film partnerships set up by London firm Ingenious.

HM Revenue and Customs have branded the Limited Liability Partnership (LLP) schemes as sophisticated tax avoidance."

Guilty of financial doping and title stripping must now be an option. 

See how they fucken like it.

The thing is when they ROI players were at septic , Desmond was paying their hotel bills in the best suits in the marriot  hotel for 6 months and paying their wages direct. Now if he is avoiding tax , meaning he has more income than he wpuld have thus allowing him to pay substantial wages approx 60k per week plus hotel bills then it can be traced back to that cunt Desmond

 Therefore,there I a trace of financial doping inside Celtic football club.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

1 hour ago, Inigo said:

I agree with all of your post, Oleg. 

The sad likelihood is, though, that they'll get some intense ribbing from our fans and little else. It gives us another 'shut the fuck up' tool whenever they start their shite. But it will only be our fans that give them shit, because the wee clubs supporters hate us so much now that they'll likely ignore sellic's obviously contemptible behaviour to focus on us. 

The tims are every bit and more as morally corrupt as us. Clearly they are from all of that evidence, but ultimately we mired in a trough that they probably never will. And you could say the same for Hearts by the way. But only we will see that truth.

It's a filthy situation. Totally stinking.

True, but on some level they'll be jealous. Despite their paranoid delusions to the contrary, they could only really dream of being so cheated and persecuted.

If we get the title soon, it'll be such an overcoming of injustice that they'll probably be forced to top themselves, given their obsessive hatred.

[Capital Blu 615]

I couldn't give a toss about who the "names" are.

My biggest gripe about this whole sordid tax avoidance scandal, is that the people involved all earn lots of money, but try to pay as little tax as possible.  It's not a scheme that's available to punters earning average wages.

It's not rocket science, They have all been persuaded that the schemes (Film and EBT) were legal by the operators of the schemes. They either invested their own earnings (in order to reclaim tax), or did not have tax deducted from earnings.

Sure, you might argue that the individuals did nothing illegal, but IMO they are all morally corrupt.  That goes equally for footballers, TV celebrities, politicians, bankers etc. who have all participated in the schemes.

There will be no comeback on Celtic as they did not operate the scheme, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets caught up in such schemes, even retrospectively.  They have gone into them with their eyes open with the sole purpose of paying as little tax as possible.  The fact that these loopholes in tax law exist it down to devious tax "experts" who think they can bypass both the letter the spirit of the law.

Rant over!

[plumbGER 24,518]

8 minutes ago, Capital Blu said:

I couldn't give a toss about who the "names" are.

My biggest gripe about this whole sordid tax avoidance scandal, is that the people involved all earn lots of money, but try to pay as little tax as possible.  It's not a scheme that's available to punters earning average wages.

It's not rocket science, They have all been persuaded that the schemes (Film and EBT) were legal by the operators of the schemes. They either invested their own earnings (in order to reclaim tax), or did not have tax deducted from earnings.

Sure, you might argue that the individuals did nothing illegal, but IMO they are all morally corrupt.  That goes equally for footballers, TV celebrities, politicians, bankers etc. who have all participated in the schemes.

There will be no comeback on Celtic as they did not operate the scheme, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets caught up in such schemes, even retrospectively.  They have gone into them with their eyes open with the sole purpose of paying as little tax as possible.  The fact that these loopholes in tax law exist it down to devious tax "experts" who think they can bypass both the letter the spirit of the law.

Rant over!

[cr3_bear 14,890]

11 minutes ago, Capital Blu said:

I couldn't give a toss about who the "names" are.

My biggest gripe about this whole sordid tax avoidance scandal, is that the people involved all earn lots of money, but try to pay as little tax as possible.  It's not a scheme that's available to punters earning average wages.

It's not rocket science, They have all been persuaded that the schemes (Film and EBT) were legal by the operators of the schemes. They either invested their own earnings (in order to reclaim tax), or did not have tax deducted from earnings.

Sure, you might argue that the individuals did nothing illegal, but IMO they are all morally corrupt.  That goes equally for footballers, TV celebrities, politicians, bankers etc. who have all participated in the schemes.

There will be no comeback on Celtic as they did not operate the scheme, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets caught up in such schemes, even retrospectively.  They have gone into them with their eyes open with the sole purpose of paying as little tax as possible.  The fact that these loopholes in tax law exist it down to devious tax "experts" who think they can bypass both the letter the spirit of the law.

Rant over!

#striptherunnersup 

[Bad Robot 21,213]

9 hours ago, OlegKuznetsov said:

The individuals involved will be pursued.

The club might get drawn into that, considering what appears to be a clear link to numerous employees, and perhaps crucially, the top level management. That could see the club possibly getting drawn into proceedings given their clear apparent role.

Nonetheless, the hypocrisy is complete and obvious.

However, there is one thing that I've not noticed anyone else remark on thus far.

Crucially, this exposes that hypocrisy and that is immensely significant, given Lawwell and his buddies' involvement in drawing up carving up the five way agreement that sought to strip titles before there had even been a judgement in our EBT case. Furthermore, the complicity of the SFA and SPL with their role in that agreement reveals a level of corruption in those governing bodies.

To be clear, this completely confirms the hypocrisy and corruption in our game and how our so-called rivals have effectively cheated us. Lawwell and Regan must go and there should be a full and thorough investigation into the events of 2012 relating to our mistreatment. Given the level of corruption at the very top of our game, we need completely independent and external investigators if we are to be able to trust their judgement.

 

 

 

Our club should be given a 'victim status' similar to what FIFA wanted when all the corruption came out.

[bluenose1975 1,287]

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Took the record 4 years to catch up.

 

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?/topic/221623-celtic-tax-case-update/#comment-1060087667

 

[Ibroxholm 2,280]

16 minutes ago, Capital Blu said:

I couldn't give a toss about who the "names" are.

My biggest gripe about this whole sordid tax avoidance scandal, is that the people involved all earn lots of money, but try to pay as little tax as possible.  It's not a scheme that's available to punters earning average wages.

It's not rocket science, They have all been persuaded that the schemes (Film and EBT) were legal by the operators of the schemes. They either invested their own earnings (in order to reclaim tax), or did not have tax deducted from earnings.

Sure, you might argue that the individuals did nothing illegal, but IMO they are all morally corrupt.  That goes equally for footballers, TV celebrities, politicians, bankers etc. who have all participated in the schemes.

There will be no comeback on Celtic as they did not operate the scheme, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets caught up in such schemes, even retrospectively.  They have gone into them with their eyes open with the sole purpose of paying as little tax as possible.  The fact that these loopholes in tax law exist it down to devious tax "experts" who think they can bypass both the letter the spirit of the law.

Rant over!

Devious tax "experts" loopholes that, it is pretty clear from the timelines, were promoted by that club - not just for the players benefit but also their own.  

Your 'no comeback' statement may yet get tested in court if individuals feel they have been mis-sold on taking up these loopholes.

[B1872 20,762]

Was it discussed on Sportsound or the Clyde football phone in? 

[B1872 20,762]

[Getstiffed 8,863]

1 hour ago, Capital Blu said:

I couldn't give a toss about who the "names" are.

My biggest gripe about this whole sordid tax avoidance scandal, is that the people involved all earn lots of money, but try to pay as little tax as possible.  It's not a scheme that's available to punters earning average wages.

It's not rocket science, They have all been persuaded that the schemes (Film and EBT) were legal by the operators of the schemes. They either invested their own earnings (in order to reclaim tax), or did not have tax deducted from earnings.

Sure, you might argue that the individuals did nothing illegal, but IMO they are all morally corrupt.  That goes equally for footballers, TV celebrities, politicians, bankers etc. who have all participated in the schemes.

There will be no comeback on Celtic as they did not operate the scheme, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets caught up in such schemes, even retrospectively.  They have gone into them with their eyes open with the sole purpose of paying as little tax as possible.  The fact that these loopholes in tax law exist it down to devious tax "experts" who think they can bypass both the letter the spirit of the law.

Rant over!

Hate to break it to you but the film company tax dodge was illegal at the time it was operated.

Its a criminal matter unlike ebts.

Shame eh.

[Rangersfansmediawatch 1,055]

3 hours ago, OlegKuznetsov said:

In legal terms, especially considering how they tried out EBTs and swiftly stopped them, just at the point they were talking to a high ranking government official about being their chairman, I strongly suspect that the whole point of the movie and other such schemes was that the legal responsibility would lie with their employees, rather than the club. Whether there is any residual legal responsibility, I don't know, but I'd suspect that the punishment, if any, would be greatly reduced by comparison.

However, in a sporting context, it would breach the precedent of sporting integrity as the club would be actively and very consciously trying to gain access to better players they'd otherwise be unable to sign, with money otherwise unavailable to them. The point of the different types of schemes is, of course, to disguise income as some form of investment/loan/benefit, thus avoiding the appropriate amount of tax and thereby increasing take home income. So in a sporting context, given precedents, it's exactly the sort of thing they were all calling "cheating" in 2012.

Furthermore, to do that while knowing that EBTs were being outlawed and perhaps more, introduces another level of calculated cynicism, hypocrisy and immorality. However, proving that is another issue, but the evidence of suddenly stopping EBTs just after starting contact with a future chairman and lifelong supporter with influence in the government, is very suspicious.

Nonetheless, the role of Lawwell and certain others including a lawyer who worked for and supported them (who also allegedly, in the meetings, was ranting about us being "bastards [who] cheated [them] for years") in carving up the Five Way Agreement, where you had attempts, accepted by the SPL and SFA, to strip titles, then it all looks as corrupt, cynical and immoral as you could possibly get. It really does prove that the game up here is utterly corrupt at the top level with cronyism and cheating clearly involving Lawwell and his buddy from the Coors days fully responsible for the whole thing. Add in the fact of the rush to judgement prior to the Tax Tribunals, then you have another element of added emphasis.

It all adds up to a picture of them carving up the game with inside information to punish others on a moral pretext which they were consciously and actively breaching themselves. It's like the kids getting the keys to the sweetie shop and gleefully running amok to take full advantage, stealing all the produce, while phoning the police to blame the whole thing on their enemies and then successfully claiming the insurance under false and fraudulent terms.

In short, our so-called rivals and the powers that be in Scottish football have conspired to cheat us, giving all the baubles to our "rivals" and even trying to steal our historic ones.

They really are shameless cunts.

 

Great post mate and nail on the head here.

[ger4life_1872 29,575]

32 minutes ago, B1872 said:

Was it discussed on Sportsound or the Clyde football phone in? 

Not 1 word uttered about it on clyde

[Gooseman 889]

5 minutes ago, ger4life_1872 said:

Not 1 word uttered about it on clyde

I noticed that as well,  they had the perfect chance to get it debated on air but they shat it..... 

[A.T.G 10,773]

I hope to fuck Bobo Balde is in on it, surely he hates the cunts and will blab

[Siam69 26,975]

[GWR1979 1,964]

8 hours ago, Gaz52 said:

What we need is a whip-round to put an article in a Swiss Newspaper

Someone desperately sad enough like Phil 3 names to dedicate every second of his miserable life to this

Someone on the inside at HMRC to leak information on to a blog.

Oh we'll need a blog as well

We'll need ex-Managers, players etc on national TV, in the national press, greeting about "financial doping" and the sporting advantage gained out of not paying enough tax

 

 

Can we hook this up?

If we do the advert can we do it in Irish Gaelic just so we don't miss anyone out.