Is Tav Underrated

[Young Bob 1,360]

3 minutes ago, DBBTB said:

I didn't say I like full backs who can't defend but if I had to choose I'd rather have attacking fullbacks who are a threat going forward and like I said that's down to my own personal preference and the type of football I enjoy watching.

Whittaker and Broadfoot both held down the same position in relatively recent title winning teams for us and I don't think either of them were any better than Tavernier is. People will revise history to try and make their argument more credible and say they were but they got nothing but dogs abuse for the entirety of their careers here even though both of them had pretty successful careers with us while holding down a regular position in the team.

We've been spoilt with some absolutely fantatsic players over the years but I think some people forget or maybe just choose to ignore that there has been some utter shit that's pulled our jersey on and managed to hold down a regular place in the side over the years too.

The utter shit you speak of won titles and featured in European finals. James will not achieve such success.

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

19 minutes ago, Young Bob said:

Tiger Shaw could have maintained our rear guard on his own. In fact James would have not been given a contract if he was playing at that time

Is that a fact.

[miracle 7,834]

My favourite player last season when he was playing with real confidence. Hasn't hit the heights this year, whether that's down to him, coaching, or the lack of a decent centre half pairing or a covering midfielder or a combination of all of these i would give him another season.

[ElBufalo20 7,936]

44 minutes ago, WATP-FOREVER said:

Not saying you're a bad guy or anything, but I'd rather read what Mourinho says on the stats issue.

Ok then apparently Tavernier stats are really good then according to the OP so you think Mourinho will want to sign him then?

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

5 minutes ago, Sasa'onlyPLGsuccess'Papac said:

Ok then apparently Tavernier stats are really good then according to the OP so you think Mourinho will want to sign him then?

No, not all. I've already said his (Mourinho's) match reporter would report he's useless at defending.

I've only commented on that stats are used combined with the match reports.

[ElBufalo20 7,936]

Just now, WATP-FOREVER said:

No, not all. I've already said his (Mourinho's) match reporter would report he's useless at defending. 

Exactly then the stats are irrelevant! 

[Young Bob 1,360]

2 minutes ago, WATP-FOREVER said:

Is that a fact.

Yes.

I guess you never had the pleasure of actually being in Jocks company.

Last few times i met him he was an old man but still made his way on his own to watch the morning parade at the corner of Sunnyside  and Dunbeth Road in July.

He had to work alongside my father during the war and play at the weekends to help keep the spirits of the country up.

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

4 minutes ago, Sasa'onlyPLGsuccess'Papac said:

Exactly then the stats are irrelevant! 

Give over man.

They are used combined with the match report.

[ElBufalo20 7,936]

Just now, WATP-FOREVER said:

Give over man.

They are used combined with the match report.

We can disagree. And I like Tavernier actually. But you can't say the stats matter and then admit yourself that he's not a great defender.

The stats might say he's decent but you've probably seen yourself he's cost us a few goals too many.

Scott Brown had some of the best midfield stats for a midfielder in the Champions League did he not?  Does that mean the tarriers won a game? Does it mean he could influence a game? He must be one of the best midfielders in Europe then cos the stats suggest so?

We all know he's not so once again proving stats are irrelevant 

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

6 minutes ago, Sasa'onlyPLGsuccess'Papac said:

We can disagree. And I like Tavernier actually. But you can't say the stats matter and then admit yourself that he's not a great defender.

The stats might say he's decent but you've probably seen yourself he's cost us a few goals too many.

Scott Brown had some of the best midfield stats for a midfielder in the Champions League did he not?  Does that mean the tarriers won a game? Does it mean he could influence a game? He must be one of the best midfielders in Europe then cos the stats suggest so?

We all know he's not so once again proving stats are irrelevant 

Combined with the match report, stats can be useful. On their own, not truthful. 

[DavieAyrshire 244]

30 minutes ago, miracle said:

My favourite player last season when he was playing with real confidence. Hasn't hit the heights this year, whether that's down to him, coaching, or the lack of a decent centre half pairing or a covering midfielder or a combination of all of these i would give him another season.

Already said in this thread ppl got carried away with him last season it was the championship remember

[bluenose48 952]

Terrible defensively, but has moments when he looks the part. As others have said if we keep him would be far better in midfield.

[Bakbear 3,586]

Tav is nowhere near as bad as some say and nowhere near as good as others say..... Like many of our players he has ability, like many of our players he has flaws. MW had clear strategy of taking a chance on misfits and hoping that their abilities could be developed to overcome their flaws. He was trading. Trying to buy low and sell high. Unfortunately it completely failed because, like with others before him, he misjudged the Scottish game.

Tav has the ability to hit a great cross, he has the ability to belt a worldie free kick and he has pace and attacking ability. He is lacking in the will to win, the work ethic to get back after being caught upfield, and the consistency needed at our level. He may never have those things he lacks and if he did he probably would never have ended up in Scotland 

Remember that many of the misfits that MW brought in had been on the books of progressive and wealthy clubs who felt they could let these guys go, there is a reason for that.

Oh and lastly, folk saying that one player in a team can influence us being 35 points behind or that just because an average player like Tav is in the side we will never get to the finals of major tournaments are reaching. Quite aside from the fact that a Scottish club getting to the final of a major European tournament is unlikely to happen again in our lifetime, Put Messi at right back in a shite team and he will do fuck all, likewise put Tav in at right back for Real Madrid and they would still challenge. Tav is no worse than Kirk Broadfoot. 

Lets see how he goes under the new manager as others have said there are far more pressing issues to address

 

[BridgeIsBlue 66,639]

No and no.

All very good having fullbacks who can get forward but we need them to do their first job and defend well.

Tavernier and Wallace are piss poor defenders.

[Wullies_bowly_legs 3,860]

Would like to see him given a chance with a class CB playing alongside him. Someone that will shout, bully him and keep him in the right place when defending. If he was still mince then punt him.

[Aubie92 1,074]

My main issue with Tav is that he, more often than not, chases the ball rather than return to his position after running down the flank, which usually means he's running into the midfield and leaving his centre back exposed. I wouldn't have him in at right back, but I wouldn't be binning him either. I thought the way Murty used him in the last Old Firm game not only played to his strengths, but it turned one of Tav's biggest flaws - the aforementioned chasing the baw - into a strength. 

[BlueCafu1872 479]

6 minutes ago, Aubie92 said:

My main issue with Tav is that he, more often than not, chases the ball rather than return to his position after running down the flank, which usually means he's running into the midfield and leaving his centre back exposed. I wouldn't have him in at right back, but I wouldn't be binning him either. I thought the way Murty used him in the last Old Firm game not only played to his strengths, but it turned one of Tav's biggest flaws - the aforementioned chasing the baw - into a strength. 

This...me personally I think his confidence took a hit when he took abuse for not defending to the satisfaction of the supporters even thou he was beating records going forward from the  rb position...so hopefully pedro sees something and utilises him further up the pitch and use hodson in rb...same goes for beerman use him in lw since wallace will unlikley be dropped..

[Aubie92 1,074]

29 minutes ago, BlueCafu1872 said:

This...me personally I think his confidence took a hit when he took abuse for not defending to the satisfaction of the supporters even thou he was beating records going forward from the  rb position...so hopefully pedro sees something and utilises him further up the pitch and use hodson in rb...same goes for beerman use him in lw since wallace will unlikley be dropped..

I think there's even a positive in Tav's confidence taking a knock, in that he genuinely seems to care about playing for Rangers. I'm under no illusions that Tav and Waghorn ultimately want to play in as a high a level down South as possible, but both seem like they've been around enough to realise how big it is to play for Rangers in front of 45,000 - 50,000 at Ibrox. I do think there's signs Tav has tried to improve as a defender too, but it's at the detriment to his natural game. 

I'm old fashioned in that I want my defenders to defend first and foremost, and I don't think we can get away with two full backs simultaneously bombing down the wings, at least not without another body to drop into the centre of defence to cover them. (I thought Ball was used to good effect that way last season.) I'd play Hodson at right back, but I think that frees Tav up the basically do what he was doing last season to great effect - get down the right wing. It worked against Celtic as it meant Tav's tendency to drift into the centre of midfield worked in out favour, and when he was getting back into defensive positions he was adding an extra body to the back four. 

In fairness to Tav though, the issue was Warburton's tactical naivety. I understood his point about plan B just being tweaking plan A - the way we used Ball from last winter onwards, for example - but Warburton never seemed to really catch on that you can't have two full backs playing as wingers at times, especially with a midfield so focused on attack. When Tav and Wallace got forward there should have been an instruction for one to hang back a bit if the other was on the run, or for one of the midfielders to cover their run. It was just basic schoolboy stuff that Warburton seemed to ignore. 

The boy Beerman has shown signs that he's working on improving his tackling, and I think there's signs he could be challenging Wallace for that starting berth next season. He's a natural winger, but if he can continue to improve then we could have someone that can slot into either Wallace's or McKay's position. 

[The Godfather 72,437]

Is he fuck  

He can't defend worth a fuck and attacking wise he's been average at best since moving up a level.

Just because he strolled the championship doesn't make him a good footballer. If we weren't skint he'd be nowhere near our club.

[giffnockger 4,840]

Not under rated/or a fucking right back. Would try him further forward on Sunday til rest of season with Hodson in behind...

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

Tav will do just fine when he finds some ability and learns to play football.

[SuperPapac05 3,383]

No, Tav is just shit!!! 

[Blueshoff 11,919]

Depends on how much we can sell him for.

If Forest get relegated then maybe MW will come in for him - would probably kill it in Div 1

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

With 2 decent centre halves and a proper holding midfielder Tav would be a hugely influential player for us. He gets caught out a lot due to his attacking runs and there been no coverage from midfield and a centre half (Kiernan) who is hopeless.

It's no coincidence that he has been involved in our 3 goals against celtic this season.

[Aubie92 1,074]

7 minutes ago, eskbankloyal said:

With 2 decent centre halves and a proper holding midfielder Tav would be a hugely influential player for us. He gets caught out a lot due to his attacking runs and there been no coverage from midfield and a centre half (Kiernan) who is hopeless.

It's no coincidence that he has been involved in our 3 goals against celtic this season.

But he was involved in the last game as he wasn't played as a full back. And as much as Kiernan just isn't a central defender, he wasn't helped out by Tav straying from position so often. Wilson & Kiernan were left exposed by Warburton's tactics last year, and were expected to cover for their full backs. 

As much as a top class central defender could cover for Tav leaving him stranded, a better full back would track back to his position. I think we should be playing to his strengths, and I don't think those strengths are defensive.