Do We Need Wide Wingers ?

[tannerall 25,935]

Our style is not about running at opposition players, taking them on in a 50-50 basis, or high 50-50 balls from the wings in to a big immobile centre forward, it's about keeping possession allied with pace, movement and accurate passing.

Much of our attacks are down the line from defence through midfield with the defender pushing forward. 

Tavernier and Wallace are great at overlapping and getting final balls into dangerous attacking areas. And they need the space to do so,relying on other midfielders pulling the opposition in and away from those wide areas. 

A player like McKay operates better sitting a little bit inside rather than playing wide too, is more direct as illustrated by the goal against cellic.

And when we played Aird and Templeton they seldom played as direct wingers, our style dictated they were more inside forwards enabling our powerful full backs to get down the outside positions.

So what if we need the ball hit up and over in to the box or into space for a (big ? ) attacker to fight for chase, or even the long out ball to the corners for our fast forwards to take advantage of ?

Well I'm thinking back too, to the season Andy Carroll caused mayhem to Premier League defenders at Newcastle. One guy was so good at providing Carroll with the ammunition which got him into the England team that year providing long passes, free kicks and corners with accuracy, and impressed so much that year he made the England squad on the basis of it. Step forward Joey Barton............

As Aird and Templeton proved, wide wingers don't suit our style. We don't need any.

 

[graeme_4 34,617]

Aird and Templeton are red herrings IMO, neither had any significant game time under W&W and we've only had our new 'style' since they implemented it.

I think having one out and out wide man (eg Neil McCann) will help, particularly in the bigger games when either full back sits in when the other goes forward.

Don't think there's a hope of us signing someone in the mound of Carrol. Might see someone big and physical, but they'd also have to be able to play (Drogba like maybe?). 

Intetested to see who we bring in up front, barely been a CF rumour at all. 

[Donaldson72 36]

Pretty sure we only have one left winger with that being McKay. MOH, Forrester and even Waghorn all play on the right. So I guess we could do with a left winger.

[SwallowsHisOwnSpunk 7,812]

McKay is definetley still a winger, the fact is modern day winger are expected to be able to play inside aswell as go outside, its all part of the modern game wingers no longer just hug the touch line run up throne and whip crosses in that's only a small part of their game. I can't think of any modern day elite wingers who play that way if they did they wouldn't be playing at an elite level.

 

Players with Pace & Skill who run at the opposition will always be necessary to break teams down and to play attractive football (which Warburtons is all about).

 

People used this excuse for Walter and Ally when we had to endure the likes of Papac, Wallace, Whittaker, Lafferty, Davis & Edu on the wing rather than the likes of Weiss, Novo & Beasley. Let's not go back to those dark days if you want to watch murderball be my guest I'll happily keep wingers in my team.

[Straight-Edge-Loyal 6,696]

a winger as an option at least would be helpful I'd like to see us bring in an actual left winger and move Barrie wide right.

[Ibroxholm 2,280]

Most refreshing part of watching the team over the last season was seeing us play with wide skilful players.  Yes, we place an emphasise on keeping possession (probably a bit too much for my liking when we are in the attacking zone) but our wide players do give us the option of going at defenders and committing them.

IMO there are few if any teams with a history like Rangers in playing great wingers.  It's a sad day when we depart from that great tradition.

[Bellshill_Bear 1,105]

The old 442 style with 2 wingers and a front pairing of a target man and a fast striker is dated. Mostly used in lower leagues and the spl.  

A 433 is the more modern style adopted Aberdeen are a 442 team  and most of their goals comes from the wings. That being said we are no longer a 442 team, our front players should all be interchangeable and versatile. This is good for is and Scottish football.

as a nation we don't produce athletic or tall players so the focus has switched to improve technique and how to deal with pressure and retain possession. This is the same throughout the academy so players will slot into the first team easier. Scotland will produce players that are more technical and less hit and hope.

rangers academy will bear these fruits in the future I would say in about 3 a 4 years players will start comig through with incredible ability.

it is the way forward

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

Seems to me the emphasis stated often by MW is for players that can play '7,8,10 and 11' - and to do so with skill pace and who comfortable interchange positions when needed during the course of a game.  I don't think that would rule out deploying wide winger(s) to suit the specifics of a game.   But the emphasis seems to be to establish a way of playing that is fast, accurate, penetrating and capable of creating lots of goal scoring opportunities.   Great in my book.

The thing I've often been left wondering when MW talks about players being able to play 7,8,10 and 11 is he rarely (if ever?) mentions 9     I know getting a 'A' goal scoring centre forward who scores goals on a prodigious basis is out of the question (we could not afford it), or even most probably a 'B' or 'C' list striker.  Home grown (Hardie for instance) would need to start demonstrating a higher goal scoring track record to develop the reputation as an out and out 9 (if he and Rangers see that as his future role).  

The point being, for now and at least until we see who else may sign or is loaned before the season starts, I wonder if we are looking to take the Premiership on and compete at the very top - and look to win it - with the basis of the attack being interchangeable 7's, 8s, 10s, and 11s and a style of play that doesn't depend on an out-and-out tall, strong, reasonably pacey, good-in-the-air number 9?  

[Bigsasasfloppyhair 13,310]

why do they need to be wide? 

Surely some of them aren't wee cunts. 

[baxterboy 476]

The name of the game for a long time now is interchange. 

You need to have players wide on the wing.

This is necessary to make more space in the channels.

However, while its critical to have players wide on the wings to create this inside space, the difference today is that wide wing real estate is interchangeable between multiple players.

Wingers today have to be inside lefts or rights or centre forwards - look where McKay scored his goal against the scum. 

Its all about interchange because of the need to create space - left backs have to to be left wingers and on occasion inside lefts.

Like most positions, there's not much place in the game for traditional wingers.

[DarcheVinny 1,003]

If you want to win and keep possession in your opponents half, whilst creating maximal space for central players, it is essential to play high and wide. 

Throughout the season Rangers wide players were not allowed to come infield until the ball was in the final third. This enabled them to easily work from back to front. I have attached evidence of this in operation.

However, as the season drew on, Rangers increasingly struggled to maintain the pace of their build up play, and commonly took up their positions far too high upfield whilst the ball was still deep in our own half. This allowed opposition to simply retreat at leisire and create a 10 mam barrier around the 18 yard line. By the time the wide players were allowed to come off the line, the space had gone.

What we require is a centre back to partner Kiernan who can distribute the ball quickly and accurately. Next season I'd like to think Forrester, Crooks, or another can make a number 10 slot their own, ghosting between the lines without taking space away from the 9, to maximise the space created by wide players hugging touchlines.

In the bottom image Wilson has the ball at CB. In the top image the ball is about to be played in to the box from just outside the D

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

MW plays with three along the top and all three, as I understand his system, need to be inter-changeable.  How many times has he commented on players being able to play 8, 9, 10?  

Although if someone can come up with a Willie Henderson or Willie Johnston, I'd gladly take them.

[The Beast 9,229]

It should all be about having options. We need to be able to switch formations and tactics as the situation demands it. I want MW to move away from his one-dimensional approach and have various different avenues to use on a game by game basis.

I like MW's plan A but if Stubbs can suss it out and negate it, there are better managers with better players against us next season. We must have flexibility.

[Gandhi1872 186]

I think we were at our best this season when the wide players were taking players on and the full-backs were getting to the byline. In the games where the opposition sits deep I think it's very hard to move the ball quick enough to break them down. I think you get more success when players are dribbling and beating people because once the first man is beat, another player is dragged out of position to go to the ball creating more space for our players.  

[Skyson1872 2,923]

1 hour ago, John Eric Bartholomew said:

If you want to win and keep possession in your opponents half, whilst creating maximal space for central players, it is essential to play high and wide. 

Throughout the season Rangers wide players were not allowed to come infield until the ball was in the final third. This enabled them to easily work from back to front. I have attached evidence of this in operation.

However, as the season drew on, Rangers increasingly struggled to maintain the pace of their build up play, and commonly took up their positions far too high upfield whilst the ball was still deep in our own half. This allowed opposition to simply retreat at leisire and create a 10 mam barrier around the 18 yard line. By the time the wide players were allowed to come off the line, the space had gone.

What we require is a centre back to partner Kiernan who can distribute the ball quickly and accurately. Next season I'd like to think Forrester, Crooks, or another can make a number 10 slot their own, ghosting between the lines without taking space away from the 9, to maximise the space created by wide players hugging touchlines.

In the bottom image Wilson has the ball at CB. In the top image the ball is about to be played in to the box from just outside the D

Neil McIlhargey is that you?

[baxterboy 476]

25 minutes ago, The Beast said:

It should all be about having options. We need to be able to switch formations and tactics as the situation demands it. I want MW to move away from his one-dimensional approach and have various different avenues to use on a game by game basis.

I like MW's plan A but if Stubbs can suss it out and negate it, there are better managers with better players against us next season. We must have flexibility.

Its not one dimensional.

And barcelona don't need a plan b either.

Stubbs did not suss us out. We were 10 minutes from lifting the cup with unfit player, without ineligible players, and players who knew they will be no where near Rangers next season.

The system is brilliant and not sussed out. Warbs is in the midst of building and acquiring a squad who can implement it.

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

6 minutes ago, baxterboy said:

Its not one dimensional.

And barcelona don't need a plan b either.

Stubbs did not suss us out. We were 10 minutes from lifting the cup with unfit player, without ineligible players, and players who knew they will be no where near Rangers next season.

The system is brilliant and not sussed out. Warbs is in the midst of building and acquiring a squad who can implement it.

 

Only thing rong with our plan versus the Hivees was that we didn't execute it for the full 90 minutes

[The Beast 9,229]

11 minutes ago, baxterboy said:

Its not anymore one dimensional than barcelona who don't need a plan b either.

Stubbs did not suss us out. We were 10 minutes from lifting the cup with unfit players, without ineligible players, and players who knew they will be no where near Rangers next season.

The system is brilliant and not sussed out. Warbs is in the midst of building and acquiring a squad who can implement it.

Stubbs did I'm afraid as he did in the last league game. So did Wright at St Johnstone in the league cup. World class teams can play a Plan A only but we are very far from that. Our central defence is mostly average at best with a real lack of depth including full back cover, we have no competition for keeper and Foderigham has still to completely prove himself and we don't have a proper striker other than 36yo Miller.

If you genuinely don't think MW needs to up his game for next season then fair enough but when plan A isn't working in any game then a top manager will adapt his team set-up and arise to the challenge. We've seen very little of that from Mr Warburton so far.

[baxterboy 476]

1 hour ago, John Eric Bartholomew said:

If you want to win and keep possession in your opponents half, whilst creating maximal space for central players, it is essential to play high and wide. 

Throughout the season Rangers wide players were not allowed to come infield until the ball was in the final third. This enabled them to easily work from back to front. I have attached evidence of this in operation.

However, as the season drew on, Rangers increasingly struggled to maintain the pace of their build up play, and commonly took up their positions far too high upfield whilst the ball was still deep in our own half. This allowed opposition to simply retreat at leisire and create a 10 mam barrier around the 18 yard line. By the time the wide players were allowed to come off the line, the space had gone.

What we require is a centre back to partner Kiernan who can distribute the ball quickly and accurately. Next season I'd like to think Forrester, Crooks, or another can make a number 10 slot their own, ghosting between the lines without taking space away from the 9, to maximise the space created by wide players hugging touchlines.

In the bottom image Wilson has the ball at CB. In the top image the ball is about to be played in to the box from just outside the D

Even if the winger comes inside when they have 10 men back he still creates space on the wing by drawing his marker inside with him, leaving space for the overlapping back to run into.

[The Beast 9,229]

1 hour ago, John Eric Bartholomew said:

If you want to win and keep possession in your opponents half, whilst creating maximal space for central players, it is essential to play high and wide. 

Throughout the season Rangers wide players were not allowed to come infield until the ball was in the final third. This enabled them to easily work from back to front. I have attached evidence of this in operation.

However, as the season drew on, Rangers increasingly struggled to maintain the pace of their build up play, and commonly took up their positions far too high upfield whilst the ball was still deep in our own half. This allowed opposition to simply retreat at leisire and create a 10 mam barrier around the 18 yard line. By the time the wide players were allowed to come off the line, the space had gone.

What we require is a centre back to partner Kiernan who can distribute the ball quickly and accurately. Next season I'd like to think Forrester, Crooks, or another can make a number 10 slot their own, ghosting between the lines without taking space away from the 9, to maximise the space created by wide players hugging touchlines.

In the bottom image Wilson has the ball at CB. In the top image the ball is about to be played in to the box from just outside the D

I think Waghorn will become the number 10. He's not a penalty box striker by nature and spends much of every game drifting into advanced wide positions. It does mean we really need a recognised number 9 though as KM cannot go on forever.

[johanhentze 14,153]

39 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Stubbs did I'm afraid as he did in the last league game. So did Wright at St Johnstone in the league cup. World class teams can play a Plan A only but we are very far from that. Our central defence is mostly average at best with a real lack of depth including full back cover, we have no competition for keeper and Foderigham has still to completely prove himself and we don't have a proper striker other than 36yo Miller.

If you genuinely don't think MW needs to up his game for next season then fair enough but when plan A isn't working in any game then a top manager will adapt his team set-up and arise to the challenge. We've seen very little of that from Mr Warburton so far.

I know what you are saying, but MW is in the middle of putting down a philosophy and a way of playing. This takes time and will obviously require a higher quality player to do well. We weren't that bad at all last season and will only improve. 

The whole chopping and changing system/formation is actually something Brendan Rodgers started doing too much of at Liverpool and eventually he turned a team, that was playing great football, into one that was playing terrible football.. the reason was, of course, that nobody knew what they were supposed to do anymore.

[The Beast 9,229]

12 minutes ago, johanhentze said:

I know what you are saying, but MW is in the middle of putting down a philosophy and a way of playing. This takes time and will obviously require a higher quality player to do well. We weren't that bad at all last season and will only improve. 

The whole chopping and changing system/formation is actually something Brendan Rodgers started doing too much of at Liverpool and eventually he turned a team, that was playing great football, into one that was playing terrible football.. the reason was, of course, that nobody knew what they were supposed to do anymore.

I wouldn't use Rodgers as a role model, I'd rather MW was more like Mourinho or Sir Alex both of whom can turn a game with a tactical change or a substitution. If anything I see MW more like Wenger who stubbornly sticks to the same system even when it's obviously not working in a particular game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of MW but he's not the finished product by a long shot, I just think he needs to add some flexibility to his approach to adapt to different circumstances.

[johanhentze 14,153]

1 minute ago, The Beast said:

I wouldn't use Rodgers as a role model, I'd rather MW was more like Mourinho or Sir Alex both of whom can turn a game with a tactical change or a substitution. If anything I see MW more like Wenger who stubbornly sticks to the same system even when it's obviously not working in a particular game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of MW but he's not the finished product by a long shot, I just think he needs to add some flexibility to his approach to adapt to different circumstances.

Im t´no trying to say he should use Rodgers as a role model... I used Rodgers as someone who went a bit crazy with chopping and changing whenever something didn't work... he did it to the extent that nobody knew what the fuck they were suppose to do.. 

MW is by no means the finished article, as you said. I trust him to learn from mistakes, but I just think he hasn't really had the means to change games like he wants. He will be much better equipped to do this next season. 

I also believe that we have seen far more than "one approach" from this team. I think we see far more that the Plan A all the time.

[The Beast 9,229]

Just now, johanhentze said:

Im t´no trying to say he should use Rodgers as a role model... I used Rodgers as someone who went a bit crazy with chopping and changing whenever something didn't work... he did it to the extent that nobody knew what the fuck they were suppose to do.. 

MW is by no means the finished article, as you said. I trust him to learn from mistakes, but I just think he hasn't really had the means to change games like he wants. He will be much better equipped to do this next season. 

I also believe that we have seen far more than "one approach" from this team. I think we see far more that the Plan A all the time.

I hope you're right bud.

[johanhentze 14,153]

Just now, The Beast said:

I hope you're right bud.

Im pretty confident