21,000 ST Renewed (updated)

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

well ally and the tactics can be a big part of the problem

you honestly think a father is going to turf out a grand a year for him and his two boys, when the last 2 years his two boys have complained that its "crap" and "boring"

you mention about "loyal when we are winning" platoon, we just went undefeated throughout a full league season, and i doubt you'll find many young children that enjoyed their matchday experience whatsoever

I think football supporter go for many reasons, and that's fine - if your a casual 'fan' and want to only go when we are winning trophies, or 'entertaining' then fine - I only go to home games - I think that's also fine (as most away games are on the TV and its a bugger getting tickets) but I find the fact that 'thousands' have deserted because of Ally quite off - I think there will be a few that will have done that - but thousands deserting us - sorry don't buy it. I also think that taking away the easy opitions to pay will have put a few off but not many.

Now, consolidated action, (and it's action I strongly disagree with) - I think that has cost us thousands of season tickets - there must be a few thousand in the 'singing' groups - that have withheld there monies for a start and the other's that follow sons of struth - and I can see that adding up.

I suspect that with NO promises of entertainment we will still have full houses at the Hibs and Hearts games.

[Adoniram 1,919]

Spot on, it's definately the whole day for me too, nothing beats going to the pub with your pals before and after the game, aye it's obviously better after a good win/performance but whatever the results I still can't think of anything else I'd rather be doing on a Saturday

The point made by others is down to affordability and value for money.

Gone are the days of fans taking their kids to the game on a whim. Too many kids these days see the EPL and La Liga and rightly or wrongly they love watching Ronaldo, Messi, Aguero etc etc

The financial crisis is nowhere near over despite things moving in the right direction.

I guess many fans were hoping the demotion would have been the start of a new era. 2 years down the line and the football is the worst many have seen in decades. And when that happens and kids get bored the inevitable happens and plenty don't renew.

Loyalty is admirable but fans (especially kids) want to see entertainment and when there isn't any you're in trouble.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,567]

Aye, nobody was having a go at that.

You said...

'do fans really believe that the off field nonsense caused us to drop 17k in ST's, maybe a couple of k but not 17k

One of the biggest reasons of the drop is simply on the park and how fucking honking we are, deosnt matter how loyal some of us are, if money is tight, and you have two weans that have been bored shitless for 2 years at ibrox, you probably wont be able to justify another season with increased prices

All it takes is 3000 familes (averaging 3 people a time) to put finances first and thats a hard 9000 ST's lost

make no mistake, entertainment is everything now and we offer heehaw '

The implication there is people will push the boat out as long as there's a bit of entertainment involved (you said that was the deciding factor in your scenario, not finance, you were not talking about someone that could simply not afford it either way) , and that it's not enough to go and support The Rangers. Which is fine, it's personal choice.

But that kind of thing does suggest there's two types of fan

A. Simply love going to see Rangers, good or bad. It's in their blood. Results and performances are important but won't stop them going.

B. People who go to Rangers if they are winning or providing entertaining performances. It's more like a cinema ticket to them.

Nothing wrong with it being B. There's nothing wrong with going to the cinema. But I think people tend to be in denial a little bit about the meaning of their motivations. B is why there tends to be a drop in crowds eventually when bad times come, just like in the early 80s.

what bad times, by all accounts we just won the league undefeated, its fuck all like the 80's

However football has changed from the beer drinking, singing, standing next to your mates saturday afternoon that our generation and our fathers loved so much, kids nowadays dont have the attention span

Finances and entertainment are linked unfortunately, a father trying to convince his missus that spending a grand to drag his weans to the football doesnt wash anymore

.

OK then, what about 'loyal when we are entertained' platoon? Children from all of the other Scottish clubs manage to enjoy it and be brought up as fans, despite gash football much of the time.

children from all other scottish clubs dont enjoy it, and being brought up as fans is different from actually buying a season ticket

im not trying to bash ally here, everyone knows my thoughts about how he has performed, but the fact is weans want to be entertained

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,567]

I think football supporter go for many reasons, and that's fine - if your a casual 'fan' and want to only go when we are winning trophies, or 'entertaining' then fine - I only go to home games - I think that's also fine (as most away games are on the TV and its a bugger getting tickets) but I find the fact that 'thousands' have deserted because of Ally quite off - I think there will be a few that will have done that - but thousands deserting us - sorry don't buy it. I also think that taking away the easy opitions to pay will have put a few off but not many.

Now, consolidated action, (and it's action I strongly disagree with) - I think that has cost us thousands of season tickets - there must be a few thousand in the 'singing' groups - that have withheld there monies for a start and the other's that follow sons of struth - and I can see that adding up.

i agree about the SoS and the UoF numbers, but i still think that the entertainment on show is worth the same if not more, as i said earlier, a family of 3 decides it isnt worth the money anymore, so a thousand familes like this totes up quite big

we'll never know mind you, so its all speculation

I suspect that with NO promises of entertainment we will still have full houses at the Hibs and Hearts games.

i agree, and a lot will be game by game from both the fans groups and the familes that didnt buy ST's

[sprotson11 147]

I think football supporter go for many reasons, and that's fine - if your a casual 'fan' and want to only go when we are winning trophies, or 'entertaining' then fine - I only go to home games - I think that's also fine (as most away games are on the TV and its a bugger getting tickets) but I find the fact that 'thousands' have deserted because of Ally quite off - I think there will be a few that will have done that - but thousands deserting us - sorry don't buy it. I also think that taking away the easy opitions to pay will have put a few off but not many.

Now, consolidated action, (and it's action I strongly disagree with) - I think that has cost us thousands of season tickets - there must be a few thousand in the 'singing' groups - that have withheld there monies for a start and the other's that follow sons of struth - and I can see that adding up.

I suspect that with NO promises of entertainment we will still have full houses at the Hibs and Hearts games.

I agree that supporters go to games for many reasons. If I had to rank in order the reasons for supporters not renewing, it would be 1)Payment options 2) SOS followers etc 3)Ally

[Adoniram 1,919]

I agree that supporters go to games for many reasons. If I had to rank in order the reasons for supporters not renewing, it would be 1)Payment options 2) SOS followers etc 3)Ally

And when you combine all 3 i think it's remarkable we have the amount of renewals we have.

[Inigo 32,534]

what bad times, by all accounts we just won the league undefeated, its fuck all like the 80's

However football has changed from the beer drinking, singing, standing next to your mates saturday afternoon that our generation and our fathers loved so much, kids nowadays dont have the attention span

Finances and entertainment are linked unfortunately, a father trying to convince his missus that spending a grand to drag his weans to the football doesnt wash anymore

.

children from all other scottish clubs dont enjoy it, and being brought up as fans is different from actually buying a season ticket

im not trying to bash ally here, everyone knows my thoughts about how he has performed, but the fact is weans want to be entertained

The comparison with the 80s is in relation to the standard of football being less than normally expected. It's completely relevant.

Football has not changed much in the sense you imply. It remains that social thing you describe for many, including me. And there are still glory hunters and there are still 'cinema fans'. Finances and entertainment are linked, of course, who said it wasn't? the point is that many people, including people on the edge of being able to afford it, make the decision based on entertainment value. Others don't. If they can just about afford it then they go because it means something more to them.

Basically, you're description is of the death of the love of Rangers and that Rangers, for most, is just an entertainment. You may be right. I hope you're wrong. As I say, I don't think we can keep patting ourselves in the back for being fantastically loyal fans that pack the house in the worst of circumstances as we have in the last few years if we no longer attend because the football is not good.

It's at times like this that those that go for entertainment, and those that go for the tradition and depth of feeling are separated. The 80s is perfectly relevant in illustrating this. Shite football, mid-table and fans drift away. In comes Souness with a better brand and some good players and within a season the stands are full again. That had nothing to do with kids and their attention spans, and neither does this. Attention spans is just an easy red-herring. You don't give children enough credit, and they've always had various alternative forms of entertainment to distract them.

The question I would ask anyone thinking of not renewing is; is it in your blood or is it simply a form of entertainment? Each will know and each will make their decision based on that. I certainly hope there are more of the former. Don't kid yourself on though if, being able to afford it (even if only just), you decide not to go because of the standard of football, that that does not make you less passionate a fan than that fan that goes through all troubles. It doesn't make that fan a better man, but it does make him a more passionate and deep-felt follower of the club. May not feel good to hear it, but that's how it is.

[1690tamRFC 5,001]

The point made by others is down to affordability and value for money.

Gone are the days of fans taking their kids to the game on a whim. Too many kids these days see the EPL and La Liga and rightly or wrongly they love watching Ronaldo, Messi, Aguero etc etc

The financial crisis is nowhere near over despite things moving in the right direction.

I guess many fans were hoping the demotion would have been the start of a new era. 2 years down the line and the football is the worst many have seen in decades. And when that happens and kids get bored the inevitable happens and plenty don't renew.

Loyalty is admirable but fans (especially kids) want to see entertainment and when there isn't any you're in trouble.

I do agree with you mate, and completely understand anyone not being able to renew due to financial situations, I've always been fairly lucky in that respect and was only meaning from my point of view, and to be honest if people chose not to renew for any reason it's not my place to tell them their wrong.

[ManchestGer 347]

I remember in Division 3 it seemed a lot more families were at Ibrox, I always wondered then whether they would be able to keep it up as prices increased as it can't be cheap for a family on a fortnightly basis. For me I only have to pay for my own ticket/travel/alcohol so it's not as much of an issue for me.

On a personal note though there's times when I'm sat there in the freezing cold and we're losing to the likes of Annan and wondering why I bother but the truth is I just can't stay away, as soon as we have a free week or two I miss it and can't wait to get back.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,567]

The comparison with the 80s is in relation to the standard of football being less than normally expected. It's completely relevant.

Football has not changed much in the sense you imply. It remains that social thing you describe for many, including me. And there are still glory hunters and there are still 'cinema fans'. Finances and entertainment are linked, of course, who said it wasn't? the point is that many people, including people on the edge of being able to afford it, make the decision based on entertainment value. Others don't. If they can just about afford it then they go because it means something more to them.

Basically, you're description is of the death of the love of Rangers and that Rangers, for most, is just an entertainment. You may be right. I hope you're wrong. As I say, I don't think we can keep patting ourselves in the back for being fantastically loyal fans that pack the house in the worst of circumstances as we have in the last few years if we no longer attend because the football is not good.

It's at times like this that those that go for entertainment, and those that go for the tradition and depth of feeling are separated. The 80s is perfectly relevant in illustrating this. Shite football, mid-table and fans drift away. In comes Souness with a better brand and some good players and within a season the stands are full again. That had nothing to do with kids and their attention spans, and neither does this. Attention spans is just an easy red-herring. You don't give children enough credit, and they've always had various alternative forms of entertainment to distract them.

The question I would ask anyone thinking of not renewing is; is it in your blood or is it simply a form of entertainment? Each will know and each will make their decision based on that. I certainly hope there are more of the former. Don't kid yourself on though if, being able to afford it (even if only just), you decide not to go because of the standard of football, that that does not make you less passionate a fan than that fan that goes through all troubles. It doesn't make that fan a better man, but it does make him a more passionate and deep-felt follower of the club. May not feel good to hear it, but that's how it is.

you bring up the football from the 80's again when its 2 completely different scenarios, you rightly mention about mid table finishes and shite football, but now we have had an undefeated league season yet the fans arent coming back again,

as for it being in the blood, your last paragraph is quite frankly highly disrespectful to fans that might well have followed rangers everywhere for god knows how many seasons, no matter how deep rangers run in your veins, family will ALWAYS come first

some guys that spent thousands upon thousands following rangers when they had no responsibilities deserve a break from people giving them grief because now they have other things to think about other than rangers

[elephants stoned 2,994]

21k mate.

I will change thread title

Was expecting more than that

[weshallnotbemoved! 714]

if at the start of this journey we were told that we would still have 21k at this stage, most would not be too disappointed.

[Inigo 32,534]

you bring up the football from the 80's again when its 2 completely different scenarios, you rightly mention about mid table finishes and shite football, but now we have had an undefeated league season yet the fans arent coming back again,

as for it being in the blood, your last paragraph is quite frankly highly disrespectful to fans that might well have followed rangers everywhere for god knows how many seasons, no matter how deep rangers run in your veins, family will ALWAYS come first

some guys that spent thousands upon thousands following rangers when they had no responsibilities deserve a break from people giving them grief because now they have other things to think about other than rangers

I'll start with your middle paragraph. You're missing the point. I don't begrudge someone putting family first, of course not. I would. If you can't afford it, fair enough. No quibbles. Your premise was that if someone was in the balance about being able to afford it, performances might sway them. In that instance, however tight you are talking, it is not finance that has made the final call. One guy will go, because he loves the Gers, the other with the same finance will not. It is the same point about knowing what it means to people.

Not being able to afford it is not the issue. The reasoning that it is the standard of football is an entirely different matter, regardless of your income. I have already explained this. I am repeating myself.

The 80s does not represent a different scenario. It is entirely comparable. In both instances it was/is shite football causing the problem. Even if one is shite football and the other shite results (bizarre - you rarely see frequent shite results but played with dazzling football), in each case the people choosing to stay away are clearly showing their love of the football club is not sufficient for them. In each case, we can no longer say we are brilliant loyal fans.

[kelvd1873 7,184]

It is an utter disgrace that this board has lost half our seasons ticket holders from the last two seasons and still have no scouting system in place.

Not fit for purpose.

Well if the club is losing money because the haters are not renewing, won't that make it harder for the club to organise a scouting system? You can't have everything.

[allcinaye 336]

Maybe this would be a possible solution for some of the people who can't get to the game on a regular basis and therefore feel that there would be no justification in buying a season ticket.

[TheBluenose1972 1,405]

Maybe this would be a possible solution for some of the people who can't get to the game on a regular basis and therefore feel that there would be no justification in buying a season ticket.

Can Robots be arrested for singing The Billy Boys?

[allcinaye 336]

Can Robots be arrested for singing The Billy Boys?

In our country, yes, they probably would be.

[Blumhoilann 6,712]

Septic will be applying for a GCC grant to fill their top stand with those bots to hide the green seat brigade.

[1690tamRFC 5,001]

Has there been any figure released yet to where we are with ST sales ?

[one55 1,510]

Has there been any figure released yet to where we are with ST sales ?

last i heard it was 17,000. i don't know where it's said we've sold 21,000.

[Inigo 32,534]

last i heard it was 17,000. i don't know where it's said we've sold 21,000.

17 000 was only renewals before public sale.

[1690tamRFC 5,001]

Still a surprisingly low number even with all what's been going on. Disappointed to be honest, I really thought that a lot of the people who had not renewed would gave in the closer it got to the start of the season.

[Frank Reynolds 3,359]

Still a surprisingly low number even with all what's been going on. Disappointed to be honest, I really thought that a lot of the people who had not renewed would gave in the closer it got to the start of the season.

Agreed.

However, if someone had said to me six months ago that we would be on 21k at this point, I wouldn't have been too upset

[orange&blue92 1,284]

Me and my mate, never renewed but we did get season tickets for this season. I know a few more folk on the same boat, anyone know the count on season tickets sold (non-renewed)?

[dunipace 9]

At ibrox today for tickets hibs game,one person had lost his seats for bar 72 had to take not so good seats others renewing as we'll.