New deals / loans made permanent

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, MrMckee said:

Not on the list but what's the issue with souttar? Honestly what a complete farce of a signing 

Free, good player when not injured and Scottish trained.

Had he not been Scottish trained, I doubt we would have been in for him.

There is a severe lack of Scottish trained players who are good enough and in our budget.

Souttar was a gamble that has basically not paid off.

What Scottish trained player would you have brought in to fill that spot in the squad though? Talking probably about £3m at least for one who would be good enough to sit on the bench never mind command a starting slot.

[MrMckee 3,424]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Free, good player when not injured and Scottish trained.

Had he not been Scottish trained, I doubt we would have been in for him.

There is a severe lack of Scottish trained players who are good enough and in our budget.

Souttar was a gamble that has basically not paid off.

What Scottish trained player would you have brought in to fill that spot in the squad though? Talking probably about £3m at least for one who would be good enough to sit on the bench never mind command a starting slot.

What's actually wrong with him though? I didn't realise we 'had' to bring in a Scottish player 🤔 I would of looked In another market like Croatia or Eastern Europe. We've played against plenty teams in the Europa who would have had a decent enough CB to pick up for around 3mil. Just seems like he was the cheap lazy option and it's backfired on us as always injured. We need to stop signing crocks!!

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

5 minutes ago, MrMckee said:

What's actually wrong with him though? I didn't realise we 'had' to bring in a Scottish player 🤔 I would of looked In another market like Croatia or Eastern Europe. We've played against plenty teams in the Europa who would have had a decent enough CB to pick up for around 3mil. Just seems like he was the cheap lazy option and it's backfired on us as always injured. We need to stop signing crocks!!

We could have, but we couldn't register them for Europe without dropping someone else.

You have a 25 man Euro squad.

8 players have to be Scottish trained. With 4 of those trained at the club.

We also signed a £4m CB with no real negative injury history in the summer.

 

[MrMckee 3,424]

2 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

We could have, but we couldn't register them for Europe without dropping someone else.

You have a 25 man Euro squad.

8 players have to be Scottish trained. With 4 of those trained at the club.

 

Fair enough, either way it's not looking good at the minute. I'm still not convinced our back room staff know what the hell their doing with the players! Can't remember a time we had so many injures and players out for so long.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, MrMckee said:

Fair enough, either way it's not looking good at the minute. I'm still not convinced our back room staff know what the hell their doing with the players! Can't remember a time we had so many injures and players out for so long.

I agree we are a shambles, but the lack of decent homegrown talent does kinda justify the gamble on Souttar to a degree.

I would rather they would have went out and got Doig(unless he is absolutely rabid, which I think he might be) or Ferguson though.

I don't think either are great, but would have given us a more reliable option.

[MrMckee 3,424]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I agree we are a shambles, but the lack of decent homegrown talent does kinda justify the gamble on Souttar to a degree.

I would rather they would have went out and got Doig(unless he is absolutely rabid, which I think he might be) or Ferguson though.

I don't think either are great, but would have given us a more reliable option.

Yea agree, we could of got a player in another position to fill that gap. CB we was light on really with helander being a long term thing (although not sure that was known completely in Jan). The fact we didn't bring him in January though is a bit strange. Obviously didn't want him that bad to pay a little extra to hearts and maybe that half a season might have worked out better. Either way the people in charge of these decisions keep making the wrong ones, whether you can put it down to 'bad luck' or not I don't know. Seems to be too many players injured or playing well below themselves to put it down as bad luck. Heads need to roll IMO.

[Wullies_bowly_legs 3,811]

Must admit Sands and Devine only for me and maybe Tillman depending on form.

In Sands I really believe there is a good CDM in there who could do a job for us. Something we’ve been lacking for a few years now. Even the experience he’s getting now as a centre back will help him   
develop. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

1 minute ago, Wullies_bowly_legs said:

Must admit Sands and Devine only for me and maybe Tillman depending on form.

In Sands I really believe there is a good CDM in there who could do a job for us. Something we’ve been lacking for a few years now. Even the experience he’s getting now as a centre back will help him   
develop. 

Don't really see it with Sands to be honest.

I want to, I just don't.

Not imposing enough to be a good CB, not technical enough to be good in midfield.

A slightly better Ross McCrorie.

Worth having as a squad player who can fill in in an emergency in a few roles, but wouldn't be wanting to spend the supposed £5m on.

[Number5 2,122]

How much are Sands and Tillman going to cost? Have they been loaned with an option to buy price?

Devine probably.

Kent and Alfie dont merit a new deal but the only ones on the list who could actually command a fee.

Jack will be probably get an extension.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, Number5 said:

How much are Sands and Tillman going to cost? Have they been loaned with an option to buy price?

Devine probably.

Kent and Alfie dont merit a new deal but the only ones on the list who could actually command a fee.

Jack will be probably get an extension.

Sands is apparently £5m.

Tillman I have heard anything from £1.5m to £6m.

Tillman at £1.5m is a no brainer. At £6m it's a far harder call.

[TheKingObv 10,647]

7 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Sands is apparently £5m.

Tillman I have heard anything from £1.5m to £6m.

Tillman at £1.5m is a no brainer. At £6m it's a far harder call.

Tillman at £6 million is a no brainer too - in terms of saying no.

[Number5 2,122]

49 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Sands is apparently £5m.

Tillman I have heard anything from £1.5m to £6m.

Tillman at £1.5m is a no brainer. At £6m it's a far harder call.

Wouldnt touch either for the top end.

 

[Jelavic191 4,474]

12 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

The Scottish trained thing is often overlooked, but we do need to watch our numbers here.

Ideally I would be looking to move the above on and replace with other players who qualify.

Doig, Ferguson and Gauld are all playing abroad and we should be keeping tabs on them.

Probably the only reason Souttar was signed given his injury record.

 

Hadn’t read the whole thread to see yous are already talking about souttar. 

[MayboleLoyal_atb 3,718]

We are a certainty to give jack a new deal. Wasn’t it reported talks had already started?

[GetToTheChoppa 6,873]

Pretty sure Tillman fee was confirmed at 6 million euro, about 5.2 million pounds.

Wouldn't be paying that on current form.

Maybe once Koeman comes in his form will improve.

 

[the cry was no 3,035]

35 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I agree we are a shambles, but the lack of decent homegrown talent does kinda justify the gamble on Souttar to a degree.

I would rather they would have went out and got Doig(unless he is absolutely rabid, which I think he might be) or Ferguson though.

I don't think either are great, but would have given us a more reliable option.

Both Doig and Ferguson went to Italy for £3m.

You can be absolutely certain that neither the sheep nor Hibs would have sold them to us for the same as they 1) hate us and  2) know the situation with the association trained market

We had 3 association trained (Jack, Arfield and Wright) so only really had room for 1 more.

Given his injury record I'd doubt Souttar will be on a fortune, tops £8k so a 4 year deal including wages will amount to £1.6m with nothing up front to affect our UEFA FFP numbers. When we signed him he had missed 2 games with a knock all season and was in the Scotland squad and I personally thought it was a clever bit of business. The week after he signed a pre-contract he got injured and has played about 5 times since. He's a good player when fit and might still come good if we get lucky.

For Doig or Ferguson we'd have been £4m+ fee and £10k a week (they'll be on that in Italy) meaning £6m over a 4 year deal. The issue is that neither would be starters if everyone is fit and therefor they didn't represent value imo. 

There's not many association trained players playing in Scotland that catch the eye, represent value etc. Barrie MacKay was available on a fee last Jan and might have been worth a gamble - for me he's better than Wright

 

[STEPPS BOY 74,032]

We shouldn’t be paying any significant fee on a player unless we think there’s a significant chance on a resale for bigger money.

Sands for 4-5 million then let’s be honest we aren’t selling on for significantly more than that.

 

Remember Munich would also have a buy back on Tillman so that for me would have an impact on any decision on him.

[aird 3,780]

Sands and Tillman, assuming the future fees aren't too high. 

They're the only ones with any sell on value, plus their still young enough to become regular starters for the US national team. 

[onlythestrongsurvive 1,007]

17 hours ago, graeme_4 said:

Load of deals up in the summer. Are we keeping anyone?

Can you put all up on the first post for a better idea and discussion mate

cheers

[onlythestrongsurvive 1,007]

Tilman if about £2m

Arfield possibly as still only one who breaks from midfield into the box and good option at times

the rest can gtf

[.Williamson. 82,478]

3 minutes ago, onlythestrongsurvive said:

Tilman if about £2m

Arfield possibly as still only one who breaks from midfield into the box and good option at times

the rest can gtf

@ForeverAndEver had been saying the same about Arfield and everyone jumped on him

[onlythestrongsurvive 1,007]

2 minutes ago, .Williamson. said:

@ForeverAndEver had been saying the same about Arfield and everyone jumped on him

never seen that but he's right - was the only one out of the three this season I'd have kept and been good value

[bassettger 368]

With a better manager both Kent and Morelos would be good players. Tillman might make it. McGregor, Airfield and Davis have been superb for Rangers but are past it now. Sands is just not good enough.

[ForeverAndEver 71,570]

24 minutes ago, .Williamson. said:

@ForeverAndEver had been saying the same about Arfield and everyone jumped on him

 my favourite player

[Johnnyem 238]

None of them, it's time for a new broom and a total rebuild. I know that is easier said than done but we do need to take drastic measures in my opinion.