We need to have a serious conversation about Tav

[graeme_4 34,894]

1 hour ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Interesting that people have wanted an alternative to Tav for years. People constantly talking about his defensive frailties and whatnot and as soon as Beale signs somebody who gives us that differing option he’s getting criticised for it.

I’ve said more than once that I have my doubts about Beale, but he’s in a can’t win position with some supporters already.

Not really. If he’s successful, then everyone will love him.

And on the Sterling thing, it’s clear we need a set of fullbacks that can defend a bit better that we have recently - but you can’t then ask the ‘defensive’ fullback to fulfil the attacking role Tav does and provide all the width in the team. 

It’s the square pegs round hole stuff again. 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

There's a difference between performance and pressure though, if memory serves me right since gerrard arrived we havent lost an OF game once the league was effectively done

`There's always pressure in Old Firms. Regardless of stake. Whether the title is done, we're separated by a bawhair or we're miles in front. We always demand the players show up against them.

[nik2402 1,356]

We are approaching the time where a new full back takes over from Tavernier. Whether that’s sterling or not only time will tell. 

I think we need to move away from being a team that expects so much from him. Our strikers and midfielders should be taking over from him now and I suspect that will happen this year. We won’t be able to find a full back that provides what he does without spending a fortune. He’s been great and we will realise what he brought when he’s gone.

Ideally I’d love him to finish here and come in and play certain games. The way Ferguson done it with Giggs/Scholes towards the end.

Whether some think it or not he’s highly thought of within the changing room.
Regarding the PSV game I thought he was fine. Noa Lang was fairly quiet. Nearly scored a cracking goal start of second half. Nearly set up winner for Lammers/Danilo. 
 

[OrangeRab 2,889]

47 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Neither have ever been particularly mobile to begin with. 

I guess I must have dreamt us signing Raskin and Cifuentes, two mobile CDMs. 

Haha did I ever say they were mobile to begin with. I said they are less mobile than they used to be.
 

I never mentioned Raskin or Cifuentes. The way we are setting up in Europe still relies on us playing one of Jack and Lundstrum..

[ger4life_1872 29,755]

1 hour ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Interesting that people have wanted an alternative to Tav for years. People constantly talking about his defensive frailties and whatnot and as soon as Beale signs somebody who gives us that differing option he’s getting criticised for it.

I’ve said more than once that I have my doubts about Beale, but he’s in a can’t win position with some supporters already.

Usually the same who shout about getting the handbrake off 

[Smile 26,622]

1 minute ago, ger4life_1872 said:

Usually the same who shout about getting the handbrake off 

That was Beale was it not? The reason supporters mention it as it's what he sold himself on.

[The Dude 20,026]

56 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

The comparison was to mobile cdm to fit our system which we don’t have.

 

51 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

I guess I must have dreamt us signing Raskin and Cifuentes, two mobile CDMs. 

2 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

 

I never mentioned Raskin or Cifuentes. The way we are setting up in Europe still relies on us playing one of Jack and Lundstrum..

So we do have a mobile CDM that fits out system, you just decided to ignore them?

[bluenose244 2,620]

The Tavernier question has been kicked down the road for years, and his numbers helped delude everyone to the reality imo.

I have a lot of time for Tav, my Dad and Father in law have lambasted him since he got here, I have died on a Tavernier shaped hill many times defending him over the years, to the point where my wife warns me before family dinners "no Tav talk tonight!" 

But I stepped down from the hill last season tbh, and it's getting harder and harder to justify his place.

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,225]

5 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

Not really. If he’s successful, then everyone will love him.

And on the Sterling thing, it’s clear we need a set of fullbacks that can defend a bit better that we have recently - but you can’t then ask the ‘defensive’ fullback to fulfil the attacking role Tav does and provide all the width in the team. 

It’s the square pegs round hole stuff again. 

 

We will see, but based on what I read on here every day there’s people who can’t wait to criticise anything and everything that he does and those things are becoming more and more obscure now that we are on a bit of a run in terms of results.

See I don’t actually agree with your second point at all. Sterling said he prefers to defend first and foremost but he is still a relatively young player, and he has all the raw tools that people want in a full back on the modern game. He’s also played as a right sided forward at times so the idea of attacking is not a totally alien concept to him either.

Was he stinking against Morton in an attacking sense, yeah, but he’s a work in progress and there is absolutely no reason that with hard work, and good coaching he can’t develop his game and add and improve on elements of his game.

People keep talking about us having a model where we sign players who can improve, get better and then be sold on for profit and as soon as we sign a player who fits that mould and requires a bit of work to develop it’s branded a square peg in a round hole.

[the cry was no 3,043]

59 minutes ago, The Dude said:

He wasn’t. If he had, we’d have seen it regularly in pre-season. We didn’t. 

To be fair Sterling was injured in pre-season

I don't think Beale sees him as 1 of a back 3 though, he's put Lundstram back most of the time he's gone to a 3

 

[The Dude 20,026]

3 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

 

We will see, but based on what I read on here every day there’s people who can’t wait to criticise anything and everything that he does and those things are becoming more and more obscure now that we are on a bit of a run in terms of results.

See I don’t actually agree with your second point at all. Sterling said he prefers to defend first and foremost but he is still a relatively young player, and he has all the raw tools that people want in a full back on the modern game. He’s also played as a right sided forward at times so the idea of attacking is not a totally alien concept to him either.

Was he stinking against Morton in an attacking sense, yeah, but he’s a work in progress and there is absolutely no reason that with hard work, and good coaching he can’t develop his game and add and improve on elements of his game.

People keep talking about us having a model where we sign players who can improve, get better and then be sold on for profit and as soon as we sign a player who fits that mould and requires a bit of work to develop it’s branded a square peg in a round hole.

There was someone ( @bluenoz) moaning last night that we had too many Cbs on the bench v PSV. We had 12 subs named but having Balogun, Davies and King was far too many.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, the cry was no said:

To be fair Sterling was injured in pre-season

I don't think Beale sees him as 1 of a back 3 though, he's put Lundstram back most of the time he's gone to a 3

 

Right but if we're looking at using that shape regularly, we're not not going to get reps in playing it just because one player is injured.

Lundstram, Davies, Balogun or King will consistently go into a three before Sterling does

[graeme_4 34,894]

8 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

 

We will see, but based on what I read on here every day there’s people who can’t wait to criticise anything and everything that he does and those things are becoming more and more obscure now that we are on a bit of a run in terms of results.

See I don’t actually agree with your second point at all. Sterling said he prefers to defend first and foremost but he is still a relatively young player, and he has all the raw tools that people want in a full back on the modern game. He’s also played as a right sided forward at times so the idea of attacking is not a totally alien concept to him either.

Was he stinking against Morton in an attacking sense, yeah, but he’s a work in progress and there is absolutely no reason that with hard work, and good coaching he can’t develop his game and add and improve on elements of his game.

People keep talking about us having a model where we sign players who can improve, get better and then be sold on for profit and as soon as we sign a player who fits that mould and requires a bit of work to develop it’s branded a square peg in a round hole.

People were rightfully absolutely fizzing at the state of us in preseason and then the Killie result, but the rage has definitely subsided I think. I’m still entirely unconvinced by Beale, but that’s part of being a Rangers manager - you need success to keep everyone on side. He wins then the vast majority are delighted. Likewise you struggle or there’s red flags, then it’s the nature of the beast. 

I didn’t realise Sterling had played a more attacking role before, so when you only really have Morton (where he was poor) and the defensive soundbites it’s probably a snap judgement. Hopefully he comes good. 

The square peg round hole issue is probably more a legacy from the Gerrard era of signing wingers and making them ‘10s’ or playing our actual 10s too wide to be effective. That’s then been built on with Lammers as a 10, Raskin & Cifuentes wide in a diamond, Sima as a striker etc. 

[OrangeRab 2,889]

27 minutes ago, The Dude said:

So we do have a mobile CDM that fits out system, you just decided to ignore them?

Huh? We’re talking about Jack/Lundstrum who are playing the deep lying cdm role for us (with Raskin and Cifuentes slightly ahead).

I’ve never complained about Raskin or Cifuentes! Man you are on one today 😂

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

Huh? We’re talking about Jack/Lundstrum who are playing the deep lying cdm role for us (with Raskin and Cifuentes slightly ahead).

I’ve never complained about Raskin or Cifuentes! Man you are on one today 😂

You're right, you didn't complain about them, you just ignored them completely when you said:

1 hour ago, OrangeRab said:

The comparison was to mobile cdm to fit our system which we don’t have.

We do have a mobile CDM who can fit our sytem, we have two.

[OrangeRab 2,889]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

You're right, you didn't complain about them, you just ignored them completely when you said:

We do have a mobile CDM who can fit our sytem, we have two.

Big night last night? 😂. Thought your claim yesterday that fees don’t matter was a belter. But you’re slower today! Cba explaining to you again like a child. Go read the posts again. (Ps I’ve mentioned that it’s an option we could drop those 2 back. But under the current system he wants to play a midfield 3 with Jack/Lundstrum lying in the deeper role. Who aren’t mobile enough to fill in for Tav).  

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,770]

42 minutes ago, The Dude said:

`There's always pressure in Old Firms. Regardless of stake. Whether the title is done, we're separated by a bawhair or we're miles in front. We always demand the players show up against them.

Theres much much less pressure when the OF game is for bragging rights rather than the league being on the line

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, OrangeRab said:

Big night last night? 😂. Thought your claim yesterday that fees don’t matter was a belter. But you’re slower today! Cba explaining to you again like a child. Go read the posts again. (Ps I’ve mentioned that it’s an option we could drop those 2 back. But under the current system he wants to play a midfield 3 with Jack/Lundstrum lying in the deeper role. Who aren’t mobile enough to fill in for Tav).  

Cifuentes was the player who was filling.covering for Tav from midfield v PSV.

Did you watch the game?

[The Dude 20,026]

6 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

Big night last night? 😂. Thought your claim yesterday that fees don’t matter was a belter. But you’re slower today! Cba explaining to you again like a child. Go read the posts again. (Ps I’ve mentioned that it’s an option we could drop those 2 back. But under the current system he wants to play a midfield 3 with Jack/Lundstrum lying in the deeper role. Who aren’t mobile enough to fill in for Tav).  

Never said that once. What I did say was a higher fee =/= better quality.

[The Dude 20,026]

5 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Theres much much less pressure when the OF game is for bragging rights rather than the league being on the line

Totally disagree. Can't think of ever going into an Old Firm - league finished or not - and thinking I couldn't really care less about the result.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 54,072]

1 hour ago, Smile said:

The game against was it Morton(not sure) he had him trying to push up playing the Tav role with him crossing in from the wing and he looked like a fish out of water.

A role he says himself in a interview he cannot play.

"I can play many roles so I don't fear Tav being the captain, it is about competition.

"You need competition all over the pitch, that's how everyone will get better. No one slips up, that's how you stay a winning team and you need that the whole season, plus there is more than one game per week.

"I like to prioritise on my defending. It is really important.

"A lot of defenders now, right-backs, left-backs, they get judged on their stats up the pitch but defensively they are not great.

"So I like to do my defending, win my one-to-one battles and when the chance arrives to go forward, do that and help the team but knowing that my team-mates and manager has trust in me to be able to defend

 

I've read the above interview which says no such thing. Which interview / quote is it you've read him say he CANT play that role? 

I'll expect this to be another lot of bollox / lies which you'll never respond to or answer 🤣🤣🤣

[kelvd1873 7,306]

1 hour ago, nik2402 said:

I think we need to move away from being a team that expects so much from him. Our strikers and midfielders should be taking over from him

Bingo

[King Jela 20,582]

11 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Don't know why I'm talking about Europe in a thread where Tav is getting written off as usual by folk on the back of not being able to handle the pressure of last night's European game?

Have a wee think about it...

The thread wasn't started to comment on his ability to handle pressure though. It's about how he's clearly being asked to do to much with an acknowledgement that he's clearly regressed. 

You're the one fixating on 'pressure' 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 54,072]

1 hour ago, graeme_4 said:

Not really. If he’s successful, then everyone will love him.

And on the Sterling thing, it’s clear we need a set of fullbacks that can defend a bit better that we have recently - but you can’t then ask the ‘defensive’ fullback to fulfil the attacking role Tav does and provide all the width in the team. 

It’s the square pegs round hole stuff again. 

That's exactly the unfair complaint many have re Tav - his defending. There's a demand for him to be stronger defensively AND be a wing back getting the goal contributions he does. It's unrealistic. And will be nigh on impossible to get as a replacement so folk need to get their heads round us not getting in full backs who defend strongly but sit high / top of our charts for contributions.

[OrangeRab 2,889]

40 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Never said that once. What I did say was a higher fee =/= better quality.

😂