Pedro Caixinha had a logical plan to halt Celtic but no-one to execute it

[DennyBlueNose 652]

5 minutes ago, The Dude said:

It's simple. If you have the ball you need to do something attacking with it within 10 seconds and move the ball closer to their goal. 

If they have the ball you need win it back within 10 seconds. 

I'm not sure mate, I think we may need to get an interpreter in. 

[DennyBlueNose 652]

5 minutes ago, HG5 said:

Or the manager for trying to get players to adopt tactics which they can't execute?

Who's sound minded now?

We could argue that point all night mate, at the end of the day we can only surmise. 

I personally think so far on the limited evidence we've seen think that PC is tactically astute, when we've played against lesser opposition they've mainly implemented his game plan and it's been successful. In my opinion the players shat it, they couldn't handle the pressure and they crumbled. 

[William McBeath 2,154]

2 hours ago, DennyBlueNose said:

So basically what some of the more sound minded have been saying, it's the players execution to blame not the manager's tactics 

That's if you think Pressley is a Guru. It's obviously both. That lot have better players than everyone else in the league but rarely beat anyone 5-1 away. Yet many teams have worse players than us. 

What part of Pedro's game plan did you of sound mind enjoy? Was it the three strikers and missing midfield again? 

Anybody will need money to get us competing with them but Pedro needs to learn quickly because right now he's doing worse than just about every manager in the league.

Most have less resources and worse squads but do better. If you take that and what actually happens on the pitch into account then you'll see that Pressley is basically writing a puff piece showing nothing more than he knows a system. 

I suppose it's just some kind of wish to protect the new manager that leads to people just overlooking his mistakes and blaming the players completely.

That is the main type of unsound judgement that is being made here. Otherwise why don't all the other teams with cheaper squads fall to bits against the filth and get picked apart?

The recent state of us is Pedro's fault. We have went backwards under him so far. If you watch us then I can't see how you don't see it. Unless it's just emotionalism trying to back the manager then I don't see how people can deny it.

Hopefully it improves and we also get some better players because we will never win titles with this lot no matter who is manager. They have performed much better for most of the season than we have seen recently though. So it's not only them to blame for the shit we have seen since Motherwell.

[Cam1872 251]

Whatever formation we played on Saturday we would have been beaten - it's that simple, because the players would have made mistakes, beacusr they are brutal.

You don't have to like it, or agree. It's what would have happened though. That's how bad we are, and it hurts.

We are expecting miracles from Pedro. 

4-5-1 players are shite

4-3-3 still shite

4 - 3 - 1 still shite

The players would have bottles it whatever formation we were playing. They are chronic and weak willed.

 

We deserve better results, but Pedro deserves more time.

 

[DennyBlueNose 652]

5 minutes ago, William McBeath said:

That's if you think Pressley is a Guru. It's obviously both. That lot have better players than everyone else in the league but rarely beat anyone 5-1 away. Yet many teams have worse players than us. 

What part of Pedro's game plan did you of sound mind enjoy. Was it the three strikers and missing midfield again? 

Anybody will need money to get us competing with them but Pedro needs to learn quickly because right now he's doing worse than just about every manager in the league.

Most have less resources and worse squads but do better. If you take that and what actually happens on the pitch into account then you'll see that Pressley is basically writing a puff piece showing nothing more than he knows a system. 

I suppose it's just some kind of wish to protect the new manager that leads to people just overlooking his mistakes and blaming the players completely.

That is the main type of unsound judgement that is being made here. Otherwise why don't all the other teams with cheaper squads fall to bits against the filth and get picked apart?

The recent state of us is Pedro's fault. We have went backwards under him so far. If you watch us then I can't see how you don't see it. Unless it's just emotionalism trying to back the manager then I don't see how people can deny it.

Hopefully it improves and we also get some better players because we will never win titles with this lot no matter who is manager. They are and have been much better for most of the season than we have seen recently. So it's not only them to blame. 

I didn't enjoy one bit of it to be honest and didn't say I did. 

However I do think that the system with better players would have worked. Maybe that was naive by PC to think his players were capable of carrying out his instructions but for me it all goes back to them not having the bottle. 

There was just no desire, they completely lacked any belief and the game was lost in their heads well before a ball was kicked. 

I don't think Caixinha is blameless, far from it, but as it stands I stand by him, he has to be given the chance to strengthen and ill reserve my judgement until then. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

That was actually a good read, but you have to ask if the players couldn't or aren't good enough to carry it out then why the play that system. 

[William McBeath 2,154]

2 hours ago, K.A.I said:

I find it incredible that for some folk the manager of Rangers isn't to blame one bit for getting beat 5-1 at home some of you don't live in the real world I'm sorry 

and yes the players are hopeless too before anyone misses the point 

Exactly. Last week we were dumb Scots now it's unsound mind for seeing that we are playing worse. The same with all the no other manager could do better when all the other ones in the league usually do never mind Jose or his ilk. Your last sentence is what's going on. Hopefully the manager does just need more time to suss our league out and then some better players. It needs to happen soon though as I can't watch this shit anymore. That was the most painful game I can remember. I'm starting to worry we will finish even lower in the league.

[HG5 11,155]

25 minutes ago, DennyBlueNose said:

We could argue that point all night mate, at the end of the day we can only surmise. 

I personally think so far on the limited evidence we've seen think that PC is tactically astute, when we've played against lesser opposition they've mainly implemented his game plan and it's been successful. In my opinion the players shat it, they couldn't handle the pressure and they crumbled. 

Indeed - we could be here this time next week, debating this one!

I think it's definitely the product of the levels we've been sourcing players from, that there was a collective failure - if these guys were stronger mentally, they'd have been playing at higher levels (& probably out of our reach!).

Having said that, they've generally reserved the really poor efforts for the road - unusual to see it just so bad at Ibrox.

[cushynumber 25,178]

Just now, Cam1872 said:

ICT beat us under Murty. 

Our only point- and away from home-against the taigs was via murty. We were organised, and for probably the only game against them this season- didn't look like conceding 5.

I'm not saying he is a hero, my point is he was learning what was required and what his team was capable of against  the taigs. Is Pedro doing that? On the evidence of the last two games the answer is no.

 

[cushynumber 25,178]

Just now, Courtyard Bear said:

That was actually a good read, but you have to ask if the players couldn't or aren't good enough to carry it out then why the play that system. 

Boom

[William McBeath 2,154]

15 minutes ago, DennyBlueNose said:

I didn't enjoy one bit of it to be honest and didn't say I did. 

However I do think that the system with better players would have worked. Maybe that was naive by PC to think his players were capable of carrying out his instructions but for me it all goes back to them not having the bottle. 

There was just no desire, they completely lacked any belief and the game was lost in their heads well before a ball was kicked. 

I don't think Caixinha is blameless, far from it, but as it stands I stand by him, he has to be given the chance to strengthen and ill reserve my judgement until then. 

I agree with most of that to be honest but we have definitely regressed. I'm just hoping it is time and players that will make a difference as we don't have a good enough team. I think they have played much better for most of the season but have been woeful up front. That's what's worrying me with regards Pedro but he he will need to be given time to work out what works up in Scotland. We can't give the guy the job and no time. Just hope things improve quickly because this has been aweful so far.

[writingranger 1,423]

2 hours ago, K.A.I said:

How did Murty manage it then?

how can 10/11 of the players that played yesterday have been part of Delia's failings yet give us that lesson yesterday?

i know the players are shite btw but people are ignoring the managers mistakes and only concentrating on that aspect 

if we got a result yesterday Pedro would have got all the credit and rightly so 

Celtic played a lot better than when Murty managed us.

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, writingranger said:

Celtic played a lot better than when Murty managed us.

Maybe that's because he set up a team to contain them 

[the_r_sole 366]

6 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

Our only point- and away from home-against the taigs was via murty. We were organised, and for probably the only game against them this season- didn't look like conceding 5.

I'm not saying he is a hero, my point is he was learning what was required and what his team was capable of against  the taigs. Is Pedro doing that? On the evidence of the last two games the answer is no.

 

In that one game we didn't make too many individual mistakes that cost us goals, for most of this season and last we have been shipping shite goals on the back of individual mistakes, not tactics or organisation but players concentrating and applying themselves.

I think you're reading far too much into one result from a short term manager, and not taking account of the other results in his tenure. Arguably our best result.of the season is 3-0 away to the sheep given how this squad have played in away games against the better teams in the league for the last two seasons...

[RedWhiteBlue1872 407]

No tactic cant stop a pish 18 year old diving in for a needless tackle, or Hyndman getting thrown off the ball like the poof he is, Tav all over place positionally as well.

After that we were always struggling.

Said it plenty now but the players are a disgrace, but the buck always stops with the manager.

However let the guy at least try to change it first before we slate him.

[DennyBlueNose 652]

1 minute ago, HG5 said:

Indeed - we could be here this time next week, debating this one!

I think it's definitely the product of the levels we've been sourcing players from, that there was a collective failure - if these guys were stronger mentally, they'd have been playing at higher levels (& probably out of our reach!).

Having said that, they've generally reserved the really poor efforts for the road - unusual to see it just so bad at Ibrox.

I always wondered if this stems from MW's view of getting the right 'personalities' and not upsetting the harmony of the dressing room, he spoke about it a lot when he first arrived. 

Consider Joey Barton coming in and the aggressive type of player he is look at how much of fuss it caused with some of the delicate personalities we had. For me it's more evidence of just how weak minded some (if not all) of our players are.

From what we're hearing it seems like PC is aware of that and wants to rectify it, not everyone will like it but it is what it is. 

[cushynumber 25,178]

Just now, the_r_sole said:

In that one game we didn't make too many individual mistakes that cost us goals, for most of this season and last we have been shipping shite goals on the back of individual mistakes, not tactics or organisation but players concentrating and applying themselves.

I think you're reading far too much into one result from a short term manager, and not taking account of the other results in his tenure. Arguably our best result.of the season is 3-0 away to the sheep given how this squad have played in away games against the better teams in the league for the last two seasons...

I'm not reading anything into anything, I'm asking the question " how hard can it be to put a rangers team out at ibrox with the aim of not getting hammered?"

And we got lucky against the sheep....

[the_r_sole 366]

3 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

I'm not reading anything into anything, I'm asking the question " how hard can it be to put a rangers team out at ibrox with the aim of not getting hammered?"

And we got lucky against the sheep....

When none of them know what it means to play for rangers and none of them even bother to match Celtic for effort and application, never mind skill and ability it's impossible. That wasn't a rangers team out there yesterday, it was a team of empty shirts

 

We got lucky against the sheep but murty masterminded a point against them?! Ffs

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 hour ago, DennyBlueNose said:

I'm not sure mate, I think we may need to get an interpreter in. 

He has a fantastic grasp of English imo which is a plus point 

[Cam1872 251]

21 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

Our only point- and away from home-against the taigs was via murty. We were organised, and for probably the only game against them this season- didn't look like conceding 5.

I'm not saying he is a hero, my point is he was learning what was required and what his team was capable of against  the taigs. Is Pedro doing that? On the evidence of the last two games the answer is no.

 

That is by far my biggest worry, the lack of looking at your opponent and not adapting.

Is he pig headed and just thinks he knows best and underestimated them?

Is he just plain shit and talks a good game?

Is he naive?

Do the players hate him already?

Is he trying to set up so the players will fail to force the boards hand in the summer?

Who knows? But none fill me with confidence, it's just hope that he turns it around.

I'm still onboard with his appointment, solely because of how bad the players are, and the Aberdeen result/Hamilton game.

[HG5 11,155]

6 minutes ago, DennyBlueNose said:

I always wondered if this stems from MW's view of getting the right 'personalities' and not upsetting the harmony of the dressing room, he spoke about it a lot when he first arrived. 

Consider Joey Barton coming in and the aggressive type of player he is look at how much of fuss it caused with some of the delicate personalities we had. For me it's more evidence of just how weak minded some (if not all) of our players are.

From what we're hearing it seems like PC is aware of that and wants to rectify it, not everyone will like it but it is what it is. 

I think MW's idea of the 'right personality' probably differs from ours!

You need a certain strength of character to play for Rangers (or the other lot).

Look no further than Broonaldo for an example of the triumph of style over substance - that guy exerts an influence way in excess of his (limited) talents as a footballer.

Horrible player, but we could do with a couple from that sort of mould.

[james_85 656]

It's not hard to work out how to play against them when we k ow we aren't good enough to compete. We should have been playing a 4-5-1. Keep it tight and don't give them any space. Garner showed enough when he came on and could hold the ball up. We can't play 3 in midfield against them your giving them the freedom of the pitch.

[five stars 1,634]

Pedro options were limited by our pool of players. Particularly the fact we don't have any decent holding midfielders. 

You can't legislate as a manager for a stupid needless tackle which puts you one down after 5 minutes.

But his tactics were poor and team selection was poor. We know we were going to have to go long, so why not play Garner, at least he'd win his fair share of headers and you can feed off the second ball. With Waghorn you knew the ball wouldn't stick and he'd win little in the air.

Our midfield was once again totally overrun and provided no protection for our defense. So why play 3 no9, who provide little support for the midfield. 

The worrying thing is he seems to have learned nothing from the week before.

[Ibroxholm 2,280]

After last week , I think we all knew we were always going to struggle yesterday, the best we could hope for was for the manager to shore things up and try to get some sort of respectable result.  Unfortunately, with Hodson injured, he couldn't do the logical thing of pushing Tav into the middle of the park to get some aggression into our midfield.  The manager's hands were tied in that front but I cannot believe he went with young Beerman again after last week.  The boy is clearly not ready for this sort of game at the present time and was always going to be a weak link. The obvious choice was to go with Halliday at left back for his experience alone.

I think Holt and Hyndman are also weak links in the midfield, quite honestly I wouldn't have either of them in our team but I guess again the manager was limited on alternatives.  I think I might have been tempted to play Bates and Wilson at CB and push Hill into a defensive role in centre midfield, similar to what we did with Ball last year.  Don't know if Hill would have mobility or stamina to play there although it's not a greatly demanding position. However desperate times call for desperate measures, we desperately need some aggression in the middle of the park.  

Other than the above not sure what else the manager could have done on the selection front.  

 

[five stars 1,634]

12 minutes ago, james_85 said:

It's not hard to work out how to play against them when we k ow we aren't good enough to compete. We should have been playing a 4-5-1. Keep it tight and don't give them any space. Garner showed enough when he came on and could hold the ball up. We can't play 3 in midfield against them your giving them the freedom of the pitch.

Agreed 4-5-1 when they had the ball converting to 4-3-3 when we attacked.

Let them fanny about with the ball in there own half but give then no space in ours. 

We may of still lost but at least we would of made it difficult for them.