We need to have a serious conversation about Tav

[Smile 26,622]

1 minute ago, The Godfather said:

Pace and athleticism used to cover for his defensive weaknesses seasons ago but obviously those have dwindled and it's a huge worry down that side.

Guys been heroic for us but we need a replacement and long term option. Tav isn't picking himself so I don't want him to tarnish his time with us being played constantly when it's clear he's not up to it.

Club should have addressed this 

But Beale thinks he has he has brought in Sterling a completely different player who cannot do what Tavernier does, yet he still wants to play the system with the fullbacks pushing up.

 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, OrangeRab said:

I mean I was mostly referencing Jack who has really lost mobility. Lundstrum has never been quick and isn’t getting quicker. (Although he did have a spell where he looked more lively the season before last)

I think you understand the point. Don’t try and derail another thread 

Detailing a thread by responding directly to points made in the thread? You’re a fucking idiot.

[JackAlex93 11,572]

19 minutes ago, Smile said:

Cifuentes was very poor the other night and that drew out Tav and in turn drew Goldson out wide that was always PSV plan.

I thought Goldson was fantastic and I was starting to worry his time was up with the niggling injuries players get as they get older.

Thats why when you play the diamond formation you need plenty of legs in the midfield to get around the park. Midfielders need to get through a huge amount of work, same as the full backs

 

[Smile 26,622]

19 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

He is slow, same as Jack. Neither are what you’d call mobile regardless of age. 

Last season in the game against them I watched Jack completely give up on chasing O Reilly, he just didn't have the run in him, I thought I'm kind of glad this is his last season, but no another year when we know he's nowhere near the player he was.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 54,247]

41 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

The problem is we have two ageing full backs but also ageing and very slow CDM in Jack/Lundstrum.

Tav can defend one on one. He’s not a world class defender but the main problem is he doesn’t have a world class engine anymore.

But given what he offers us offensively vs Sterling we should be able to adapt.

Man City have Rodri and Kovacic who drop in and cover when their full backs get caught high. It’s the same formula for almost all the front foot Prem teams now.

How many times do you see Jack sprinting back and killing a counter attack? Or dropping in and filling in for Tav. 

The first goal the other night was because Jack (maybe should have been Cifuentes) didn’t track and keep with the runner behind.

When we play Jack/Lundstrum we don’t ask them to do anything offensively. So there’s no excuse for them not to be tracking and filling the full back space. They just don’t seem to have the legs to do it 

 

Who did Cifuentes think was going to track the CH who ran by him into our RB area when Tav had obviously to him vacated that area following his own man? 

Jack was central at that point and went across but had too much ground to make to block the cross.

Imo Cifuentes ball watched, not for the only time that night, and played a key role in that goal.

[The Godfather 72,587]

8 minutes ago, Smile said:

But Beale thinks he has he has brought in Sterling a completely different player who cannot do what Tavernier does, yet he still wants to play the system with the fullbacks pushing up.

 

Sterling is a bit if a utility man at the back, I'm not so sure he is seen as Tavs long term replacement as he was never an attacking full back at Chelsea or the loan clubs he has been to. 

 

[ForeverAndEver 72,060]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

So there’s as much pressure v Livi as Celtic. 

I think you probably could make an argument for it due to demands from fans, aye.

57 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Personally, I agree but it seems the goalposts are on wheels when it comes to Tav so folk can quickly shift them. 

Old Firm games are alway pressure games because we aren’t the underdogs and fans always expect us to beat them. 

Yet theres no pressure in games against other sides where, sometimes, even a win isn’t good enough? 

 

Nobody said there was no pressure. He was shite last season regardless of opponent.

[Smile 26,622]

1 minute ago, The Godfather said:

Sterling is a bit if a utility man at the back, I'm not so sure he is seen as Tavs long term replacement as he was never an attacking full back at Chelsea or the loan clubs he has been to. 

 

Do you not see a bit of a pattern with Beale he brings in a player who plays one position then tries to convert him to another, He's doing it with Lammers now.

I know players are adaptable and can play different positions but if you want teams to gel you play players within that team in their strongest position.

[AGM_72 3,727]

3 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Who did Cifuentes think was going to track the CH who ran by him into our RB area when Tav had obviously to him vacated that area following his own man? 

Jack was central at that point and went across but had too much ground to make to block the cross.

Imo Cifuentes ball watched, not for the only time that night, and played a key role in that goal.

Yep, and while Cifuentes didn't have a great game he had a thankless task (as did Tav). They frequently created overloads down the sides, 3v2 or 2v1. Whether it was a centre mid or centre back, they often moved wide to help Dest and Lang get further up the pitch and create 2v1s in our final third. The flipside, and gamble, is that if we can nick the ball early as they try to build the attack we're right in on them.

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

I think you probably could make an argument for it due to demands from fans, aye.

Nobody said there was no pressure. He was shite last season regardless of opponent.

18 goals and 10 assists for an attacking RB isnt shite in any universe. He wasn’t at his best but he wasn’t shite. Hyperbolic nonsense. 

[Smile 26,622]

1 minute ago, AGM_72 said:

Yep, and while Cifuentes didn't have a great game he had a thankless task (as did Tav). They frequently created overloads down the sides, 3v2 or 2v1. Whether it was a centre mid or centre back, they often moved wide to help Dest and Lang get further up the pitch and create 2v1s in our final third. The flipside, and gamble, is that if we can nick the ball early as they try to build the attack we're right in on them.

Risk and reward it was pretty much the same tactics we saw from Postecoglu.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

So there’s as much pressure v Livi as Celtic. 

 

1 hour ago, graeme_4 said:

We’ll that’s just not true is it. 

 

5 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

I think you probably could make an argument for it due to demands from fans, aye.

😂 Chance you got?

[OrangeRab 3,017]

19 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Detailing a thread by responding directly to points made in the thread? You’re a fucking idiot.

Because you just try and catch people out for no reason. I’m sure you’re an intelligent guy and got the point. That teams that set up with high full backs have mobile cm to drop and cover.

Kovacic is still mobile. Almost all the prem teams have mobile cm. Jack and Lundstrum aren’t as mobile as they were a few years ago. (Age, injuries etc).

You do it on every thread

[ForeverAndEver 72,060]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

18 goals and 10 assists for an attacking RB isnt shite in any universe. He wasn’t at his best but he wasn’t shite. Hyperbolic nonsense. 

He was. Set pieces don’t change that.

 

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

 

😂 Chance you got?

There’s a much pressure on us winning on Saturday than there is next Sunday

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, OrangeRab said:

Because you just try and catch people out for no reason. I’m sure you’re an intelligent guy and got the point. That teams that set up with high full backs have mobile cm to drop and cover.

Kovacic is still mobile. Almost all the prem teams have mobile cm. Jack and Lundstrum aren’t as mobile as they were a few years ago. (Age, injuries etc).

You do it on every thread

Incredible that a player playing for Man City is more mobile than a guy playing for Rangers. 😂

[OrangeRab 3,017]

Just now, The Dude said:

Incredible that a player playing for Man City is more mobile than a guy playing for Rangers. 😂

Again you’re just trying to be a smart arse. So pointless.. 

[The Dude 20,026]

4 minutes ago, ForeverAndEver said:

He was. Set pieces don’t change that.

 

There’s a much pressure on us winning on Saturday than there is next Sunday

Then why were the ‘better performers’ last season nowhere close (again) - both the fans AND the players voted him as player of the year so he can’t have been that bad. And if he was that bad, it’s pretty damning on the rest of the squad that they thought he was our best player last year. 

[The Dude 20,026]

4 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

Again you’re just trying to be a smart arse. So pointless.. 

not trying to be a smart arse. Just don’t get the point you’re making about Lundstram being ageing while comparing him to a guy  two months younger than him.

Im sure you’ll say it was an ‘extreme example’ to emphasise the point like you usually do when you’re talking pish. 

[cr3_bear 15,017]

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

So there’s as much pressure v Livi as Celtic. 

Would say it’s a different kind of pressure 

when we play Livingston 9 times out of ten Rangers are expected and should win. That’s a different pressure and requires a difference in mindset.  When it doesn’t happen expect the result and performance to be scrutinised deeply by the support , media etc 

way it has always been with us and always will be as we are a club that demands constant success 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, cr3_bear said:

Would say it’s a different kind of pressure 

when we play Livingston 9 times out of ten Rangers are expected and should win. That’s a different pressure and requires a difference in mindset.  When it doesn’t happen expect the result and performance to be scrutinised deeply by the support , media etc 

way it has always been with us and always will be as we are a club that demands constant success 

Apparently that’s also true of Old Firm games 

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,363]

23 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

Sterling is a bit if a utility man at the back, I'm not so sure he is seen as Tavs long term replacement as he was never an attacking full back at Chelsea or the loan clubs he has been to. 

 

Interesting that people have wanted an alternative to Tav for years. People constantly talking about his defensive frailties and whatnot and as soon as Beale signs somebody who gives us that differing option he’s getting criticised for it.

I’ve said more than once that I have my doubts about Beale, but he’s in a can’t win position with some supporters already.

[theiconicman 3,002]

12 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

Because you just try and catch people out for no reason. I’m sure you’re an intelligent guy and got the point. That teams that set up with high full backs have mobile cm to drop and cover.

Kovacic is still mobile. Almost all the prem teams have mobile cm. Jack and Lundstrum aren’t as mobile as they were a few years ago. (Age, injuries etc).

You do it on every thread

He's a pedantic shit, looking to prove how smart he is, ignore his baiting.

[theiconicman 3,002]

28 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Who did Cifuentes think was going to track the CH who ran by him into our RB area when Tav had obviously to him vacated that area following his own man? 

Jack was central at that point and went across but had too much ground to make to block the cross.

Imo Cifuentes ball watched, not for the only time that night, and played a key role in that goal.

I've been really impressed with Cifu but he does need to work on his concentration as I've also noticed he gets caught ball watching at times.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, theiconicman said:

He's a pedantic shit, looking to prove how smart he is, ignore his baiting.

Certainly don’t need to do that. 

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,363]

As far as Tav goes, he’s been a fantastic player for us and has repaid his fee about ten times over but he’s playing like a player who’s played a lot of football over the past decade and is starting to lose a yard of sharpness. However, I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if Tav ended up being one of our better players over the course of the season because he’s got form for being a slow starter during seasons and getting better as the campaign goes on.

I’ve always maintained that this season should have been the season where we identified and signed his long term replacement and we worked towards transitioning from Tav being the first choice right back to whoever we signed becoming the first choice right back, but I also get that we’ve had to do a massive overhaul of the squad to do that could be something for the next window or maybe even next Summer’s window.