We need to have a serious conversation about Tav

[ForeverAndEver 71,669]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Really? More often than not going into Old Firms there’s a substantial number of fans fearing the worst. can’t think of many games against them over the last decade where the support in general have been particularly confident we’re going to beat them. 

Surely then there’s more pressure then in games like Aberdeen, Livi etc where even a draw is a disaster.

But they’re still expected to win regardless, which is why when it doesn’t happen everyone’s fuming.

And last season he was pish in them for the most part as well, and in games with less pressure like CL groups.

1 minute ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Why in the fans eyes if it is everywhere else including bookies?

History, entitlement, delusion, blind faith? 

What is it that puts that pressure on players when fans expect more than they realistically should, and I'd imagine react negatively when it's not delivered?

I don’t know, probably all 4, but it’s what happens in football, same with Man United, Tottenham, Arsenal for years etc etc 

[MacBoyd 5,494]

5 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Fucking mental thread.

Cunts have had it in for Tav for years.

He is a better player when not under pressure, yet is probably the main driving force when we go behind in key games like last year with his multiple goals on the old firm under massive pressure.

I'm sure there's no pressure taking penalties too...

[graeme_4 34,671]

I’ve always liked Tav, backed him, and told folk we’ll miss him when he’s gone.

Sadly, he’s not the force he used to be. Doesn’t have the pace or the engine to get up and down the way Beale’s narrow approach needs. Had a howling first 6 months last season, and started this one in a similar vein. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,609]

7 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Fucking mental thread.

Cunts have had it in for Tav for years.

He is a better player when not under pressure, yet is probably the main driving force when we go behind in key games like last year with his multiple goals on the old firm under massive pressure.

The league was gone in that OF game at parkhead 

The meaningful OF game where we could have got back into the league race, he absolutely shat himself from doing maeda at ibrox pussied out of the tackle and sold the first goal, then played a part in the 2nd tarrier goal by allowing jota to dance by him on halfway line instead of crunching him and taking the booking

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

The league was gone in that OF game at parkhead 

The meaningful OF game where we could have got back into the league race, he absolutely shat himself from doing maeda at ibrox pussied out of the tackle and sold the first goal, then played a part in the 2nd tarrier goal by allowing jota to dance by him on halfway line instead of crunching him and taking the booking

Are there any other kind?

[The Dude 20,026]

6 hours ago, ForeverAndEver said:

But they’re still expected to win regardless, which is why when it doesn’t happen everyone’s fuming.

And last season he was pish in them for the most part as well, and in games with less pressure like CL groups.

I don’t know, probably all 4, but it’s what happens in football, same with Man United, Tottenham, Arsenal for years etc etc 

So there’s as much pressure v Livi as Celtic. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,609]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Are there any other kind?

Yes, absolute dead rubbers that are for bragging rights only, and even then, i certainly wouldnt brag about an OF win if that mob did the treble

Fact is the last two OF games had no bearing on the league, by time we went to parkhead for the 3-2 game they were on a run that wasnt going to stop them winning the league 

The ibrox new year one is a different matter, win thatand its 6pts with 2 OF games still to play, and tav played a massive part in us cunting it that ibrox game 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,609]

1 hour ago, graeme_4 said:

I’ve always liked Tav, backed him, and told folk we’ll miss him when he’s gone.

Sadly, he’s not the force he used to be. Doesn’t have the pace or the engine to get up and down the way Beale’s narrow approach needs. Had a howling first 6 months last season, and started this one in a similar vein. 

Howling 6 months, try full season he was howling

[The Dude 20,026]

4 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Yes, absolute dead rubbers that are for bragging rights only, and even then, i certainly wouldnt brag about an OF win if that mob did the treble

Fact is the last two OF games had no bearing on the league, by time we went to parkhead for the 3-2 game they were on a run that wasnt going to stop them winning the league 

The ibrox new year one is a different matter, win thatand its 6pts with 2 OF games still to play, and tav played a massive part in us cunting it that ibrox game 

Hypothetically, you wouldn’t care then if in these dead rubbers we took an absolute scudding or do we still go into these games demanding a performance from the players regardless of whether the titles done or not?

[graeme_4 34,671]

42 minutes ago, The Dude said:

So there’s as much pressure v Livi as celtic. 

We’ll that’s just not true is it. 

[KaiserJon 12,406]

9 hours ago, Smile said:

Had a very good end of season but by then the trophies had all be handed out to the filth. 

We seem to happy clap through seasons while they pick up trebles I blame the new age supporter.

Polite enquiry, what age are you? Just so I can relate to which Rangers sides you grew up watching etc.

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, graeme_4 said:

We’ll that’s just not true is it. 

Personally, I agree but it seems the goalposts are on wheels when it comes to Tav so folk can quickly shift them. 

Old Firm games are alway pressure games because we aren’t the underdogs and fans always expect us to beat them. 

Yet theres no pressure in games against other sides where, sometimes, even a win isn’t good enough? 

 

[theiconicman 2,992]

Tav has been an amazing signing for us over the course of his time here and I'd defend him in that - it's a team game and he has won us far more points than we've ever lost. He gets singled out because of the way he is asked to play (as a winger at times) but people never look at who should be covering him. The times where its an individual error (missed tackle, get beat on 1v1) doesn't outway his goals or attacking threat for me.

However, he is getting older and naturally the attacking part is the first to go. I'll support him this season but we need a replacement for him next year as a priority.

[OrangeRab 2,780]

8 hours ago, Loyal72 said:

You think it's bollocks that a RB should be able to defend first and foremost?

Perhaps Sterling isn't the answer. But absolutely your RB should be able to clear our lines first and offer an overlap for our wingers midfielders when necessary.

The problem is we have two ageing full backs but also ageing and very slow CDM in Jack/Lundstrum.

Tav can defend one on one. He’s not a world class defender but the main problem is he doesn’t have a world class engine anymore.

But given what he offers us offensively vs Sterling we should be able to adapt.

Man City have Rodri and Kovacic who drop in and cover when their full backs get caught high. It’s the same formula for almost all the front foot Prem teams now.

How many times do you see Jack sprinting back and killing a counter attack? Or dropping in and filling in for Tav. 

The first goal the other night was because Jack (maybe should have been Cifuentes) didn’t track and keep with the runner behind.

When we play Jack/Lundstrum we don’t ask them to do anything offensively. So there’s no excuse for them not to be tracking and filling the full back space. They just don’t seem to have the legs to do it 

 

[Smile 26,610]

8 hours ago, The Archer said:

Never a legend

I think for coming through the all the leagues and stopping the nine and three quarters or whatever it was to me gives him legendary status.

Fair enough if others disagree.

[graeme_4 34,671]

9 minutes ago, Smile said:

I think for coming through the all the leagues and stopping the nine and three quarters or whatever it was to me gives him legendary status.

Fair enough if others disagree.

I think legend is thrown about quite loosely these days, but he absolutely is one. 

[The Dude 20,026]

11 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

The problem is we have two ageing full backs but also ageing and very slow CDM in Jack/Lundstrum.

Tav can defend one on one. He’s not a world class defender but the main problem is he doesn’t have a world class engine anymore.

But given what he offers us offensively vs Sterling we should be able to adapt.

Man City have Rodri and Kovacic who drop in and cover when their full backs get caught high. It’s the same formula for almost all the front foot Prem teams now.

How many times do you see Jack sprinting back and killing a counter attack? Or dropping in and filling in for Tav. 

The first goal the other night was because Jack (maybe should have been Cifuentes) didn’t track and keep with the runner behind.

When we play Jack/Lundstrum we don’t ask them to do anything offensively. So there’s no excuse for them not to be tracking and filling the full back space. They just don’t seem to have the legs to do it 

 

Lundstram is 29. Kovacic is two months younger. 
 

[Smile 26,610]

19 minutes ago, theiconicman said:

Tav has been an amazing signing for us over the course of his time here and I'd defend him in that - it's a team game and he has won us far more points than we've ever lost. He gets singled out because of the way he is asked to play (as a winger at times) but people never look at who should be covering him. The times where its an individual error (missed tackle, get beat on 1v1) doesn't outway his goals or attacking threat for me.

However, he is getting older and naturally the attacking part is the first to go. I'll support him this season but we need a replacement for him next year as a priority.

Cifuentes was very poor the other night and that drew out Tav and in turn drew Goldson out wide that was always PSV plan.

I thought Goldson was fantastic and I was starting to worry his time was up with the niggling injuries players get as they get older.

[OrangeRab 2,780]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Lundstram is 29. Kovacic is two months younger. 
 

Yes what’s your point? We’re talking about engines. Kovacic can still run and his ground covered stats are impressive.

Lundstrum I think is a lot better than Jack. But still neither have the legs we need for that position. 

 

[graeme_4 34,671]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Lundstram is 29. Kovacic is two months younger. 
 

He is slow, same as Jack. Neither are what you’d call mobile regardless of age. 

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, OrangeRab said:

Yes what’s your point? We’re talking about engines. Kovacic can still run and his ground covered stats are impressive.

Lundstrum I think is a lot better than Jack. But still neither have the legs we need for that position. 

 

You said he’s ‘ageing’ then compared him with someone who’s an almost identical age. 

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, graeme_4 said:

He is slow, same as Jack. Neither are what you’d call mobile regardless of age. 

He’s slow as fuck. He was slow as fuck at 24 as well. To complain he’s ‘ageing’ at 29 is  a nonsense.

[graeme_4 34,671]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

He’s slow as fuck. He was slow as fuck at 24 as well. To complain he’s ‘ageing’ at 29 is  a nonsense.

He’s reducing in mobility.

Be it injury, age, not looking after himself as he should, our fitness regime - doesn’t really matter does it? The issue is he doesn’t have the legs to cover the fullbacks like the system needs.

I think everyone’s in agreement?

Edit: I’m talking about Jack btw.

[The Godfather 72,072]

Pace and athleticism used to cover for his defensive weaknesses seasons ago but obviously those have dwindled and it's a huge worry down that side.

Guys been heroic for us but we need a replacement and long term option. Tav isn't picking himself so I don't want him to tarnish his time with us being played constantly when it's clear he's not up to it.

Club should have addressed this 

[OrangeRab 2,780]

16 minutes ago, The Dude said:

He’s slow as fuck. He was slow as fuck at 24 as well. To complain he’s ‘ageing’ at 29 is  a nonsense.

I mean I was mostly referencing Jack who has really lost mobility. Lundstrum has never been quick and isn’t getting quicker. (Although he did have a spell where he looked more lively the season before last)

I think you understand the point. Don’t try and derail another thread