Burnbank Derry

Depends who is viewing the VAR?

Depends who is viewing the VAR?

Depends who is viewing the VAR?

Systemic Failures and celtic East Boys Club
rick roberts Uncategorised 3rd Dec 2020 9 Minutes
In the aftermath of any major incident an investigation will look for the root-causes and failings that contributed to the incident. It’s seldom that one singular act or accident leads to a large disaster. It’s more often a series of oversights or short-cuts, human error or system error, poor design or poor behaviour, all of which compound to escalate events or allow that final mistake. And so it was with the celtic child sexual abuse scandal.
Of course, this isn’t human-error by way of accident, this was by human design. A calculated targeting and exploitation of any weaknesses in the system, and in society, by the predators. The normal checks and barriers bypassed and left ajar to allow them to carry out their depravity.
In this instance the course or scale of events cannot be separated from the club that facilitated it. In many ways it’s central to it and despite appeals of deniability and unaccountability it was the name and resources of the parent club that provided to platform for the predators to build upon. It was the culture and community that allowed them to meet and pool together to identify the opportunity. celtic FC then provided the tools and resources (people/locations/time/money) that built and enabled the operation. And institutionally, it provided (and still provides) the protection and shelter that allowed the abuse to hide, after reporting, then continue for so long.
The celtic scandal stands apart in many ways but essentially this wasn’t solely a failing where a single predator slipped through the net. It was more intrinsic and contrived than that. Where the failure was allowed at source and seeped through from there.
celtic East Boys Club
Take the example of celtic East Boys Club, this was initiated and resourced by celtic FC in 1989. It would be their gateway club in the east, based in Edinburgh, and would form part of their planned nationwide network. The official club coaching structure includes Edinburgh (celtic East Boys Club), alongside other boys clubs (Dundee, Aberdeen, Ayrshire and Ireland), all of which followed a similar genesis and were very much part of the clubs strategy. Much of this was overseen by celtic Youth Development Officer Benny Rooney and Willie McStay. Any details in this article are all documented in Celtics official newspaper, the celtic View, and these boys clubs were very much considered part of celtic FC. Funding and resources had been provided by the parent club. Strips and equipment shared. With training/awards/competitions regularly hosted and attended by senior staff and players.
The date of 1989 was very much within the abyss of the Kelly / McGinn reign at celtic. Hindsight would show us this to be a time when many predators were at the club and its boys clubs. A time when abuse and behaviour (through reports, accusations and gossip) would have been well known to Kelly and McGinn and the wider celtic community. By this stage, any respectable institution should’ve been hyper-sensitive to the issue and even a cursory level of vigilance would’ve prevented it. But this was Kelly and McGinn’s celtic and things had gone very, very wrong.
Info: Jack McGinn began his time with celtic in 1965 when he started the celtic View newspaper. Given his success he was appointed Commercial Manager in 1981 and with that a seat on the Board. He was appointed Vice Chairman 1985 and in 1986 he became the Chairman, a position he held until 1994. During this time he was a business associate with Jim Torbett, alongside Kevin Kelly. McGinn went on to be appointed as Treasurer of the SFA and later President of the SFA in 1997. It seems incredulous that, as he claims, McGinn would not be aware of rumours and complaints against Torbett (or any of the others).
Info: Kevin Kelly followed his family into his role as celtic Director from 1971 to-1994. Kelly was also a business associate of Jim Torbett and brought him back to celtic in 1980. Both Kelly and McGinn would’ve gave blessing for the formation of many of the boys clubs. His time at celtic also spanned that of convicted predators Jim McCafferty (celtic youth team coach and kit-man), Gerald King (boys club coach) and Frank Cairney (boys club manager and coach). Both Kelly and McGinn presided over an internal investigation into the abuse in the late 80s, which found no wrong-doing and cleared Torbett of any wrong-doing. Kelly has been claiming no knowledge or no memory of events for some time now. Given the now known facts and incidents that occurred on their watch, these gentlemen cannot by any measure be considered good decent men (sic).
Back to 1989 – the now notorious predators Torbett and McCafferty were around celtic at this time and McCafferty was known to both take interest and get involved at celtic East. Accusations against both would’ve been public knowledge by this stage (the open secret). The only explanation for continued involvement of both was that they had the blessing (tacit or otherwise) of celtic’s management.
Neil Strachan found his way to celtic East and worked as a coach and also club secretary. Strachan had already been convicted for indecency in 1985. Who allowed his involvement at celtic East? He was later jailed for life for horrific acts of abuse in 1997. As an aside, one of Strachan’s co-accused was James Rennie. James Rennie was a registered director for LGBT YOUTH SCOTLAND (Company number SC244805), alongside a certain Mr Martin Henry. Who just happens to chair the SFAs murky, compromised and long overdue ‘independent’ review in historical child sexual abuse. It’s a small, co-incidental world for some.
Through the benefit of hindsight, we now know at least 8 convicted predators worked across the celtic network. Some survivors suggest the number is closer to 14, This cannot all be put down to isolated or unhappy accidents. This is failure after failure by those employed within celtic and those working tirelessly to brush it all under the carpet.
The objective of the boys club was to tap into the stream of celtics chosen identities, and the ambitions of any young wannabe footballer, and provide players for celtic FC. And celtic East boys club achieved those objectives, which some of the players, like Mark Burchill, making it all the way through to the first team. Others like Darren Fletcher, Marc Anthony, Sean Kilgannon, Lawrence Haggart, Tadg Moriarty, Charlie King and David Devenney all passed through the club. There’s some familiar names in there and there’s no doubt they believed they were in the official celtic system.
One name that may stand out is that of Lawrence Haggart. Reported to be a very gifted footballer, fate cruelly offset that gift with more tragedy than anyone should have to suffer. Haggart was known have had contact with convicted predators Neil Strachan, Jim McCafferty and Brian Beattie. Haggart later moved onto the celtic youth teams until he was murdered in 1996. Brian Beattie was later charged with his murder. Here we have networks of criminality intermingling, which as an isolated incident then perhaps Celtics involvement and failings could be written off. But it’s hardly isolated.
Singular Entity
The separate entity argument isn’t just a furtive legal pretence thrown out to the general public. It’s a direct disrespect to their own players (and their families) that have been through the system. No-one dismantles the separate entity fallacy better than the celtic View and other established reporters for the celtic family at the time (amongst others the ubiquitous Hugh Keevins). Article after article, feature after feature, year upon year – it’s all there in the official magazine. But then we know that ‘the cause’ is paramount for some people. For them writing celtic news translates to writing only what they choose for people to hear, however, there’s a line crossed where nothing but good news becomes misleading, becomes propaganda. Unfortunately, this is a trait that many at celtic View have carried with them to the outside.
Later on, as conviction followed conviction, the normal response from colleagues and associates would be to disown and denounce, especially if they had been in your presence for so long that it shades your own character and judgement. Surely you would want to criticise the perpetrators, the system and its failings.  I haven’t seen any of that. Just stonewall. A stubborn, misguided and immoral adherence to what? And for why? Only they can know that. And the same for Kelly and McGinn. And other board members. And other staff. And those outside the club working on its behalf. Silence or obstruction or even worse aggression towards survivors or those questioning the whole thing.
Consequences
Let’s be clear, no explanation is required for demanding action against those that abuse children. Tribal allegiances/point-scoring/vested-interests/whatever, it’s irrelevant – the crime is absolute. No-one asks for an explanation when voting, or when giving to charity, and no explanations are required here. From any angle my underlying thought on this is that I cannot see how celtic can escape this without assuming full responsibility and a commensurate level of punishment or sanction. Justice demands something to happen.
My line of reasoning follows that any institution should be responsible for the actions of those running it at the time, pretty universal stuff. For example, should the directors choose to withhold tax then they are acting for the club and the club deals with the consequences. Should the club (directors/management) find out about a predator in their employ then it has a duty to act. Should the club choose to ignore abuse or complaints then it should face consequences. Should the directors choose to cover it up – consequences. Should the club knowingly re-employ predators – consequences.
Similarly, should the club decide to start a boys club, and use it’s staff and resources to set it up and run it, then it is responsible for that. Should they employ a predator, or a known predator, should they ignore abuse, should staff and directors choose to cover up any abuse – it has to face the consequences.
Headlines
Which leads on to how it has been played out. There’s two striking abnormalities concerning this scandal. A lack of continued exposure or pressure from the media. A lack of discussion/action on consequences. Of course, both these aren’t mutually exclusive and the control of one inhibits the occurrence of the other.
Part of me thinks that to achieve their aims the survivors need to push their starting demands out much further. To realign their bargaining point and/or as deliberate sensationalism to force the press to look twice – to set headlines, to grab the public’s attention and give their cause some oxygen.
This course of action would not be without reference. The Penn State scandal saw huge monetary and sporting sanctions. Of course, in Scotland a similar response may less forth-coming with the SFA appearing to be up to their necks in this as well – with their own investigations thoroughly compromised and conflicted.
Other clubs aren’t without failings and a full public enquiry would be the only way to allow facts to be established. It may be that Hibs and Rangers and others should face consequences and deserve sanction. So be it. Let’s start talking about fines and compensation in the millions of pounds. Let’s start talking about deducting points. Of course, based on available evidence Celtics scandal looks to be an order of magnitude above others, which presumably explains why they are content to maintain the silence.
Perhaps expulsion from the top league would energize the press and remind others of the gravity of the crimes? The journey back would give celtic time to reflect on the decades of crimes and litany of collective failings. A collective penitence? A chance to give back to Scottish football and allow it to heal. And importantly, to send the message that serious crimes are met with serious sanctions and cannot go unchecked.
A Basic Right to Innocence
My own memories of boys football are faded but generally happy ones. I recall training after school, muddy pitches, games on a Saturday morning. Occasionally there was travelling farther afield to competitions, typically once or twice a year to Glasgow. Staying in youth hostels. New places, new experiences. It was just good to be a part of it with friends and schoolmates. I’ve no idea now who any of the competition was or whether they went on to make it in the game. In my mind it remains a bubble of innocence and naivety, the way it should be. To be honest, I have gone decades without really thinking about it. I couldn’t imagine those days being damaged to a degree where it spoiled every day of my life. No child deserves what happened there. Every incident of abuse in football is a scandal in its own right. Collectively, the celtic scandal is a major disaster. As well as a continuing injustice and insult, which is why it should be everyone’s fight.

Depends who is viewing the VAR?

These cunts are gonny win the majority of their games fuck them, we need to concentrate on us we keep winning the titles ours regardless of what they do. Horrible papish bastards 

At last somebody calling it out.  
It's getting ridiculous , I banged into the telly and the wee cunt fell over . 

Systemic Failures and celtic East Boys Club
rick roberts Uncategorised 3rd Dec 2020 9 Minutes
In the aftermath of any major incident an investigation will look for the root-causes and failings that contributed to the incident. It’s seldom that one singular act or accident leads to a large disaster. It’s more often a series of oversights or short-cuts, human error or system error, poor design or poor behaviour, all of which compound to escalate events or allow that final mistake. And so it was with the celtic child sexual abuse scandal.
Of course, this isn’t human-error by way of accident, this was by human design. A calculated targeting and exploitation of any weaknesses in the system, and in society, by the predators. The normal checks and barriers bypassed and left ajar to allow them to carry out their depravity.
In this instance the course or scale of events cannot be separated from the club that facilitated it. In many ways it’s central to it and despite appeals of deniability and unaccountability it was the name and resources of the parent club that provided to platform for the predators to build upon. It was the culture and community that allowed them to meet and pool together to identify the opportunity. celtic FC then provided the tools and resources (people/locations/time/money) that built and enabled the operation. And institutionally, it provided (and still provides) the protection and shelter that allowed the abuse to hide, after reporting, then continue for so long.
The celtic scandal stands apart in many ways but essentially this wasn’t solely a failing where a single predator slipped through the net. It was more intrinsic and contrived than that. Where the failure was allowed at source and seeped through from there.
celtic East Boys Club
Take the example of celtic East Boys Club, this was initiated and resourced by celtic FC in 1989. It would be their gateway club in the east, based in Edinburgh, and would form part of their planned nationwide network. The official club coaching structure includes Edinburgh (celtic East Boys Club), alongside other boys clubs (Dundee, Aberdeen, Ayrshire and Ireland), all of which followed a similar genesis and were very much part of the clubs strategy. Much of this was overseen by celtic Youth Development Officer Benny Rooney and Willie McStay. Any details in this article are all documented in Celtics official newspaper, the celtic View, and these boys clubs were very much considered part of celtic FC. Funding and resources had been provided by the parent club. Strips and equipment shared. With training/awards/competitions regularly hosted and attended by senior staff and players.
The date of 1989 was very much within the abyss of the Kelly / McGinn reign at celtic. Hindsight would show us this to be a time when many predators were at the club and its boys clubs. A time when abuse and behaviour (through reports, accusations and gossip) would have been well known to Kelly and McGinn and the wider celtic community. By this stage, any respectable institution should’ve been hyper-sensitive to the issue and even a cursory level of vigilance would’ve prevented it. But this was Kelly and McGinn’s celtic and things had gone very, very wrong.
Info: Jack McGinn began his time with celtic in 1965 when he started the celtic View newspaper. Given his success he was appointed Commercial Manager in 1981 and with that a seat on the Board. He was appointed Vice Chairman 1985 and in 1986 he became the Chairman, a position he held until 1994. During this time he was a business associate with Jim Torbett, alongside Kevin Kelly. McGinn went on to be appointed as Treasurer of the SFA and later President of the SFA in 1997. It seems incredulous that, as he claims, McGinn would not be aware of rumours and complaints against Torbett (or any of the others).
Info: Kevin Kelly followed his family into his role as celtic Director from 1971 to-1994. Kelly was also a business associate of Jim Torbett and brought him back to celtic in 1980. Both Kelly and McGinn would’ve gave blessing for the formation of many of the boys clubs. His time at celtic also spanned that of convicted predators Jim McCafferty (celtic youth team coach and kit-man), Gerald King (boys club coach) and Frank Cairney (boys club manager and coach). Both Kelly and McGinn presided over an internal investigation into the abuse in the late 80s, which found no wrong-doing and cleared Torbett of any wrong-doing. Kelly has been claiming no knowledge or no memory of events for some time now. Given the now known facts and incidents that occurred on their watch, these gentlemen cannot by any measure be considered good decent men (sic).
Back to 1989 – the now notorious predators Torbett and McCafferty were around celtic at this time and McCafferty was known to both take interest and get involved at celtic East. Accusations against both would’ve been public knowledge by this stage (the open secret). The only explanation for continued involvement of both was that they had the blessing (tacit or otherwise) of celtic’s management.
Neil Strachan found his way to celtic East and worked as a coach and also club secretary. Strachan had already been convicted for indecency in 1985. Who allowed his involvement at celtic East? He was later jailed for life for horrific acts of abuse in 1997. As an aside, one of Strachan’s co-accused was James Rennie. James Rennie was a registered director for LGBT YOUTH SCOTLAND (Company number SC244805), alongside a certain Mr Martin Henry. Who just happens to chair the SFAs murky, compromised and long overdue ‘independent’ review in historical child sexual abuse. It’s a small, co-incidental world for some.
Through the benefit of hindsight, we now know at least 8 convicted predators worked across the celtic network. Some survivors suggest the number is closer to 14, This cannot all be put down to isolated or unhappy accidents. This is failure after failure by those employed within celtic and those working tirelessly to brush it all under the carpet.
The objective of the boys club was to tap into the stream of celtics chosen identities, and the ambitions of any young wannabe footballer, and provide players for celtic FC. And celtic East boys club achieved those objectives, which some of the players, like Mark Burchill, making it all the way through to the first team. Others like Darren Fletcher, Marc Anthony, Sean Kilgannon, Lawrence Haggart, Tadg Moriarty, Charlie King and David Devenney all passed through the club. There’s some familiar names in there and there’s no doubt they believed they were in the official celtic system.
One name that may stand out is that of Lawrence Haggart. Reported to be a very gifted footballer, fate cruelly offset that gift with more tragedy than anyone should have to suffer. Haggart was known have had contact with convicted predators Neil Strachan, Jim McCafferty and Brian Beattie. Haggart later moved onto the celtic youth teams until he was murdered in 1996. Brian Beattie was later charged with his murder. Here we have networks of criminality intermingling, which as an isolated incident then perhaps Celtics involvement and failings could be written off. But it’s hardly isolated.
Singular Entity
The separate entity argument isn’t just a furtive legal pretence thrown out to the general public. It’s a direct disrespect to their own players (and their families) that have been through the system. No-one dismantles the separate entity fallacy better than the celtic View and other established reporters for the celtic family at the time (amongst others the ubiquitous Hugh Keevins). Article after article, feature after feature, year upon year – it’s all there in the official magazine. But then we know that ‘the cause’ is paramount for some people. For them writing celtic news translates to writing only what they choose for people to hear, however, there’s a line crossed where nothing but good news becomes misleading, becomes propaganda. Unfortunately, this is a trait that many at celtic View have carried with them to the outside.
Later on, as conviction followed conviction, the normal response from colleagues and associates would be to disown and denounce, especially if they had been in your presence for so long that it shades your own character and judgement. Surely you would want to criticise the perpetrators, the system and its failings.  I haven’t seen any of that. Just stonewall. A stubborn, misguided and immoral adherence to what? And for why? Only they can know that. And the same for Kelly and McGinn. And other board members. And other staff. And those outside the club working on its behalf. Silence or obstruction or even worse aggression towards survivors or those questioning the whole thing.
Consequences
Let’s be clear, no explanation is required for demanding action against those that abuse children. Tribal allegiances/point-scoring/vested-interests/whatever, it’s irrelevant – the crime is absolute. No-one asks for an explanation when voting, or when giving to charity, and no explanations are required here. From any angle my underlying thought on this is that I cannot see how celtic can escape this without assuming full responsibility and a commensurate level of punishment or sanction. Justice demands something to happen.
My line of reasoning follows that any institution should be responsible for the actions of those running it at the time, pretty universal stuff. For example, should the directors choose to withhold tax then they are acting for the club and the club deals with the consequences. Should the club (directors/management) find out about a predator in their employ then it has a duty to act. Should the club choose to ignore abuse or complaints then it should face consequences. Should the directors choose to cover it up – consequences. Should the club knowingly re-employ predators – consequences.
Similarly, should the club decide to start a boys club, and use it’s staff and resources to set it up and run it, then it is responsible for that. Should they employ a predator, or a known predator, should they ignore abuse, should staff and directors choose to cover up any abuse – it has to face the consequences.
Headlines
Which leads on to how it has been played out. There’s two striking abnormalities concerning this scandal. A lack of continued exposure or pressure from the media. A lack of discussion/action on consequences. Of course, both these aren’t mutually exclusive and the control of one inhibits the occurrence of the other.
Part of me thinks that to achieve their aims the survivors need to push their starting demands out much further. To realign their bargaining point and/or as deliberate sensationalism to force the press to look twice – to set headlines, to grab the public’s attention and give their cause some oxygen.
This course of action would not be without reference. The Penn State scandal saw huge monetary and sporting sanctions. Of course, in Scotland a similar response may less forth-coming with the SFA appearing to be up to their necks in this as well – with their own investigations thoroughly compromised and conflicted.
Other clubs aren’t without failings and a full public enquiry would be the only way to allow facts to be established. It may be that Hibs and Rangers and others should face consequences and deserve sanction. So be it. Let’s start talking about fines and compensation in the millions of pounds. Let’s start talking about deducting points. Of course, based on available evidence Celtics scandal looks to be an order of magnitude above others, which presumably explains why they are content to maintain the silence.
Perhaps expulsion from the top league would energize the press and remind others of the gravity of the crimes? The journey back would give celtic time to reflect on the decades of crimes and litany of collective failings. A collective penitence? A chance to give back to Scottish football and allow it to heal. And importantly, to send the message that serious crimes are met with serious sanctions and cannot go unchecked.
A Basic Right to Innocence
My own memories of boys football are faded but generally happy ones. I recall training after school, muddy pitches, games on a Saturday morning. Occasionally there was travelling farther afield to competitions, typically once or twice a year to Glasgow. Staying in youth hostels. New places, new experiences. It was just good to be a part of it with friends and schoolmates. I’ve no idea now who any of the competition was or whether they went on to make it in the game. In my mind it remains a bubble of innocence and naivety, the way it should be. To be honest, I have gone decades without really thinking about it. I couldn’t imagine those days being damaged to a degree where it spoiled every day of my life. No child deserves what happened there. Every incident of abuse in football is a scandal in its own right. Collectively, the celtic scandal is a major disaster. As well as a continuing injustice and insult, which is why it should be everyone’s fight.

Brave young men one and all
C Company Volunteers 
 

Hope you’re right because he is going to get an innocent opponent sent off one of these days and then things will really kick off.
At any other club, his manager would say “fuck’s sake son, that’s enough” but Flange knew him from Japan and knew exactly what a dishonest wee cunt he is.
Even worse than Petrov, Larsson or Nakamura imo.

This warms my heart it really does 

Police should not be involved in pursuing a political agenda. It was aimed at us and the bheasts were raging when it was used against them. Why do you think it was revoked?

😂😂😂😂😂😂
one keeper, concedes 3 goals and makes a massive cunt of one in particular - 9
one keeper, clean sheet, when tested made point blank world class saves - 7
Let the seethe flow right through yous ya wee tarrier shites.

Police should not be involved in pursuing a political agenda. It was aimed at us and the bheasts were raging when it was used against them. Why do you think it was revoked?

Ashes series coming up on 7th December 
Cant see anything other than an easy win for the convicts. No matter I’m gutted not to be there, first one I’ve missed since 2006/7 series. Fuck covid and the restrictions 

Or sandcastles mate. 

Whos sending them, dundee 😂😂

Police should not be involved in pursuing a political agenda. It was aimed at us and the bheasts were raging when it was used against them. Why do you think it was revoked?

Get Well Soon