Central Midfield Positions - Game 1 & 2.

[BridgeIsBlue 66,612]

1 minute ago, STEPPS BOY said:

Our highly qualified coaches and this system have won us not a single trophy in Scotland.

Just glossed over that part 

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

53 minutes ago, Swally said:

if a player runs from A to B

A----------------------------------------------B

His average will be bang in the middle of that?

So I don't understand how the analysis tells us anything

I'm probably just thick as fuck

It’s the average position that the player touches the ball rather than their overall position 

[GersInCanada 7,775]

As fans we don't see the need for 2 defensive midfielders against dross like St Mirren. A view that I share.

Gerrard's priority however is clean sheets with our more attacking minded players coming up with a match winning strike or two which as an approach is very difficult to argue against. No matter who we are playing.

[British_Empire 9,648]

Just now, GersInCanada said:

As fans we don't see the need for 2 defensive midfielders against dross like St Mirren. A view that I share.

Gerrard's priority however is clean sheets with our more attacking minded players coming up with a match winning strike or two which as an approach is very difficult to argue against. No matter who we are playing.

I said myself after the Aberdeen game that we're going to be more difficult to beat this season IMO.

I don't know why I think that, because the set-up and shape of the team is the exact same but it's just a look we've got about us. 

That can change easily, though. A lot of good work can be undone in one game or one moment of madness.

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

4 minutes ago, British_Empire said:

I said myself after the Aberdeen game that we're going to be more difficult to beat this season IMO.

I don't know why I think that, because the set-up and shape of the team is the exact same but it's just a look we've got about us. 

That can change easily, though. A lot of good work can be undone in one game or one moment of madness.

We’ve always been pretty difficult to beat/score against in fairness. We conceded 19 in the league last season, same as celtic. Scored 25 less though 

[British_Empire 9,648]

3 minutes ago, eskbankloyal said:

We’ve always been pretty difficult to beat/score against in fairness. We conceded 19 in the league last season, same as celtic. Scored 25 less though 

Aye I thought that - it's the goal scoring side of things that tends to let us down.

We are a good team upto a point - but even yesterday (and I say that happy with a 3-0 win) there was the usual tippy tappy crap, screaming out for someone to put their laces through the ball in and around the box.

Hopefully when Itten and Roofe settle in that will sort that issue.

[They Gnu 11,553]

3 minutes ago, eskbankloyal said:

We’ve always been pretty difficult to beat/score against in fairness. We conceded 19 in the league last season, same as celtic. Scored 25 less though 

25 is a lot

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

Just now, British_Empire said:

Aye I thought that - it's the goal scoring side of things that tends to let us down.

We are a good team upto a point - but even yesterday (and I say that happy with a 3-0 win) there was the usual tippy tappy crap, screaming out for someone to put their laces through the ball in and around the box.

Hopefully when Itten and Roofe settle in that will sort that issue.

The Kamara/Jack thing is probably less of an issue when the 3rd midfielder is playing so advanced, like yesterday. We should always be looking to upgrade every position though. 

I agree with your point though, our decision making in the final third is generally pretty poor however when you create 30odd shots in a game you’ll typically score at least at couple 

[beararse 6,386]

I’d be more concerned if we were playing 2 central midfielders and neither presented their average position as central midfield.
 

 

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

3 minutes ago, They Gnu said:

25 is a lot

After our win at the Piggery, they had scored two more than us having played a game more. When you consider they scored 12 in their first two games... the difference between us & them post winter break was ridiculous. 

[beararse 6,386]

14 minutes ago, British_Empire said:

17 minutes ago, GersInCanada said:

 

I said myself after the Aberdeen game that we're going to be more difficult to beat this season IMO

Were you arguing with yourself? 🤣

[Creampuff 22,628]

This moan about the defensive midfielders only makes sense if you consider each position individually. Proper analysis needs to consider the impact of each position on one another. 

Aribo basically played off the striker and Borna/Tav were essentially wingers. 

You can’t do that and have a bunch of attacking players in the middle of the park. This is real football not Garth and his fucking team of the week.

[British_Empire 9,648]

3 minutes ago, beararse said:

Were you arguing with yourself? 🤣

Might aswell ffs seem to argue with everyone else 

[coopsleftboot 5,512]

The two central, deeper midfielders are there for a number of reasons; it always give a reliable, less risky deeper out ball when it's simply too congested, gives the opportunity to dictate the play, draw opponents forward  to open up space and it's easier to spread or switch play, especially when our full-backs are offering the width against deeper lying teams.  Taking one of them out of there and pushing further up just adds to the congestion and makes space harder to find, I actually think it would make it harder to play, find space and improve our goal tally.   If your players are good enough, and importantly, quick thinking enough,  then it's a good system.   I like it....Sunday showed we should be capable of totally dominating most teams with that system, but it maybe needs to be a little bit snappier....but that also requires the players in front of you having clever movement to find the spaces.

[STEPPS BOY 74,137]

2 minutes ago, coopsleftboot said:

The two central, deeper midfielders are there for a number of reasons; it always give a reliable, less risky deeper out ball when it's simply too congested, gives the opportunity to dictate the play, draw opponents forward  to pen up space and it's easier to spread or switch play, especially when our full-backs are offering the width against deeper lying teams.  Taking one of them out of there and pushing further up just adds to the congestion and makes space harder to find, I actually think it would make it harder to play, find space and improve our goal tally.   If your players are good enough, and importantly, quick thinking enough,  then it's a good system.   I like it....Sunday showed we should be capable of totally dominating most teams with that system, but it maybe needs to be a little bit snappier....but that also requires the players in front of you having clever movement to find the spaces.

Amazing how the tarriers are so successful when they don’t play with two deep lying midfielders.

 

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,877]

1 minute ago, coopsleftboot said:

The two central, deeper midfielders are there for a number of reasons; it always give a reliable, less risky deeper out ball when it's simply too congested, gives the opportunity to dictate the play, draw opponents forward  to pen up space and it's easier to spread or switch play, especially when our full-backs are offering the width against deeper lying teams.  Taking one of them out of there and pushing further up just adds to the congestion and makes space harder to find, I actually think it would make it harder to play, find space and improve our goal tally.   If your players are good enough, and importantly, quick thinking enough,  then it's a good system.   I like it....Sunday showed we should be capable of totally dominating most teams with that system, but it maybe needs to be a little bit snappier....but that also requires the players in front of you having clever movement to find the spaces.

That’s one of the things I don’t understand about the criticism.

Adding another body further up the park is as likely to just overcrowd an already overcrowded area as it is to make us more creative or give us more chances of scoring.

Jack in particular should try and get forward a bit more when the opportunity opens up, but I don’t think it’s this necessity that people were trying to make it out to be, even more so when you look at how advanced Aribo is.

[coopsleftboot 5,512]

5 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

Amazing how the tarriers are so successful when they don’t play with two deep lying midfielders.

 

Like Sunday?  Not sure they had a shot from inside the box?

Anyway, just a different system, and one they've been working on for a good while with, let's face it, a stronger squad.  Their rotational play is better rehearsed too...when you've been doing it for a number of years, with mostly the same players then of course it's going to be slicker.  Which is why I said maybe our two could be a bit snappier...but 28 attempts at goal on Sunday and 12 on target suggests it worked ok.

[beararse 6,386]

5 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

Amazing how the tarriers are so successful when they don’t play with two deep lying midfielders.

 

I’m guessing all that money and little competition helps too.

Plus, I doubt they’d have been as successful if we hadn’t had our troubles. 

[graeme_4 34,617]

It’s not necessarily that we can’t have two deep lying midfielders, but more that the three options we do have wouldn’t know a forward pass if it hit them in the face. 

We must be quicker going from defence to attack when these diddy park the bus teams come out slightly. Jack and Davis (and Kamara to a degree) are painfully slow at it, almost always going very safe and very negative. 

Not a Roy Keane fan, but read a story about him absolutely slaughtering Rio the first time he trained with Man U because he took the safe option out to a full back rather than take responsibility and make the positive pass. 

Its more better quality, rather than the system that’s the issue. 

[Born Sinner 298]

25 minutes ago, Creampuff said:

This moan about the defensive midfielders only makes sense if you consider each position individually. Proper analysis needs to consider the impact of each position on one another. 

Aribo basically played off the striker and Borna/Tav were essentially wingers. 

You can’t do that and have a bunch of attacking players in the middle of the park. This is real football not Garth and his fucking team of the week.

Tav and Barisic haven’t been playing as far up the park as people make out. Recently they haven’t been much more offensive than any teams full backs. 
 

We definitely don’t need two players like Jack and Kamara sitting quite so deep and being quite so neutral in their play.

[STEPPS BOY 74,137]

2 minutes ago, coopsleftboot said:

Like Sunday?  Not sure they had a shot from inside the box?

Anyway, just a different system, and one they've been working on for a good while with, let's face it, a stronger squad.  Their rotational play is better rehearsed too...when you've been doing it for a number of years, with mostly the same players then of course it's going to be slicker.  Which is why I said maybe our two could be a bit snappier...but 28 attempts at goal on Sunday and 12 on target suggests it worked ok.

This isn’t a new team for us , the bulk have been together for two seasons now.

They play their two centre halves and Brown, the rest do as they please including their full backs.

As others have said, it’s the difference in goal return  that has made them better and what will define this season again, possibly even goal difference.

 

 

[Swally 6,289]

I'm glad other people are having a problem with this analysis, thought I was being thick 

 

[16BlueSherbert90 19,224]

We always do well beginning of season...it's the second half that gets messy.  I guess we will find out further on with the new players settling in also. 

[Broxi 11,505]

The diagram is not showing what people think it is showing. People are using it as a way of saying "look, Jack and Kamara are doing the exact same thing. one of them is redundant" which is not what the graph means. Both averaged the same position sure but that doesn't mean they are both occupying the same space at the same time. And as already mentioned you still have Morelos, Aribo, Hagi, Kent, Barisic and Tavernier all pushing forward. 

I'm not saying it's perfect or right, but it's certainly the new buzz topic people are jumping on to complain about. The problem isn't the positioning, it's the personnel, and we already know Gerrard knows this and is looking for a new central midfielder so I personally don't know why it keeps getting brought up every 2 seconds as if nobody knows about this yet

[Fergie_6 1,078]

2 hours ago, BridgeIsBlue said:

Is this absolutely necessary? 

What a lot of pish this is, if cunts are moaning about the 2 centre mids, then what about Aribo, Hagi & Kent.